General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

You're absolutely correct. Since all of Sonic's original creators have either retired or moved on, their influence from the games is gone.

Though I think that Naka should have one more shot at making a good Sonic game before he retires from the series forever.

Agreed.

Can't change the past, though. The last console game I enjoyed was Sonic 2006, anyway. XD

But eh, maybe he may come back. Or make his own games. Who knows?

@Hydronix:Naka's making his own games as part of his own studio now, called Prope, and I've heard that he's doing pretty well.

edited 4th Oct '12 8:52:19 PM by WaxingName

Ah. Never heard of it. I might check out some gameplay videos. Or atleast figure out what he's making and all. XD

He's made a puzzle platformer called Ivy The Kiwi for DS and Wii which had good reception. He's also made a Ni GHTS Into Dreams Spiritual Successor called Rodea The Sky Soldier. It's just that he's run into trouble getting it published. (Better call Nintendo or XSEED to save its ass.)

Also, it turns out that ten former Sonic Team members followed Naka in forming Prope. They must have been furious at how Sega was treating them back there.

SA 2 is supposed to be out on Live today but the interns running the arcade this week are messing everything up.

inb4scathingreviewsboutnotageingwell. Though Generations probably does make it look much worse than it was before.

To be honest, SA2 isn't that great anyway. I'm being generous when I say that.

edited 5th Oct '12 6:55:53 AM by PhysicalStamina

Imo SA 2 is complete garbage, almost as bad as Sonic 4. The only redeeming part is Rouge.

Even Sonic 4 is better than SA2, I don't care what anyone says. No amount of Rouge is ever gonna change that.

edited 5th Oct '12 11:09:04 AM by PhysicalStamina

What do you find bad about SA2? Aside from a few camera and control issues, as well as wildly different gameplay styles, I heard it's good.

SA 2 is a great game, the problem is fans overrate that game as if it's the best thing ever.

edited 5th Oct '12 12:59:28 PM by DavidtheMouse14

One thing I wish I knew more about was why Naoto Oshima, Sonic's original designer and co-creator, left Sega. I heard he had a argument with Yuji Naka over which direction to take Sonic post-Adventure; Naoto wanted to stick to the cartoony roots of the earlier games, while Naka wanted the series to go the shonen-anime route (which Adventure 2 went with) which was why he left, but I can't seem to find any source to back it up. Until then, I'm assuming there is far more to it than just that reason alone, or that bit of info is just apocryphal gossip or something taken out of context.

Confidentially, I side with Naoto, if he really thought that.

Well, it seems that Oshima's vision is winning out today, while Naka's vision has been phased out ever since he and a lot of other Sonic Team members quit due to Sega's actions.

I do say that Naka's vision did have potential, and it seemed that they were moving in a good direction up until SA2, after which everything went to hell until they decided to abandon it all together.

Fun fact: Naoto Oshima headed the development of two Yoshi games: The not-so-good Yoshi's Topsy-Turvy/Universal Gravitation and the much better Yoshis Island DS.

x5 For starters, The Sonic/Shadow stages only make up about 40% of the game. The layout for each story is pretty much: speed, hunting, mech, hunting, repeat (the mech and hunting stages are interchangeable).

Secondly, even the speed stages aren't that good; the traction seems to have been reduced since SA1, making Sonic and Shadow seem slippery and harder to control, and the level design has taken a dip in quality as well.

Now, the mech stages. They're just not very good. The mechs themselves are fairly clunky, and having to lock on to multiple enemies before shooting to get the most points often means you'll end up getting shot at before actually getting to shoot anything. Don't get me started on Lost Colony.

