Scott Adams, Men's Rights-- Misogyny?

The attitude has existed for a while. But it's only recently that a name has been developed for it.

I've heard the the Dudebro Creed, "I'm not a bigot, I hate everyone equally" before. Hell, I gleefully reveled in it during college.

Doubtless I'm going to regret it, but what are those categories as you understand them? Biotruthy I found on urban dictionary, with two competing definitions, I'm not sure who you mean by "internet sceptics". I'm aware of MGTOW and the Religious Wrong, however.

'Biotruths' are dubious pseudoscientific justifications for bigotry (particularly sexism, but racism as well), typically based on the similarly dubious field of evolutionary psychology. The most famous example is the idea that Pink Means Feminine because women were gatherers whilst men hunted, and women like pink because berries are pink. There's obviously a whole shedload of things wrong with this, but the most obvious is that until the start of the twentieth century, pink was a male colour in most European cultures. The term 'biotruth' is mockingly taken from the infamous Gor series, where it's used to describe the biological reasons why all women want to be docile sex slaves. Biotruths are particularly popular amongst the Internet's atheist-sceptic communities (most notably r/atheism), where they are used as an appropriately sciency justification for the embedded sexism there (as an example of said sexism, see all the horrible shit that bubbled up after Rebecca Watson's Elevatorgate incident).

This is glorious, and relevant as well: Apparently, the social welfare state not only improves the lives of women, but makes them immune to sleazy pick-up techniques.

*sigh* I used to believe in that stuff, too.

Yeah. Past!Zeal was a piece of work. Even moreso than Present!Zeal.

edited 28th Oct '13 11:54:24 AM by KingZeal

@Iaculus

Ah, I see what you mean. I'm aware of the phenomenon but not the terminology. Sexism in atheism has been even more tellingly exposed with the recent set of allegations surrounding a certain individual in the community (who is firing C 'n' Ds at people, so I'll keep quiet here). Still, some of us internet skeptics hang around nice people like PZ Meyers.

edited 28th Oct '13 12:03:48 PM by Achaemenid

Well, the notion of "biotruths" and the criticism of it is often a wee bit of projection. See, the reason why that concept is wrong is that it plays heavily into a notion of gender essentialism. That one's gender is both highly predictive and prescriptive. The thing is, it's not JUST biology that can lead to gender essentialism. One can believe that social/cultural factors result in gender being highly predictive and prescriptive.

Elevator Gate was actually a good example of this at play, as there was the claim that all women want the same thing (or should want the same thing), and when it was pointed out that this wasn't true, the women who pointed this out were jumped on. That's what started that fight (as someone who at various points was on both sides of the divide).

The alternative view..isn't "biotruths"...it's that our personality is a result of a complex mix of biology, social input and cultural input. There's a wide spectrum of experiences and wants and this should be respected. There are certain things that may be common..but they're not universal by any means.

Unfortunately as is all too common in these things the middle and the moderate are often disappeared. This serves to make the trolling more effective, unfortunately.

I used to have an interested in evolutionary psychology, but I think the difference between the way I approached it and so many others did is that for me, it was an interesting interpretation of how personal biases and desires can subtly influence what I think are rational, intelligent, and unbiased decisions. Others, on the other hand, see evo psych as an excuse for why things are "the natural order" or why it's not necessary to try.

It's like telling a teenager, for example, that they can't make rational decisions because hormones cloud their judgment. If this isn't dismissed outright, some teens might think "Oh wow, I never thought of it that way—I'll try to be more responsible" while others might think "Oh well, if that's the case, I have the perfect excuse for doing stupid things!"

If you're told you can't make rational decisions because your hormones cloud your judgement, then suddenly all decisions you've ever made, good and bad, are due to hormones and not thought, and suddenly you do not get any credit from any of them.

Not necessarily the case. I remember reading, I think it was a newspaper article, a few years back with an interview with a foreign PUA visiting Norway where the journalist went with him while he cold approached Norwegian women which was very successful. And when the journalist talked to some of the women afterwards they complained about Norwegian men not having the balls to act like the PUA

Could be the guy mentioned earlier was just using social welfare as an excuse for why he couldn't get laid, when really he just didn't speak the language as well as he thought he did.

Didn't the article see he successfully seduced an 18-year-old? Not exactly anything to be proud of but he still did it.

I kind of resent the idea that laughing at a tit joke automatically makes you a "bro".

Broness isn't just laughing at jokes. Primarily, it's demanding that your sense of humor be accepted.

Is there a line between demanding and paying attention to your audience?

Am I allowed to still make tit jokes, so long as nobody red flags that they will be offended by such a joke?

I'm still surprised that "bro" has changed from 'cool guy' to rape supporter.

Kind of. It's like all actions—it's often fine when it's with people you know. But that's also a surefire way to create a self-congratulatory echo chamber. I wouldn't call it "okay" any more than a bunch of people making lynch jokes or n-word jokes solely within the privacy of their own homes. I can't stop them, but that's far from calling it "okay".

edited 30th Oct '13 8:30:43 PM by KingZeal

No, here's an appropriate joke about tits:

Yesterday, a woman got a wood breast implant.

It'd be great if this joke had a punchline, wooden tit?

Because the actual joke is the unexpected pun. It's not denigrating or othering and not even really sexualized.

There are plenty of great tit jokes that are non-offensive...