Elder Scrolls General

There is not yet one. This bugs me tremendously. So let's start one, eh?

To get things started, I've heard people express confusion about the ending of Daggerfall and the "Dragonbreak." The short answer is that Auri-El/Akatosh/Alduin (depending on culture, the different names have different aspects) is the Dragon that is the God of Time, who granted linearity of time to Tamriel. He did this by forming the Council of Gods, and that point in time and space is called the Zero Stone. It is tied to the Adamantine Tower, where the Council tore out Lorkhan's heart and cast it to the earth, the volcano Vvardenfell forming where the Heart lands. Thus does the Heart of Lorkhan become the First Stone and the Red Mountain its tower.

The stones and the towers are the metaphysical foundations of the reality of Mundus. The Dwemer (dwarves), in their attempt at godhood, built the Walking Brass Tower, (A)numidium. Any activation and use of this Tower brings about its own timelines and realities. When Tiber Septim used it to besiege the city Alinor, the battle lasted one hour and yet started in the Mythic Era and ended well in the Fifth (the events of Oblivion ushering in the Fourth, this gives you an idea of the time scales). You can still see Altmer in psycho-chrysales battling Anumidium, but doing so requires a certain extent of insanity.

The activiation of Anumidium in Daggerfall resulted ultimately in the destruction of the Mantella. The Mantella contained the soul of the Underking, both at once the Imperial Battlemage Zurin Arctus and the Shezzarine Wulfharth. That it contained the soul of the Shezzarine is important, because the Shezzarine is the avatar of Shezzar, who is Shor, who is Lorkhan. Lorkhan and Auri-El are the same being, a coin of King and Rebel forever spinning. Thus, by the destruction of the Mantella and the use of a Tower, Auri-El was temporarily wiped from existence in a localized region.

That region was the Illiac Bay, and the non-existence of Auri-El/Akatosh/Alduin was the Dragon Break.

edited 29th Jan '11 4:28:03 PM by Canondorf

If anyone can tell me how to insert line breaks I would be very thankful.

I find that hitting enter twice does the job.

Otherwise, I believe it's two backslashes.

edited 28th Jan '11 1:02:24 AM by Legionnaire

So I've finally completed Oblivion's main quest not too long ago after getting sidetracked by endless side quests and it was very boring. The ending was cool, though, and I still liked the game in general quite a lot.

Is Morrowind's main quest more interesting than Oblivion's?

Depends. Morrowind's main quest involves a lot of walking around talking to people and doing favours for them to get their support. There's a fair bit of investigating and reading to be done, and no quest compass to help you. The plot is basically about your rise to power as a political figure in the game world. I liked it because of this, but many don't.

edited 28th Jan '11 4:02:10 AM by Talby

I couldn't get past the first main quest quest. The one with the Dwemer thingamajig.

If you really want to get into it, the main quest is that Dagoth Ur is dead and currently residing in the Dreamsleeve, where souls go to be recycled. Since he used Kagrenac's Tools on the Heart of Lorkhan he was still tied to the Mundus so that his dreaming creates a lucid dream-self in the Mundus (this is why he leaves no body when you "kill" him). His ultimate plan is to use a Tower of his own making to eliminate all life in the Mundus and eventually all the et'ada (spirits, gods, Daedra, etc.). Through this he would be eliminating all the Godhead's dream-selves, leaving him the only dreamer and therefore usurping the Godhead. The Tribunal has no knowledge of this, except for Vivec, who had plans set in motion to kill Dagoth Ur and the Heart of Lorkhan (thus eliminating Dagoth's connection to the Mundus, allowing his soul to be recycled). You as the player are either that plan, or a spanner set in the works by Azura for the Tribunal's insulting her millennia ago, or both.

Canondorf: I am no export, but from what I have read........ When you become a God, you gain absolute control over reality.
When you have different dimensions where people become Gods at roughly the same moement? What they do is that they attempt to rewrite each others dimensions while they act.
The end result is that everyone won, the Golem got destroyed, and all contradictions get merged into 1 reality.
Basically something to do with that a God can anchor himself, but can rewrite reality.
Also: Add backslash backslash at the end of each line.

edited 29th Jan '11 6:21:48 AM by del_diablo

As far as I understand, though, simply controlling Anumidium doesn't make one god. In fact, the only person to become a god out of the whole ordeal was Mannimarco, who notably did this by sacrificing the Mantella and not using it to activate Anumidium. Also, interesting thing: Akatosh is time. The Dragon Break is literally the Dragon breaking.

