Macross general Thread

Even the cat aliens leader admitted there were benefits to working for Windemere even if they don't like being ruled over and believe NUNS propaganda.

x4

Official forum rules say that spoilers have to be tagged until the next episode airs but a lot of threads make their own rules so...

I bet Hayato's father is the one who dropped the dimensional weapon.

That's what I thought as soon as he sent the snowman.

I know they have people just as bad. I know they've done some evil things too. Hell, I do believe they're responsible for the D-bomb and I certainly am angry at them over the nuke on Ragna.

What pisses me off about Windermere so much is that they have the gall to commit war crimes and crow about how "just and righteous" they are while doing it, and the show seems to try to paint them as sympathetic. Whereas if NUNS commits a war crime, it's portrayed as pure evil.

Speaking personally, I would far prefer to be dead than mind controlled. Removal of free will is a crime at the very least equally as heinous as murder, if not moreso. It's enslavement in the purest form. And I cannot call that justified, no matter the circumstance.

EDIT: Yeesh, I need to calm down. Sorry. MST3K Mantra, me.

edited 11th Jul '16 1:33:43 PM by DarkHunter

I'm on the "Hayate's dad did it" wagon.

Hayate's dad dropping the bomb wouldn't be at all surprising

And, yeah, the way the show keeps painting NUNS as evil and Windemere as sympathetic despite the latter doing far worse things is rather irritating

I don't see the show trearting the war crimes as sympathetic, but the reasons why they think they must go to these methods to win.

They likely don't have a choice in the matter when the enemy dominates a good deal of the galaxy and can WMD them into extinction if necessary. And as shown don't care about the damage they would do to the races between them and Windemere either.

Though I agree on the mind control, being worse than death since that was the antagonists goals in Frontier but with cybernetics.

edited 11th Jul '16 8:24:42 PM by OmegaRadiance

I made sure to rewatch the latest episode just to be safe and it's pretty clear we're npt supposed to see them conquering the galaxy as unreasonable. Up tilk now it portrayed freeing the cluster as a noble mission and sympathetic reasons for why.

Even the older knights realized this was going too far.

Also the prequel manga showed things that happen before the war as well and wmd was deployed. Heinz was learning how to walk. So implied evil was before then.

Edit:Dang I meant copy paste this to my older post.

edited 11th Jul '16 9:25:11 PM by OmegaRadiance

It's clearly going too far (not least because it involves Meddling With Powers That They Do Not Understand (TM)), but it's understandable unreasonableness, if you get me. Roid has seen enough evidence to make him believe that the NUNE are a nation of tyrants willing to resort to immense, indiscriminate force when things don't go their way, rather than the truth that they're a heterogenous and mostly reasonable organisation with a few worrying patches of rot (which may be part of the third party that's playing him - we still don't know what sinister headscarf guy's deal is).

Wasn't Windemere successfully cut off from the rest of the galaxy before they started getting conquesty, though? This all seems unnecessary

Exactly. They got their independence, and good for them. They were hurt by NUNS, and they repelled them. That part I agree with wholeheartedly. The higher-ups in the NUNS government who ordered such acts need to be dealt with.

But then Windermere decided they had to conquer the entire cluster, and now the entire galaxy. They accuse NUNS of abusing their power and forming a galactic hegemony, keeping the other races subservient. Whether these accusations hold any water or not, Windermere is trying to do exactly the same thing they accuse NUNS of doing. Except they see it as justified when they do it due to being "the heirs to the Protoculture", which makes them the superior race of people in the galaxy.

edited 12th Jul '16 3:28:36 AM by DarkHunter

It all makes sense if you think of Windermere as prewar Japan, already inclined to try and conquer the world/galaxy but to which the bombing of Hiroshima happened pre-emptively.

x2 the problem with that is that NUNS had only given them independence in order to tarnish their planets name and continue their own dominance of the galaxy. They don't even have the luxury of thinking they won't try this again at a later point, and even the leader of the feline aliens said there were more benefits serving under Windemere than being forced under NUNS, meaning that they do keep other races down to preserve their own power so freeing the cluster as a whole and that the methods they used were to ensure that NUNS wouldn't use their power to make a treaty that benefits themselves, which is very likely what happened when they gave Windemere independence.

edited 12th Jul '16 7:48:29 AM by OmegaRadiance

You know, if I didn't look at the trope page I wouldn't have noticed this. Blond Hair, Face (well half face) mask, a custom unit, goes faster than the other Knights, KEITH IS A CHAR!

On this week's episode of Macross Delta Birthdays and Feelings. And I saw Hayate might have Var but I might be looking too close at his dizzy spell.

It does look like Var, but I don't think it's Var specifically. Hayate does have a special connection to Freyja, IIRC, so it could just be that connection developing further, OR he's getting his equivalent of Messer's control over the Var. Also, I'm dead certain now that Hayate's dad dropped the nuke.

The Freyja Ship Tease was really damn strong in that scene, but to my eyes it looks like Hayate is closer to and more comfortable with Mirage...

Course, if we take previous Macross series as precedent, it's generally the older, more mature woman who wins the love triangle in the end.

Mikumo's still mysterious.

Damn, Hayate, that is like Natsuru-level denseness at missing Hint Dropping. Or maybe he was ignoring it because he wanted to concentrate on Freyja (it being her birthday)? I don't know. I feel kinda bad for Mirage.

That didn't look like Var to me. I'm... really not sure what that was, except it's clearly a result of Freyja's and Hayate's connection (note that he was clutching his Fold Quartz charm).

And yeah, his father totally dropped the bomb, or at least was involved in the incident somehow.

edited 18th Jul '16 9:12:01 PM by DarkHunter

Two days since Sunday, spoilers off?

I'm thinking it had to do with the fold quartz myself, the Var seems a little left-field when his necklace has been shown resonating with Freyja's singing before.

As for the love triangle: honestly at this point I'm pretty sure that Mirage is just completely out of the running as anything but a best friend after this episode. Freyja might've gotten sisterzoned if it were earlier on in the series but after the rune touching this episode I'm starting to feel like there's potential for more there (finally).

I've heard that the love triangle for Delta is supposed to be different from the ones in other series, whatever that means.

Harem ending!

Rei-Rei gets all the girls.

I this weeks episode of Macross Delta recap episode BUT of the song variety, plus click bait, trust me it makes sense in context, and we finally get some confirmation on some stuff.

edited 25th Jul '16 7:26:47 AM by mega-dark

lol the part with Bogue killed me.

And Cassem might heel-face turn it looks like.

So... wait...

A NUNS pilot, Hayate's father, did deploy the dimensional weapon. But the story sounded like that was independent action he took after speaking with Windermerean forces, and he deployed it against the NUNS base? Not exactly implicating the NUNS government's complicity in the act there.

There's something more going on here. A conspiracy on one or both sides. I don't see any way a group within NUNS would profit from this situation, but it would galvanize the Windermereans into their current conquering mindset. But why would the Windermereans rely on a NUNS pilot to do the job, rather than, say, sneaking one of their own in and flying a NUNS fighter to frame them? And why have him attack a NUNS base rather than a Windermerean landmark if the goal was to anger the populace?

There is the smell of one or more rats here, but whose rats are they?

edited 25th Jul '16 5:05:39 PM by DarkHunter

I told you guys the backstory manga has a masked villain up to something fishy even performing experiments on Vajra.