Christian tropers, join together!

A Genuine Friend.

The Right Foundation.

A War of Words.

Undeserved Praise.

One Who Understands.

Sometimes I forget just how clueless my mother is on faith issues. Everything comes so easy to her, so she practically makes fun of me when I tell her how scared I am over something faith-related^note Or how much she's scaring me when she's the one bringing it up. And the worst part is, I don't think she's capable of comprehending how much it's messing me up.

Clean the Closet.

Tiny Island.

that sucks.

@Baffle Blend: Is there someone you know that you can talk to?

First Response.

I have a question about a verse that's bugged me for a little while(paraphrased): "and they said to him, Teacher, who sinned, this man (emphasis mine) or his parents, that he was born blind?'' Does the fact that a man could have sinned before he was born indicate a belief in some kind of reincarnation, or a proto-Calvinist "he was destined to be a sinner, so God blinded him pre-emptively"?

All Together.

Unfortunately, no. Nearly everyone I know is either a hard-fisted anti-theist or a fundamentalist lunatic. It's probably not as extreme as I think it is (I have a bit of a persecution complex, you see), but the point is that I don't feel safe about the topic.

That's a toughie. I'm no Bible scholar, but it could be talking about Original Sin. Don't take my word for it, though.

I've seen it used as evidence of a belief in reincarnation among the people of the time and place. The same with, if I'm not mistaken, some of the people thinking that Jesus was Elisha or Elija or Moses reborn... forget where that is, too lazy to look it up. Again, if I'm not mistaken, reincarnation was a fairly popular belief among the Greeks in the area at the time and some Jews picked up on it.

I know my father used to cite that verse as evidence for reincarnation in the Bible, despite that going against a lot of modern Christian cosmology.

Personally, if so, I say "Cool!" I actually don't mind the idea of being reincarnated. I actively like the idea of being able to further learn and grow in physical life and to make some kind of karmic amends for my mistakes. I don't care if Jesus loves me and forgives me, I feel like I need to make up for things I cannot currently make up for.

I'm not sure that verse is about reincarnation; after all, Hebrews 9:27 reads, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." Personally, I find it hard to reconcile this with reincarnation.

On top of this, there are a couple verses in Psalms that I can't help but find somewhat related to their question. Psalm 51:5 says "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Similarly, 58:3 states, "Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward and speak lies."

Interestingly enough, I'd also say the first part of their question is a bit strange to me because the Bible also teaches that children aren't punished for their parents' sins (e.g., Ezekiel 18:20).

You can PM any of us if you want. I have a feeling that I went through something similar, though I don't know how much I could tell you.

Personally, I am not arguing that the Bible actually supports reincarnation. I don't have enough scholarship to make those kinds of arguments. I am merely saying "Yeah, I have seen that verse used for that" by scholars who did online articles. And my dad.

I can, just as an imagination/though experiment, say regarding the verse from Hebrews is that "not only did that line come later and would therefore have no relevance to what common folk-beliefs were going on in the time before it was penned," but maybe "once to die and then the judgement" only regards "the life you are living now." Presumably, you only die "as yourself" once, and then, if some essence of you or your karma is reincarnated, you're a different person, essentially. You could also, as thought-experiment, claim that the writer of that verse has as limited an understanding of God and Eternity as we do and that it winds up being his understanding or his opinion that we die first and then the judgement. - It mostly depends upon how "directly inspired by God" you think any part of the Bible really is. If you're like me and don't think God handed fully-edited pages fresh from the celestial typewriter in perfect English down to Men, there can be an openness in what you're willing to imagine about it all.

Again, even if "once to die and then the judgement" really does mean what most modern interpretations / common Christian theology think it means, it really bears nothing on the Disciples spouting off Greek-inspired folk beliefs they may have had at the time regarding people being able to "sin before they were born."

New to the Family.

The Hunchback Of Notre Dame is one of my favorite movies. Among other reasons, it's one of the few works that manages to portray religious fanaticism in a bad light without decrying religion itself.

Working for the Wind.

Shadowed.

Music and Megaphone.

What Love Is. (baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me... no more... )

Mosaic.