Rename: Plainsong

This wiki page defines "plainsong" as "speech used as song," which disagrees with the definition used by The Other Wiki. The line (just removed) saying that "examples go back at least as far as the 10th century Gregorian chants" is only valid for The Other Wiki's definition.

It's a valid trope, but needs a title which doesn't have a recognized meaning highly inconsistent with its definition.

Support rename. You're right, this isn't what plainsong is.

Perhaps it could be named Speech Song?

edited 17th Apr '11 4:41:40 PM by EmilyG

In my defence, "plainsong" is the term I learned in my music classes for this technique. If anyone knows of another name for it, then I certainly support a rename.

I've taken music classes too, and "plainsong" has never meant anything other than Gregorian chant. I'm not sure what the official name is for this trope, though.

Speech Song is good.

Speech Song or Speech Singing would be good. This is definitely not what music dictionaries call "plainsong".

I think an alternate titles crowner may be necessary later, but just to be safe, I set up a single proposition one here first.

From Dictionary.com:

Pre-existing term with a completely different meaning? 0 wicks and 0 inbounds? Yeah, I'd be all for renaming this one.

As the new title, I'd favour Speech Song.

Support for rename unanimous. Alternative title crowner created.

'Rename or not' crowner locked and unhooked after three weeks open, with a final tally of 14-0 in favor if renaming.

Alt Names crowner hooked.

Spoken Word is the official name for the genre for the record.

The key seems to be "speaking as if naturally", but our page is talking about things like the sort of chant-y not really-singing-but-not-natural-speech that Rex Harrison was famous for — like this or this.

Speaking To The Music, maybe?

The Other Wiki's page for "Spoken word" music says that this "did not evolve until the late 1980s and early 1990s," so it seems to be something different from what we have here.

For that matter, Spoken Word in Music means something entirely different from both "Spoken Word" and the trope under discussion. Should that trope be renamed too?

That song is in Spoken Word style. The page is write in that it's often used in musicals because it's simpler than teaching them how to really sing. But it's also it's own genre of music. Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen) is a good example of the style.

Note that the do appear to be the same exact style. It's odd that the Other Wiki seems to think this is a recent phenomena, but then again, they don't really study culture the way we do.

edited 22nd May '11 5:48:04 PM by shimaspawn

But they're only the "same exact style" in that they involve speaking over musical accompaniment. Most examples of this have a specifically notated rhythm.

edited 22nd May '11 5:56:16 PM by Prfnoff

The involve singing in a musical rhythm over music. In what ways are they different save for tempo and subject matter, neither of which matter for the genre descriptions.

He['s not "speaking in a natural style" He's deliberately varying his pitch, tone, speed, and rhythm to match the music,and in some places, singing a few notes.

Howl is Spoken Word. He's not trying to sing. He's not changing his voice to accomodate a melody.

The lyrics from My Fair Lady are written in verse closely fitted to the accompaniment which has an actual melody built into it, whereas your example is prose poetry loosely draped over the accompaniment. It's true that spoken-word poetry performance predates the 1980s: Anna Russell's Affectionate Parody "Poetry in the Cellar" comes to mind, but there is a big difference between that and what I'm talking about.

edited 22nd May '11 6:09:20 PM by Prfnoff

Howl is not Spoken Word as the music genre defines it. It's one of the influences to the musical style, but it's not Spoken Word. Punk Rock Girl has spoken word versus but the chorus is sung. It needs to have music and an attempt to follow it along with variations in rhythm.

edited 22nd May '11 8:38:44 PM by shimaspawn

I wonder if the problem with setting on a name comes from the continuum we have between speaking and singing.

• Speech
• Spoken poetry without music
• Gorillaz, "Fire Coming Out Of The Monkey's Head": Dennis Hopper speaking poetry. It's almost conventional poetry reading but there is a relationship with the music.
• Johnny Cash, "The Man Comes Around". Spoken, but with a strong continuous relationship with the music.
• Rex Harrison, My Fair Lady - "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face". Freely mixes half-sung, and spoken elements in the same line.
• Soul Coughing, "Blue-eyed Devil". Spoken, half-sung, sung and whatever the heck it is that Mike Doughty is doing.
• Soul Coughing "I Just Want the Girl in the Blue Dress", speech-inflected singing?
• Lots of other stuff.
• Eurythmics "There Must Be An Angel": Sung.
• Singing

Maybe we should just have an article on the rich variations we've got on that scale rather than drawing a hard line.

edited 22nd May '11 10:08:48 PM by Camacan

Spoken Word has won. I'm moving the trope there.