Escapism versus Reality

Discussion, no flaming. This is based off of something I read in troper update's. Do you think this could work out as a thread? Other than the fact that in the end, I prefer reality, I really have nothing much else to add. Would others mind contributing?

edited 9th Feb '11 6:49:26 PM by BlackDove

How...how would escapism win?

Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.

please everyone read my analysis on the subject

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Analysis/Escapism

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.

The short answer is, there are no new frontiers. If you wanted control over your destiny, you used to be able to pick up stakes, go somewhere new, and do things however you wanted. Now you can't do that in the real world, so you're left with fantasy. Many fandom types have told me they felt they were "born in the wrong time." Until it gets easy to go into space and "seek out new worlds," we're stuck here.

Under World. It rocks!

Life sucks ass, escapism keeps me wrong killing myself.

There is nothing wrong with escapism. I couldn't understand in the slightest how some people have tried to link combating the "loser culture"s of the world, in "Asia", in the "West", anywhere. As being particularly destructive, sexist, and degenerate.

When the world is irritating, and you don't like things about it, there's nothing wrong with falling back to imagination. I am faced with understanding the things that people fall into themselves and their escapes on a day to day basis. To say that there's no excuse to fall back into idealism and imagination is silly.

Isn't the real purpose in life, if that can be anything remotely to it, to enjoy life? There is no objective meaning in life. So instead we should craft our own happiness in whatever way. Unfortunately it seems to be a growing troll to attack the fantastic, fanciful, and beautiful. Cornering humans away from the beauty in reality, and shaking them away from fantasy. One has to have some root somewhere in existence. And if you don't respect escapism, you should at least have the decency to respect people trying to take root in something in reality that people find beautiful.

edited 10th Feb '11 7:51:13 AM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

@Ukonivi:

Mmm, I think escapism is often snubbed unfairly for presenting a world different than reality - when I tend to see it as an exploration of the might-have-beens and the could-have-beens and indeed often enough a thought experiment about just what makes out world/universe/existence unique and the laws it runs under and why it's not different. Think of children playing make-believe: they do it all the time, and it's not just play; it's a crucial part of developing their own worldview and understanding and questioning how the world works. I think fantasy/sci-fi literature is often an extension of this tendency into an adult arena, conscious harnessing of the 'childlike' tendencies of curiosity and exploration.

Of course, not all escapism or f/sf literature is like this, but I think much of it does have these virtues.

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If anything, the lack of new frontiers has given people more freedom. Back in those old days, most people would stay where they were born and rarely go more than 50 miles from their home. Now? It is ridiculously easy to travel the world and find out more and more about it. And it just keeps getting easier and easier. You seem to overlooking just how big Earth really is.

Well wouldn't you rather fix the problem instead of having to keep running away from it? If something is getting to you, don't just retreat into make believe, do something to try to change it. Idealism and imagination are tremendously useful things, but only if you use them as a motive for something.

Okay, those first two points contradict each other. You can't there is no objective meaning to life and then say that the end goal is enjoyment. As for people who want to shut you away from the vast amounts of beautiful and fantastic things in life, what kind of fuckass lets them do that? You shouldn't let their bitterness and anger force you away from looking at the good in life and retreating into a make believe world.

Ukonkivi you said people have to find a root in existence. Well you can't root yourself in something that doesn't exist.

My issue with escapism is that all to often it neglects the person's real self. It's okay to find the quest to take the One Ring to Mt. Doom and interesting story or to be fascinated by the adventures of the crew of the USS Enterprise or to even care about your mage guild in some MMO. But at the end of the day, none of those things are about you. They are stories about other people, or an avatar you make for yourself. Your adventures in real life with other people should be more exciting and important to you than a friendly game of make believe. Because honestly, who doesn't want to pose as a team since the world is real?

^ Make-belive worlds are so much more pleasant though.

I doubt many people would find living through the plots of stories pleasant. But anyway, you have no part in them. You aren't Captain Kirk. You aren't Gandalf. You aren't even the avatar you move around in some MMORPG. You're you in real life. In the end your story is what matters.

Yeah, great story. "Once upon a time, there was this guy. He was average, or below average, in every aspect, lived a mediocre life, married someone he didnt love because he was scared of dying alone, worked his whole life in a soul-crushing corporation, was laid off by the age of 48, and died on the toilet from a brain aunerysm. The end."

I don't endorse escapism.

