Too Specific.: Short Anime Movie

There are Western ones too.

I am completely, utterly, and thoroughly done with Sola Sonica and 2D

And thats addressed in the description.

This page really does seem to be stagnating and it's not attracting Western examples because it just sounds like it's an anime trope. While they may not be released in theatres, most made for home movie Western animation films would fall under this trope description if it wasn't so anime focused.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Isn't this only an anime trope though? From the first paragraph, it seems like the page was discussing short animated movies released in theaters. Aside from Pixar shorts and the occasional film festival work, I can't think of any short Western animated movies that get released in theaters.

I laugh in the face of suffering.

Yeah, I admit I'm kind of puzzled as to what this trope even is. Especially since we already have Short Film.

If it's "Short animated film released in theaters", then I agree those haven't really existed in the US, at least, since around the 1940s. But that's also kind of The Same But More Specific to Short Film. I think?

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

This page is kinda an Aggregate thing most series adapted anime movies are stupidly short 30-60 minutes usually no more than that (Haruhi's is the only one I can think of that is longer) price for blu ray 90$

Negima movie 40 minutes, Hayate No Gotoku 60 minutes, Dragon Ball Z's 13 movies 30-60 minutes, Pretty Cure All Stars 60 minutes. Most actually aim for 1 hour and that's it.

edited 14th Sep '11 11:45:57 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

As a natural lumper I say it would be nice if we can lump it under Short Films, a kind of Internal Subtrope, but I don't know much about this format.

edited 14th Sep '11 11:45:10 AM by Catalogue

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

Yeah, I admit I'm not seeing what this trope covers that isn't already covered by Short Film or OVA. Maybe we could just add a footnote in the Anime/Manga section on whatever page we add these examples to that films based on existing Anime/Manga are almost always short, then make this a redirect.

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

As a splitter myself I would say this needs a rewrite and get known the examples list is stupidly small for how common it is. Only one of those examples I brought up is even on the page. (The Detective Conan movies are the same way IIRC, they are shorter than most TV cases.)

(On my phone ATM or I would edit more into the page.)

But really I don't care much where but it needs to get known.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

I'm not a lumper or a splitter, it just depends on whether it makes sense to have a separate page or not. To me the Anime length thing seems more like just trivia, not a big enough difference for a whole new trope.

Plus the Short Film page looks like it could use some love; surely there must be more of them out there than just that. I can think of a few possible You Tube examples that aren't on the list, although I don't know if the 20-minutes thing is a hard rule or not.

edited 14th Sep '11 12:43:50 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

Well these make the theaters at that length not You Tube, full price ticket, it's a hot-button issue among some fans and critics. When one long one came around it was criticized for being too long (a little over 2 hours).

A You Tube anime or Direct-to-DVD anything is an OVA not a movie unless it's in the theaters. (there are a few exceptions)

edited 14th Sep '11 12:58:13 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Except that our Short Film trope includes all films regardless of theatrical release, and not all You Tube short films are animated.

Basically, I'm asking whether "theatrical release" makes a big enough difference in the tropes and themes of a short film for it to merit being the basis of a separate trope.

edited 14th Sep '11 1:02:27 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

Labeling them Short Film really does not fit for this. Short Film is far far too broad, to be an anime movie it has to be in the theaters or it's something else entirely and not called a film or a movie, An OAV, putting OA Vs in there too would be messy because OA Vs are just a bigger budget episode of an already aired series or an original miniseries.

Also the way Short Film is written is just completely different as well as it's an index almost a genre. Short Anime Movie really is just a trope. It really would be a garbled mess of terminology and stuff with different crap, plus we would have to up the time on Short Film.

Now some of the anime movies do have the shorts at the start a film for padding like Short Film talks about those might fit that, off the top of my head one of the first Pokemon movies, one of the Naruto movies, and the Negima - Hayate No Gotoku double feature with the Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei short at the end. Those might fit of what Short Film talks about maybe.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Sorry, but that still doesn't explain to me how a short anime film isn't still a short film. What's the difference in tropes/themes/etc. between a anime film that isn't released in theaters and one that is?

Right now your explanation seems to boil down to "It's different just because it's anime".

Though you are making a case for possible expanding/rewriting the definition of Short Film, as there's plenty of short films that are entirely stand-alone and not intended to be padding or theatrical previews or whichever.

