Men who have sex with men

Link. MWHSWMS are too put simply, males who sleep with other males yet still identify as straights

Now personally I am fairly Constipated on the whole idea of sexual labels, But if someone enjoys having sex with men than surely than makes them gay by definition?

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It doesn't say they have a particular desire for it, just that they do it.

It's about the difference between desires and actions, I suppose?

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It's a term used in STD epidemiology studies. It includes also instances of Situational Sexuality and male prostitutes. They do have sex with men, but they don't neccessarily identify as homosexual at all.

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I guess it's seen as like a sex toy. Using a sex toy for sexual pleasure doesn't mean you actively feel any real desire for that kind of sex toy, it's just there and you used it.

No.

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Your orientation is defined who you are attracted to. If they are indeed turned on by males, or male sex, then yeah, they prolly have something there, but if they just like sex, and know a dude who is willing to put out...it is...more debatable.

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Hmm. I'm of the opinion that identifying as MSM is usually a form of homophobic self-deception, but it's obviously possible to have sex with men without being sexually attracted to them.

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It's likely in a very small minority, but some people are fine with the idea of having sex outside of their orientation. I know I am, at least.

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Google "gay for pay" to see the concept in the porn industry.

Please.

Also, male prostitution in general.

Oh, and rape.

The problem with labels for orientation is that they're used to cover very wide bands of sexuality; it makes about as much sense as using the term "liberal" or "conservative" to describe someone's entire political orientation.

Not to mention that labels like "gay" and "straight" (and to a lesser extent, "bi"), like political titles, carry a lot of baggage to them. If you're technically under one group, then you're expected to act like a stereotype of that group and to affiliate with that group.

Of course, it puts into question the idea of "identifying as straight". By definition, straight is only being attracted to those of your opposite gender.

edited 19th Mar '11 12:09:41 PM by EthZee

"Not to mention that labels like "gay" and "straight" (and to a lesser extent, "bi"), like political titles, carry a lot of baggage to them. If you're technically under one group, then you're expected to act like a stereotype of that group and to affiliate with that group." - Eth Zee

Not necessarily. If someone is gay, they are looked down on for being gay, but not for "acting straight." If anything, the added ridicule they would face for acting like a "stereotypical homosexual" would probably be worse than whatever they would get for diverging from the stereotypes.

edited 19th Mar '11 12:40:51 PM by neoYTPism

No. They could be bi, for instance.

I can see how this term might be useful in scientific research. If what you're trying to look at is sexual activity rather than attraction, you could get men who think "Well, there was that thing with Bob, but if it's him it's OK and apart from that I'm totally straight" and then ticking 'straight' in the survey.

edited 19th Mar '11 5:21:01 PM by LoniJay

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Yes, exactly. Rather than relying on fuzzy definitions of terms like 'straight' or 'gay', it's more useful to ask people what they actually do and who they actually do it with, if you're doing surveys or studies.

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As if a title like this wouldn't carry baggage either? Like "a form of homophobic self-deception"?

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I check out men sometimes, so apparently I'm not allowed to call myself straight. But if I say I'm bi, I risk being called a poser because I'm not bi enough. (Mind you, I'm not currently having sex with anyone of either gender.)

Also, some cultures consider "gay" to be bottoming—if you're a guy and you're sticking it in another guy, it's not like you couldn't stick it in the same place on a girl.

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If your'e into that.

edited 21st Mar '11 4:15:13 AM by joeyjojo

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That's a good point, about the "how much do you have to like men as well as women before you are considered bi" thing. I think a webcomic artist who is also a lesbian had that quandry when she fell in love with, and later married, a man. (She still IDs as lesbian, to my knowledge.)

^^^ Honestly, that just sounds like you're letting people push you around.

"Wax on, wax off..." "But Mr. Miyagi, I don't see how this is helping me do Karate..." "Pubic hair is weakness, Daniel-san!"

Dunno that the concept is close enough to be translatable as «gay».

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Personally, I think here the difference is between "gay sex" and "gay love".

Basically, people who enjoy making use of FATAL's favorite stat but don't think they'll ever fall in love with a man, probably identify as straight.

edited 31st Mar '11 4:39:45 AM by Medinoc

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