People who insist that anyone with a hobby relating to fiction of any kind are manchildren who can't deal with the real world irritate me, however.

I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....

There is no objective meaning in life. Therefore there are no "should"s, and there is no "real purpose" in life.

IMO, real life is too dangerous for adventures. I don't understand what this even means.

In my eyes, that's one of the advantages stories have over reality.

One could argue that real life is about guiding an "avatar" around, just like in an RPG. Only in real life, you have much less control over what that avatar is like, and the stakes are much higher.

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That's why the fictional world is so much fun, Bobby.

If you make an avatar on a game and you do something wrong, you can just redo it and take a different option.

In the real world, once its done, its done. No take backs, no forgetting it, its stuck with you for the rest of your life.

There's nothing wrong with escapism, until it inhibits one's ability to function in real life.

And that's pretty much it, except for defining those terms.

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with escapism in and of itself. After all, life's a hurricane and if you don't stop and take shelter from the storm every now and again you get by an airborne Volvo.

Or rather, to clarify that metaphor: life inherently brings various obstacles and problems, and if you don't take a minute to get away from one's problems for a bit and rest, it's easy for one to become overwhelmed.

However, escapism, much like drinking, can become a problem if it becomes overused. It's one thing to take a break from life every now and then; it's another to keep on running from it.

«That's why the fictional world is so much fun, Bobby.»

You don't want stakes or risks in your life?

«If you make an avatar on a game and you do something wrong, you can just redo it and take a different option.

That gets boring after a while. If it didn't, and I wasn't on a mac, I'd still be playing an MMO I'm glad I gave up.

«In the real world, once its done, its done. No take backs, no forgetting it, its stuck with you for the rest of your life.»

Which can be both a good and a bad thing. The fantasy world ends when you shut off your computer, go to bed, or are woken up by the school bell.

I would say that there's nothing wrong with escapism, but there is something wrong with real life— the degree of difficulty required to function in it.

I would be cautious in answering this. Technically, there are stakes and risks of such a wide variety of sizes that it seems to me that some degree of risk, however small, can be found in any activity in which one may conceivably desire to participate, including those which qualify as escapist. So rather than making this an all-or-nothing question, I think the question is really about what degree/types of risk you want, and how high you want the stakes to be.

1. This thread is called "Escapism versus Reality"

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edited 10th Feb '11 8:32:59 PM by ViralLamb

Power corrupts. Knowledge is Power. Study hard. Be evil.

I wont lie.

I sometimes wish the BTL chips form Shadow Run existed.

After the death of my cat last week (and my first major loss of my life) I've been going around just sulking about the mortality of everything, and the only thing that is pulling me away from this soul crushing depression moods I get is some sort of moderate escapism like getting really involved into video games or anime.

"You don't want stakes or risks in your life?"

No. I can't restart real life.

edited 10th Feb '11 9:16:47 PM by Thorn14

Does truth have value?

edited 10th Feb '11 9:59:51 PM by Grain

Anime geemu wo shinasai!

Truth has instrumental value.

Just because life doesn't have any meaning, doesn't mean that there isn't any general drive for humans.

Life doesn't have meaning. But humans naturally have pleasure drive. And since there's no greater meaning than that, there's no reason that humans shouldn't seek it. In fact, it seems like the most logical course of action.

I did not mean to imply that life "has no objective meaning", and yet somehow had "objective meaning" in seeking pleasure. Merely that seeking pleasure is a logical course of action. Giving pleasure a "should". But not a "real purpose". I apologize for the miscommunication.

I chose that wording because it's something to relate to. Humans tend to talk from life as if there is meaning, to reproduce or act morally or serve a God. So I decided push that contrast that if anything is rational to do, and find purpose, it would be enjoying life. Kind of like how many Atheists say, "because there is no afterlife, you should focus on enjoying life as you have it now". Now I'm a bit irritated, because I'm usually the one telling others that life doesn't have objective meaning. But fell into a pitfall I usually go for the jugular for in others. Though at the end of the day it's a contextual issue.

Or more, it's a bit annoying to have someone try to teach you a lesson that "Life has no objective meaning", right after you just said it. As if you yourself didn't just say "Life has no objective meaning", which I did. I kind of badly worded something, I suppose. And perhaps also "purpose" was a bad word to use there. The word I should have been looking for is "drive".

edited 11th Feb '11 12:48:59 AM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]