I'm now remembering the TV series Exposure as a good example of this outside of You Tube.

edited 14th Sep '11 1:51:21 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

They arnt billed as a Short Film for one they are just an Anime Movie that happens to be made short in length.

Short Film is pretty much a genre or a specific type of movie, people make them and call them that.

And I am really not trying to make a big case for one or the other... Just saying that right now as it stands Short Film does not fit all of the Short Anime Movies which are theatrical only and just end up under 60 min. (Expanding it from Theatrical only will make it a mess as 22 minute episode length OAV are a dime a dozen.)

Edit: The writeup covers some of what I was talking about in my last post the double feature, and shorts which would fit Short Film the normal movies that were just short wouldn't fit a merge, Also it covers OAV s there but I see only one OAV in the examples and that is Azumanga Daioh's web movie one if those rare ones actually called a movie.

edited 14th Sep '11 2:34:59 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

It's not a genre, though. A short film is just a film... that's short. The only real criterion I'm aware of is that it's less than 40 minutes long. (Although this varies a wee bit; for something like the Hugo Award, say, a "short presentation" is one that's less than 90 minutes.)

So I admit I just don't understand how Short Anime Movie isn't just The Same But More Specific. I mean, Direct-to-DVD and OVA are at least established marketing terms and thus deserve a separate trope if only to define them.

edited 14th Sep '11 2:41:15 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

An anime film is 60 minutes or less. (most less than that and it is rare when they go over that) industry standard for animated movies in the US is around 90 minutes. That's the point of the trope is trying to make really, Anime movies are shorter than American movies like Disney or Pixar theatrical movies.

Outside that stuff the others might be merged into Short Film.

Maybe move all the Shorts and Double Feature type examples to Short Film leave the standard Theatrical movie examples here and eliminate all the episode length OA Vs?

A standard OAV will be 22-24 minutes (length of an episode) no way these would count it's just an episode on DVD.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

See, that's the thing though, I don't know if the length actually is set in stone for a short film.

Looking it up, the Oscars set it as 40 minutes or less, the Screen Actors Guild sets it as 80 minutes or less, the Hugos set it as 90 minutes or less, and actual theatrical releases also define it as 60 minutes or less (though 80 is more the normal low-limit for a full feature film).

edited 14th Sep '11 3:07:45 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

Is there any reason we shouldn't define this as any short movie(we can hash out a yardstick later) that's presented as a main theatrical feature? We can note that it's effectively exclusive to anime and toku, but I don't see a reason it's instrinsicly limited to them.

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan

Well, the thing is, if we do define this as "any short film with a theatrical release", then while there's no reason to outright limit it to anime, almost all examples are going to be that aside from pre-1940 examples.

Other than the very occasional 60-minute children's film and maybe Pixar Shorts, there have been very few Western short theatrical films since the 1940s that I can think of.

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

Hmm that might be why when the first Digimon movie aired in the US they combined the first 3 movies into one big one, with added material to make them related to each other, And why the Haruhi movie actually got a limited theatrical release and other movies didn't.... Because it was longer than 80 minutes? (It's over 2 hours.)

Anime movies would not qualify as a Full Feature Film here but over there it's fine? That kind of thing this trope tries to talk about but it gets lost and goes into OA Vs and such then ends. That would be a good trope that would be related to Short Film.

I don't really care on the title.

edited 14th Sep '11 3:31:33 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Pretty much over here, if it's shorter than 75-80 minutes, it's going to be hard to drum up enough of an audience to be worth releasing theatrically, since it's going to be viewed as not worth the money. So usually theatrical movies shorter than that are only for really kiddie stuff that's not supposed to be blockbuster anyway. (The latest Winnie the Pooh movie was 60 minutes, IIRC.) Otherwise, it's released Direct-to-DVD.

And the practice of showing short films as padding or a double feature is very rare over here nowadays too... Pixar movies are really the only thing I'm coming to mind off-hand where you will see it.

edited 14th Sep '11 3:35:06 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

I don't think the Pixar shorts would count for this trope - unless I've missed something, they're always run before the feature, rather than being part of a double feature(ie, you get a ticket to Wall E, not Wall E and Presto).

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan

I was just pointing out that it's rare to see short films in Western theater nowadays in any capacity.

edited 14th Sep '11 6:45:47 PM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)

I don't see a problem with keeping this as a page explaining a particular characteristic of how a certain type of movie tends to be made in a specific country. After all, we have British Brevity which talks about a particular characteristic of British TV shows.