Name and definition overlap: Strike Me Down

So we have Strike Me Down and Strike Me Down with All of Your Hatred!. See the problem here? Two tropes named after the same quote with almost the same definition that even sound like one is a redirect for the other. The only difference I could pin down is that Strike Me Down with All of Your Hatred! is implicitly about villains, which means that there is still considerable example overlap between them. Any suggestions for how to fix this?

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

I suggested the latter, and then found out the former was already here. I now propose merging them.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Which name and definition should we keep then?

edited 19th Mar '11 12:37:18 PM by Killomatic

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

Oh good, someone finally noticed this; tried making a thread about this here a while ago, but it didn't take. Anyway, while I am obviously biased, I think Strike Me Down works better: it's broader and the title more succinct.

I'll turn your neocortex into a flowerpot!

Actually, it looks to be slapping several tropes together. There is a major difference between wanting to be struck down in defeat due to dishonor and wanting a hero to take you out because you know it will help in a Face–Heel Turn.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

The later can be covered under My Death Is Only The Beginning.

"Thorough preparation must lead to success. Neglect nothing."

No, that's a more general thing about a villain's plan. The trope I wrote up is specifically wanting the hero to succumb to their dark emotions, even if they don't then actually kill the villain.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

Wouldn't that be a subtrope of Thanatos Gambit then?

Fight smart, not fair.

Again, this doesn't require dying. That does.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

So, is it an independent trope or isn't it?

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

Bumping because this did not get addressed.

That and to mention the following real-life example and ask which trope it falls into:

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Witnesses told police that Brown yelled "shoot me and kill me!" (Said at about 2 minutes and 7 seconds into the video.)

I think the concepts ("kill me because I don't want to live with the humiliation of having been beaten by you" and "kill me because it will propel you into a Face–Heel Turn") are too distinct to make for a good merge.

Renaming and tweaking the writeup of "Strike Me Down With All Your Hatred" so that it covers provoking the hero into lashing out (whether or not the lashing out is, or is intended to be, lethal) would solve two problems (the confusion and the apparent absence of a trope for non-lethal cases).

Hmmm... how about "Give In To Your Hate" — another quote from the same confrontation, but less associated with the idea of provoking the hero to kill — for the "take a step toward a Face–Heel Turn" trope?

edited 12th Jun '11 10:16:22 AM by SteveMB

@neo: Wouldn't that fall under Suicide by Cop?

Is there a way to put a "Trope Repair Shop Discussion" link to this thread on both relevant trope pages?

No. I suggest making a TRS thread for the other one and just posting a link to this thread after a quick explanation.

Fight smart, not fair.

I suggest that THIS trope be renamed 'Finish Me' and be redefined to be about 'I can't live with the dishonor of lossing'. 'With All Your Hatred' is specifically about Villains provoking a hero into killing them to force a Face–Heel Turn. The hero doesn't have to kill them, just to seriously try.

Redefining this trope would be easy. All we have to do is remove the second paragraph.

I think I Demand You Finish Me might be a bit more blunt.

Fight smart, not fair.

There is now a page action crowner about these two tropes here.

Feel free to add and edit options as you see fit since I am not sure I described the various options very clearly.

"irhgT nm0w tehre might b ea lotof th1nmgs i dont udarstannd, ubt oim ujst goinjg to keepfollowing this pazth i belieove iN !!!!!1 d

Bumping for more votes.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick