Re: Right to Die

Tax funded? Like in a school? Are you saying that they shouldn't teach kids diction?

Public education is great and all... adequate. But I'm not under the impression that there is an obligation of the state to lend assistance to the public. It's the concept of 'Civic Entitlement' I disagree with.

edited 12th Feb '11 2:24:51 PM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid

I think extreme physical pain counts.

I suggested Nitrogen because it's about as good a way to die as can be conceived, and really fucking cheap (looked it up by Google search; in gas form, around $0.50 per litre).

It's really easy to help someone die with this stuff, as they won't even oppose the mask. You only need help to put the mask on, turn the gas on, turn the gas off, and take the mask off - and dispose of the body and stuff, but this could be managed.

Well, from a European perspective, public education can create Nokia and everything else that's ever come out of Northern Europe. (Another Finnish example: Linux. Need another one? Internet Relay Chat.)

I suppose most European high-profile authors, politicians, scientists, inventors, and the like have been educated by the state. If the number is less than half (as in, more than hald have had private education), I'd be extremely surprised.

edited 12th Feb '11 2:28:59 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Nitrogen seems like a neat way to do it.

Er... what is the government's obligation, then? Someone to laugh at?

Their job is ta "MOVE BITCH, GET OUT DA WAY!"

Unless it comes to a public option, in which case, make sure everyone has universal health care!

edited 12th Feb '11 4:14:39 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Yeah, I mean, if the government stopped doing stuff for people, one might question the need of government to exist, and besides, how are you gonna justify taxation and stuff like that if they're not used for anything but the government's salaries.

Not to mention that providing services and a framework of society is exactly the reason that governments exist, and the services that a state provides for its people are its primary function and defining feature.

edited 12th Feb '11 4:16:43 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

^ Pretty much. While I'm a product of the British education system  ^*

, I see taxes as the method by which the government distributes money into public services; you take the money, redivide it, return it. Of course, some will be lost in transition  ^*

^salaries

, but this is their job; their payment.

If government governs solely itself, it should not govern anything.

Uh, yeah, I do think I should have the right to terminate myself. If I wanted to slit my wrists right now, I should have the right to.

Don't you have a family or friends? That seems incredibly selfish otherwise.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

I'm not really a beliver that you hsould carry on a miserable existance just so you wont make your loved ones sad. Dont get me wrong, Im not planning to off myself or anything, but I have no intention to live on for anyone except myself.

Plus, Im not really convinced that they'd be all that much worse off.

^^ If I were in a situation where death is preferable to life, I am comfortable that my loved ones would understand this. They may not like it, and encourage me to seek out methods of help, which I'd readily accept, but if my final choice brings me towards death, I hope they'll support me through it.

Hypothetically speaking.

edited 12th Feb '11 5:03:58 PM by AllanAssiduity

Well, I'm not going to stop someone from committing suicide. I'll think badly of you unless you really, really had nothing to lose, but it's ultimately your choice.

Of course, in a situation where the person isn't capable of reasoning clearly, they shouldn't be allowed a choice.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

Oh I'm so sorry random Internet person, I'll make sure to live and die according to your standards then.

Er, I'm not sure why this would matter to someone who has had their consciousness erased from existence. Or sent into th e afterlife/reincarnated, or what have you.

Anyway, someone who is not in the right frame of mind should obviously not be given the choice, as should someone who is being manipulated by others into making the choice.

I just said you don't have to. I'm just saying that I (from what I admit is a fairly cheerful, satisfied life) won't particularly respect the decision to commit suicide in most cases. There's no need to react badly, especially since you just said you weren't planning to commit suicide.

It won't, it's just my opinion.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

True enough.

I don't tend to let how someone died affect how I see them. See: Alan Turing.

I think that if we're going to allow it, it has to be regulated, or there is opportunity to abuse it. "Oh, Granny asked me to help her die, it has nothing to do with the will", that sort of thing.

Maybe you have to have a number of witnesses testify that that is truly their wish or something.

Be not afraid...

^ Oh, of course. I believe Sir T. Pratchett proposed a tribunal or something along those lines, as well as things like doctor recommendations and the like. I can dig up a link if you want.

^^^^ Right but not everyone leads cheerful, satisfying lives. To force people to drag themselves through their dull, meaningless lives just because seems pretty bad.

edited 12th Feb '11 5:24:36 PM by SilentStranger

edited 12th Feb '11 5:27:23 PM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid

^ It... thats NOT how it works. Jeez.

@SS: I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. It's just my opinion. Where do I say I'm forcing anyone to do something? In fact, I think I might have said I'm not forcing anyone. I'm getting close to accusing you of strawmanning me.

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

^^^ Your point, besides missing the point of socialism?

See, I'm not a patriotic person. I do recognise that I am a subject of my government and thus, when I am of age, must support the upkeep of that government. Without their subjects giving them money, there would not, as it were, be a government.

edited 12th Feb '11 5:29:56 PM by AllanAssiduity

I didnt mean you specifically, I meant why people should have a right to die, as in that they shouldnt be forced to stay alive

And good riddance!

If people want to end their lives I don't see what right that society has to either help or hinder them. If your death means so much to you, don't go looking for legal support or 'assistance'. Get off your fat dying ass and find a fork and a wall socket and put yourselve out of your misery. Jesus can't people fend for themselves anymore?

hashtagsarestupid

Tomu, you deserve props for quoting Ludacris in an OTC thread and being absolutely relevant about it. *salutes*

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.