Finally, the hunting stages. These were actually pretty okay in SA1; here, they start out decent and get worse with each stage. First of all, the radar. The first game had a radar that informed you of any emerald you happened to be near, no matter the order, which could potentially allow you to finish the stages that much quicker. SA2, however, thought that was a bad idea, and instead decided to only tell you where the first emerald is, then the second, then third. Unless you've played the game enough to know where all of the emeralds are (and they're not always in the same place) and sequence break, this does nothing but drag out the stages. Then there's, again, the design. Starting with the pyramid stage, the level design of these stages can range from frustrating to tedious, an dthe stages just get too big for their own good. The Prison Island stage that I can't remember the name of and Mad Space are especially bad; in the former, if an emerald shard is locked inside a safe, you have to figure out a way to unlock it. then one in a room at the top of the stage, which you have to dodge tons of lasers just to get to, then dodge them again to get back down. In Mad Space, you're in this HUGE area, with hint boxes that outright lie to you (with upside-down text at that). It's just boring, and you'll find yourself just wanting it to end after about, oh... eight minutes.

TL;DR: Sonic Adventure 2's design choices are not good.

edited 5th Oct '12 4:03:03 PM by PhysicalStamina

So I wasn't the only one annoyed by SA2's treasure hunts.

edited 5th Oct '12 4:35:52 PM by nomuru2d

I honestly haven't found anyone who enjoyed the treasure hunting levels.

I did. But I like exploring more than just platforming/fighting stuff, so that's perhaps just me.

Anyway, I can see what you mean. I don't agree, mind you, but I get ya.

I felt it should've had atleast 4 courses per character, and one "special course"(like Tails and Rouge's Racing areas) per person. Which means it totals 16 each.

Besides that, I think all the characters should've had equal upgrades. Albeit, if you look at the areas they're in, it makes a bit of sense.

They might have been half decent if they hadn't dumbed down the radar to only recognise one shard at a time. What was the point in that except to make the game even more linear and drawn out than SA 1 than it already was?

I agree the controlling seemed a lot slipperier and clunky than the first Adventure, what's more the two alternative gameplays have been altered to be more slow and clunky, losing that Sonic-y feel Knux and Gamma had in the original (seriously Gamma was awesome to play as in the original, Tails just feels boring most of the time in this one). The levels are also bland at times and a drag on, not to mention cheap hits like enemies darting into you out of nowhere. Almost the opposite of SA 1's problem, where levels were lush and diverse, but sometimes way too short and easy.

It was also the start of the series' more 'mature' period, drifting into pretentious dark cliches like government conspiracies and mass genocide that didn't fit the franchise at all, though at least it was somewhat better handled in this instance.

It had improvements however, the cosmetics and presentation were much better than the first Adventure, that felt half finished. And I'll give credit some of the innovations and layouts for some levels, especially Sonic's are pretty impressive.

edited 5th Oct '12 4:56:07 PM by Psi001

Agreed with that too. I like the first game's radar, but I preferred the Dig be just the B button while in the air. Pressing two buttons at once was more annoying, and they didn't always cooperate.

I did prefer the upgrades form Sonic Adventure 2, though.

True, Knuckles' controls were better in SA 2, but it was with clunkier mechanics and duller levels (which is odd since SA 1's levels are mostly just vague retools of Sonic's).

SA 1's biggest problem was that the layouts were so basic. About five or so hiding places for the emeralds and they were mostly blatant to find. The lack of wall dig may have played into this. Add more intricate puzzles (albeit not over the top ones like in SA 2) and it would have been okay.

Insta light dash was good (though there's an AR code that puts that in SA 1 anyway), probably a bad idea to map it with the bounce button, leading to a fair few inadvertant deaths if you find a ring cluster over a cliff.

edited 5th Oct '12 5:00:25 PM by Psi001

Oh, god, I hated the accidental bounce too. I admit, that was terrible.

Besides that, I loved the broken Bounce Attack. Especially against the first fight with Shadow.

There was also the broken homing attack that sometimes sent you dashing with only one press, seemed to perk up especially at Egg Golem. Extremely irritating.

That was present all the way till after Sonic 2006. I'm mixed on the Homing Attack. I hate "waiting" to lock on, but I won't deny the times it screwed up on me.

Overall, I lead towards "non-lock on" version. I'm not that patient. And I can always replay the level. It's less frustrating for me, anyway.

Well, know you know at least one.

In fact, I really miss them. Some were annoying (like, blech, Mad Space), but others were very fun once you knew what you were doing (like Pumpkin Hill).