shine on
edited 9th Dec '14 2:42:47 AM by crimsonstorm15
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
Staring At My Own Grave
Okay... I'm wondering if this annoys more people here than just me. Do any of you read any kind of "faithy" things online, blogs and such, like I do?
I like looking in on Progressive Christianity blogs, because how I feel "most like" right now, if I were into labels. People writing under that flag are a diverse group. I tend to like hunting them out because that's where you find the people who don't have the "traditional" hard stances on Hell, it's where you find the social justice people, people who like science and have nuanced thinking on matters of faith, and the people who don't think you have to be a Republican to be Christian, and etc.
However, among them, you find people who believe in the core things that the rest do - The Resurrection, Heaven / Eternity and the like... Maybe they honestly wrestle with doubts, but that's where they stand. It's where I stand. They don't look down on people for believing in things, because they do, too.
And then, there are those who write about "giving up Eternity" and how Christianity is all-metaphor for simply making a better world and how actually believing in any of the core things thereof makes you dumb.... aaaaaaand.... I wonder why these people are calling themselves "Christians" at all instead of Atheists for Jesus or Deists Who Like Christian Worldly Philosophy. I mean, for one thing, I think the smart people they are trying to impress would be a lot happier with them if they just ditched the "Christian" label and were honest about liking the philosophy without liking the supernaturalism. For another thing, they wouldn't be doing what I feel is flying a false flag.
There is just something hurtful when I click on a blog title / article summary that promises some interesting wisdom from "my side" only to actually read the article and find them looking down on me/people like me as dumb hicks because, like idiot children, we ACTUALLY STILL BELIEVE IN THINGS and apparently need to "evolve" - apparently into people who don't believe in God but still like to use God-language. Sorry, no dice with me. I'm not a spiritual vegetarian. I crave meat. I try to avoid titles that I see that promise condescension, but sometimes, I'll get blindsided by something that looks like thoughts on Christianity that seems to only exist to tell non-believers "Not in the face! Not in the face! I'm actually one of you and don't like the actually-believing hicks, either!" It's kind of like that episode of The Simpsons where Lisa went to a fancy prep-school and met the student baseball team but they "didn't ACTUALLY play baseball, they only analyzed the physics of the game."
I'm not too angry. I'm glad that people who don't believe in things can still draw some good things from our scriptures and ideas and not think we are completely evil, and even kind of want to be us, but I do find it unpleasant to, you know, seek out a "safe place" with people as nutty in the imagination and hope department as I am only to find that they aren't and they think I'm a dumb child for even wanting after things like Heaven and more than temporal meaning.
I just think those people need to find a new name for themselves and stop flying a false flag.
In which I attempt to be a writer.
Chapter 1 (Discontinued)
I think those people do these things, because they chose to.
Thei'yre reasons, nuances, aims, goals, raison d'etre, or whims don't make sense to anyone outside their skull. They want to do this, so they do.
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I don't read any religious writing other than the Bible itself. Anyone arrogant enough to put their individual interpretation into a faux-self-help wrapper can't be trusted.
Hell, I'm even careful about which Bibles I read. I made the mistake of getting one with little essays based on topics scattered throughout. To give you a hint how much credibility the writer had, though, one of his previous works was titled Correct, But Not Politically Correct, a book on why he thought we shouldn't allow LGBT rights. I wouldn't trust a bigot like that with my afternoon entertainment, let alone my soul.
edited 10th Dec '14 1:59:20 PM by BaffleBlend
"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Staring At My Own Grave
It kind of happens the other way, too...
One blogger I read is Frank Schaffer. He's the son of famous Evangelist, Francis Schaffer, but has rejected daddy's ways... almost. He's rejected the the specific political-right/strict Evangelisim but hasn't, it seems, rejected the fervor. I've enjoyed reading a lot of his blog posts and articles because he speaks to me in regards to "being between faith and doubt" and in it being okay to embrace some uncertainty. (If you have faith, doubt it sometimes, if you're a "doubter" doubt your doubt sometimes). However, I shy away from some of his posts because he does strike me as having anger issues and is prone into going into some vicious political rants (just shows me that people who claim to see everyone as human often don't if the right button is pressed) and because he is REALLY FREAKIN' INSISTENT upon selling a book of his that I think is horribly titled.
He's known as the guy who claims to be "an atheist who believes in God." He's not. According to the posts I've read of him, he's not an atheist who supports "God as an idea" but is someone who does actually believe most of the time, does actually pray and for all his it's okay to be a bit agnostic attitude, the title of his book and his self-proclamation just pisses me off. I feel like he's unfairly taking identity from people he is not a part of. If a person still believes in one or more gods and prays sincerely, then, no... he shouldn't be calling himself an "atheist" just because he seems to think it's a cool word for "doubt" or wants to get attention by shit-stirring.
I am left baffled by how such a clearly intelligent man can be, in my eyes, so dumb about that.
In the end, it's just the identity-taking thing that bothers me, I think. People calling themselves "Christian" without really believing in the cores of Christianity, people calling themselves "atheists" when they regularly pray... It makes me think maybe I should wear rainbow everything and other LGBT symbols while I'm an Ace because "I like rainbows" or call myself Black when I am Caucasian... ugh.
As for "wrapping things in a self-help package," I will confess that one of the books I have in my closet in a box of books is "The Purpose Driven Life." I got it in a fit of being desperate in dealiing with my depression, read a few pages into it and decided that it wasn't going to work for me. I wound up just kind of keeping it around as a "Maybe I'll revisit this someday" things... and then the author's son committed suicide and I kind of decided um... yes, as a preventative for that, maybe this book will not work so well. I hate to accuse someone who lost someone like that... I know better than most people how random-triggery mental health is, but you know... I can't help but think of it as "telling," a "It's not your fault what happened, but I know that you cannot save me," thing. So, it remains in the closet, along with some old college textbooks I could not return.
edited 10th Dec '14 5:45:29 PM by Shadsie
In which I attempt to be a writer.