Even if Morrowind's plot was Azura's plan, wouldn't the fact that you mantle Nerevar make it not matter as much? You still become the Nerevarine, or am I wrong?

"Mantling and incarnation are separate roads; do not mistake this. The latter is built from the cobbles of drawn-bone destiny. The former: walk like them until they must walk like you" - Nu-Hatta of the Sphinxmoth Inquiry Tree, Michael Kirkbride

You become an incarnation of the Nerevar, but it is not the same as mantling. It isn't even one of the Walking Ways (Prolix Tower, Anumidium, Enantiomorphy, Mantling, CHIM, Scarab that Becomes the New Man). Also note that "Nerevar" is Ashlander for "warlord" and the Nerevarine is simply someone who can complete the trials and wear the ring.

And mantling is only the re-enactment of the convention.

Oh, okay then. Thanks.

I really need to replay Morrowind.

I just play Morrowind to live in that game. Read the in-game books, mostly.

I can never find what I am looking for in-game, so I usually stick to the Imperial Library.

I feel I should elaborate: It was destiny that Nerevar would be reborn, not that you would be the Nerevarine.

I'm confused about something. Is there a difference between Anuiel and Anu/Sithis and Padomay? I understand that Anuiel is the soul of Anu, and Sithis is the soul of Padomay. But is there a difference?

It's the same duality that always repeats across various creation gradients: Anu/Padomay, Anuel/Sithis, Auriel/Lorkhan... or what do you mean?

I'm asking what makes Sithis different from Padomay, and Anuiel different from Anu. I worded my question horribly, sorry.

But I think I understand it after looking around some more. Sithis is the "Nothingness", while Padomay is the "IS NOT"; while Anuiel is the "Everything" to Anu's "IS"?

edited 25th Mar '11 2:29:46 PM by SilentColossus

As said, the difference are the different "creation gradients". It's like a fractal - no matter how much you go into detail, even if you use microscopes on it, you will always find the ever same structures on every level. Hence on every level you will find a Padomaic and an, ah... Anuic? Anuid? force.

On the first creation gradient you have Anu and Padomay and only those two concepts. Than, through introspection more concepts form, and on that level you have Anuel and Sithis as the two equivalent forces. And during the creation of the world you have Auriel/Akatosh (though of course there are differences between Auriel and Akatosh...) and Lorkhan as the two equivalent forces.

The Anuid forces are always potential, wholeness, stasis. The Padomaic forces are always actualisation, nothingness, limitation, borders. The exact differences between Anu and Anuiel, and Padomay and Sithis are hence rather irrelevant - all exist just so that the Anu/Padomay duality will be played out on every creation gradient anew, and if there were a new one (the Aeyleids or what's the name tried that, to create a new one, a wheel within the wheel) the same duality would be present there, too.

So, ah, summary: Anuiel simply is Anu on a lesser level, and Sithis simply is Padomay on a lesser level. I guess your explanation actually said the same just more poetic as compared to my rather mechanical explanation, heh.

edited 26th Mar '11 2:19:56 AM by Octo

^ I think he is confused about the context. Anu and Padomay are two halves of everything, while Auri-El and Lorkhan are the head deities of pantheons. If Anui-El and Sithis are the souls of Anu and Padomay, then how do they exist? Are they the heads of pantheons of a higher reality? Do they exist only as themselves, like Anu and Padomay?

Anu and Padomay are intersecting bubbles. Where they mix is the Grey Maybe where they are Anui-El and Sithis. These forms then fractured into everything else.

That's my understanding, at any rate.

edited 27th Mar '11 7:54:52 PM by Canondorf

This thread should be renamed "Elder Scrolls Lore Thread".

That was my intention. Most discussion of the games themselves usually occurs in the Skyrim thread.

Well, since we're talking about lore, is Akaviri a material used to make katanas and only katanas?

What's the best way to learn about the lore? Dive right in at the Imperial Library at random?

A little outdated, but the best starting place.

edited 27th Mar '11 9:12:17 PM by Canondorf