General clean-up and narrower definition: Canon Welding

The Canon Welding page is awfully confusing. It seems to me that it's supposed to be about when two (or more) unrelated stories are retroactively placed in the same continuity (eg: The Hobbit). But the description also seems to be open to any sort of crossover or shout-out, and in fact, that's what most of the examples are. So I really think this trope needs to be have a clearer, narrower definition followed by much clean up.

I excavated the lede from the middle of the definition and emphasized that it takes more than a simple crossover or shoutout, but if you want to do a more extensive rewrite, feel free.

The example drift has been a problem with this trope since before it was renamed from Moorcock Effect, and it could definitely use a good chainsawing.

I've been slowly excising the most egregious non-examples, but a lot of them stump me because I'm unfamiliar with the work. For instance, Giant Robo: does it actually weld Sally the Witch, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, etc together; or does it simply feature alternate counterparts of their characters, and forge its own universe? Similarly, Pretty Cure All Stars, Dragon Ball/Dr Slump and all the webcomics listed under the Crossover Wars bullet sound more like simple crossovers and cameos than Canon Welding to me, but I can't say for sure.

Basically what I'm saying is, it'd be great to have some people who actually are knowledgeable take a crack at some major chainsawing.

The Moorcock Effect was a better name for this trope for those people who were aware of Moorcock (who are likely a minority, but oh well).

^ ...And a worse name for those people who aren't aware of Moorcock (who are likely a majority, but oh well).

edited 18th May '11 10:05:16 AM by Stratadrake

Since the description refers to an author or creator deciding to weld two or more of his own creations, wouldn't examples like the Crossover Wars & Heroes Unite be Shared Universe examples since they are examples of multiple authors bringing together their 'verses?

^ and ^^^ How about Author Universe?

Author Universe would be good as it emphasizes that it refers to one author deciding to connect two or more of his or her own series into the same universe whereas Canon Welding is more vague, possibly more of a supertrope name.

Bump.

Author Universe may in be a legitimate trope, but it doesn't capture the fact that it's retroactive like Canon Welding does.

I'd say that crossovers and such are definitely not counted under Canon Welding. It's supposed to be meant for things like JRR Tolkien connecting The Hobbit to Lord Of The Rings, Robert A Heinlein's World as Myth (where he retroactively made everything he's ever written as a connected multiverse) or Isaac Asimov's connecting his robot stories to his Foundation series. Stuff like Super Robot Wars or Powerpuff Girls Doujinshi doesn't really count.

Maybe a good rule would be that the original author of the involved settings has to be the one to "weld" them.

edited 29th Sep '11 7:16:39 PM by NativeJovian

I don't think that's a good idea: in terms of how the trope works, it makes little difference whether the "welding" is done by the original author, or someone else. The plot mechanics work the same way in both cases. Also, when it comes to collaborative works like TV series or superhero comics, how can you even say who's the "original" author? Yet similar things can happen in them as in the Asimov and Heinlein examples you cite.

I think it'd make more sense, as someone suggested above, to have Canon Welding as a supertrope and Retroactive Author Universe as a subtrope.

edited 30th Sep '11 12:35:05 AM by Tuomas

Then what's the difference between Canon Welding and a Crossover?

In the case of a work without a single original author (like comic books), I'd say count the company that owns it as its original author. If Turn A Gundam says that all Gundam works are in the same universe, or DC Comics says that Batman and Superman exist in the same continuity, then that's Canon Welding. But something like the League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, where a third party combines a bunch of stories not originally connected, would be a Crossover.

edited 2nd Oct '11 12:46:48 PM by NativeJovian

That's a pretty good way to distinguish between a crossover and canon welding, I can live with that.

Edit: Hmm, looks like Modular Franchise already covers the welding done by a company, so I guess Canon Welding should be limited to individual creators.

edited 4th Oct '11 1:00:33 AM by Tuomas

Modular Franchise seems to cover things that go back and forth between being canon welded and not. (eg, Batman and Superman still have their own singular works despite being subject to Canon Welding via the Justice League and the like.) I'm not sure that's entirely the same thing as "corporate Canon Welding", though it's certainly a related concept, at least.