I've never been able to get through The Purpose-Driven Life either. I kinda think it's just one of those books, you know, that you buy to guilt yourself into being more purpose-driven without actually dealing with your lack of purpose. One of these days you'll actually read it! one of these days.
A couple weeks ago I went through the blog of a former Christian who'd been through quite a lot of spiritual/emotional abuse through the church and her family. It was harsh and hard to read. It can be harder in some ways for women to break out of that than it can be for guys, I think. But that sorta ties into the patriarchy/feminist issues.
ophelia, you're breaking my heart
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My mother owns TPDL, too. I just didn't trust it from the start. I didn't even know about what happened.
"It's liberating, realizing you never need to be competent." — Ultimatepheer
Staring At My Own Grave
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theologyintheraw/2014/12/angels-dont-have-wings/
—- Something that mildly annoys me: When people spend a lot of energy complaining about angels. It's worse when I've seen it in secular publications ("How do people believe in these things when physics says it's impossible for them to have wings like that?") Umm.... Both you theologians and you secular snarkers, LEARN YOUR ART HISTORY, DAGANABBIT.
OF COURSE wings on the messengers of God aren't Biblical. Freaky Neon Genesis Evangelion style-creatures are more Biblical than our Christmas cards. And yes, this does need to be known - not so much for our souls as for Rule of Cool, but it baffles me how people go on about this without much of a mention of "Yes! Wings were a deliberate addition by Renaissance artists to convey otherworldiness and because they had a jones on for Ancient Greek art."
Does no one study art anymore? Sad one time art major is sad.
Also, I have a bit of an odd confession. In some of my darkest thoughts, particularly after arguing with antitheists or reading anything about fundamentalists behaving badly and survivors of abuse, or just when I get into my little personal depression-balls, I start thinking "Maybe the world would be a better place if we all did a mass suicide pact and left the world to the rationals." - Does anyone else ever have this thought, or do I really need to get back in touch with a shrink? My last therapist helped me a little, but they've never been able to erase this feeling.
In which I attempt to be a writer.
Chapter 1 (Discontinued)
The problem with that is darkly, if all the irrational people died, that would leave a gaping hole in human society which would have to be filled by the non-elite rationals, and there are far too few of those. Everyone is irrational in some form or manner, from their background, mental aptitute (or mental handicaps), and it all comes down to what they believe around them.
You only need to get in touch with a shrink if you want help. If you are fine, then there is no need for one. "People who don't think they want help, can't be helped" or whatever.
On the topic of angels, they are whatever anyone says there are. There isn't a scientific society which decides what they objectively look like. There's writings, but new writings are made from time to time. Does the older writing take priority, when people had limited ways of describing what/who they experienced, or are updated writings more valid because of their recentness?
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Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
A silly question.
Would it be inappropriate to say "God rest his soul" to show your respect...when the dead person or/and the listener is an atheist?
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
Considering that angels are spirits, they could presumably take any form they wanted to.
Chapter 1 (Discontinued)
If he adhered to the ideals of Cessationof Existence after death, then it does not matter. If you prayed for him, did nothing, or stab at ye, it would not matter to him.
Plus, can't Atheists be welcomed to heaven now or was that a facebook rumor too?
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Hell NO!
We can't leave the rationals behind to run the place. They'd ruin everything within a year! The French tied to remove the church completely and that resulted in hundreds of people dieing every week. (Granted I think it is also because it took place during the French revaluation because I can't remember. what that period was called if it wasn't).
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
) and certainly worse than an irrational but well-meaning person. So even if "rational people" existed, they'd not only have the best among them, they'd also have the most dangerous among them. Then comes the problem that even the most rational people have blind spots and derp moments and a fool can have a moment of insight.There simply are no rational and irrational people. Some are a bit more prone to illogical thinking but they're not incapable of it either. Even "smart" people like Aristoteles have numerous logical missteps in their thinking. You would have to kill all humans if you want to rid yourself of irrationality.
edited 12th Dec '14 8:57:55 AM by Antiteilchen
Is that one of the reasons for Kill All Humans plots?
Chapter 1 (Discontinued)
Yes, it's one thing to point out why all people should die, for the greater good. Trying to convince those with families, careers, wives/husbands, children, and other loves that they need to die is the hard part.
Irrational people would fight against dying for a better world because they believe they're already in it, and rational people would fight against dying for a better world they won't be part of it.
Warning: This poster is known to the state of California to cause cancer. Cancer may not be available in your country.
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
Opponents of Christianity, and religions in general, seems to LOVE to quote this:
"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called Religion."
Well, I hope you are happy living in a world basically shaped by those delusional people.
edited 13th Dec '14 7:22:46 PM by dRoy
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called Religion."
Well, I hope you are happy living in a world basically shaped by those delusional people.
Right because there was never a atheist or rationalist who was ever crazy in one way or another.
edited 14th Dec '14 6:39:10 AM by chaosconsortium
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
The quote doesn't say atheists can't be delusional. As the quote implies, everyone can be insane. It's when a lot of people share the same delusion that it is called a religion instead.
The message behind the quote isn't only believed by atheists though. If you believe your religion is right, then all others must be delusional in some form. Atheists just apply that to all religions equally.
Intelligence is knowing that tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not using tomato in a fruit salad, yada yada yada found the bard.