State of the Union

Being the party of "no" isn't necessarily a bad thing if what you're saying "no" to is something that might be a bad idea.

What we have to watch out for is saying no for purposes other than doing the right thing.

edited 26th Jan '11 9:20:50 AM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

Would you prefer "The Republicans are the party of 'My way or else!'"?

—R.J.

^Speaking for myself..

Yes. Then there could be a discussion about what values and priorities a nation should have, and which ways would be the best ways to go about reaching those values/priorities. Instead, it's about tribal power.

My feeling is that the value system underlying Republican policy is that there should be an economic system that actively rewards the winners and actively punishes the losers, as well as maintaining a social system that empowers and encourages authoritarian social structure to encourage and promote certain ideals of social "normality".

I think it's a fair debate to see if people agree if those values are ones they share or not. (FWIW I don't think that every Republican actively thinks that. I actually think most care little past, again, tribalism. Making sure our money keeps on flowing but the other guy's doesn't)

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

Whoa boy, this is why I don't talk politics. People on the other side of the spectrum talking about what my side believes. :V

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.

saladofstones, I thought you were Belgian for some reason. :S

edited 26th Jan '11 11:28:59 AM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

That's standard discourse!

But you know, it's all the things you can't measure that I worry about America. Other than improving healthcare more, I would like to see a lot of work done on the education system. I saw hints of it in Obama's speech.

They are the party of no. They have voted in lockstep against everything the Democrats propose, including things that Republicans introduced earlier. Have some data.

Number of filibusters by congress◊

Filibusters of non-controversial nominees (64 were pending in March)

A few bills voted along party lines:

ARRA: 3 Republican votes

DREAM act: 3 Republican votes

Tax credits for small businesses (!): 2 Republican votes

Kagan's confirmation: 5 Republican votes

Continuing unemployment compensation: 2 Republican votes

And of course the Affordable Care Act: Exactly zero Republican votes

edited 26th Jan '11 11:40:43 AM by jewelleddragon

But that's "putting nations on a pedestal". The post you were responding to simply talked about pointing out other nations doing better in order to spur us toward technological advancement.

In other words, precisely what happened in the space race. I'd say that that was quite a resounding success.

If anything, the current problem is that we don't have a conveniently-mentally-packaged common enemy to unite against.

Besides, plenty of people like Carter. See the "post your favorite US president" thread in IJAM.

People only like Carter for what he did after he left office.

edited 26th Jan '11 3:25:58 PM by silver2195

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

Carter was a highly intelligent leader; he just wasn't a very charismatic one.

He made a lot of serious mistakes, like supporting the Shah of Iran (which led to the hostage crisis) and his complete failure to improve the economy.

edited 26th Jan '11 3:31:50 PM by silver2195

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

@pagad: dual-citizen. I'm both.

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.

I like some of the things Carter did in office, ergo your previous statement is false. Sure, he made mistakes, but he was in office at a very difficult time. Not everyone gets to be Clinton and preside over eight years of peace and prosperity.

edited 26th Jan '11 5:17:04 PM by jewelleddragon

^

I can't help but agree, and I'm not a huge fan of Carter.

Then again I don't think people give that same sort of Credit to Bush Jr. I loathe Bush Jr. but September 11th was one big shit sandwich, and as president he had to take a big ol' bite. There's no way to do that without making some unpopular decisions and some mistakes. Though that's not a good excuse for all the things he did, he still made lots of mistakes, but for anyone who was old enough to remember the political climate in the direct aftermath of September 11th, our entire nation wanted blood, so yeah, going into Afghan was a very popular decision at the time.

edited 26th Jan '11 5:38:37 PM by Barkey

Fair enough about 9/11. Had Bush not made any kind of military response, he presumably would be remembered as the biggest pussy in history.

Military response in Afghanistan was the right thing to do anyways. The Taliban wouldn't hand over Bin Laden nor did they oppose what happened.

The situation would not have ended any other way than military over the affair.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, we don't have Bin Laden.

I don't think he's living either way. Either he got buried under Tora Bora or he died hated in the mountains.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

If he had just gone into Afghanistan, we wouldn't be having as many problems today.

edited 26th Jan '11 7:38:43 PM by storyyeller

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

Didn't he produce an audiorecording recently?

I've heard released but if we're talking about the same one, it referenced some pretty old things.

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.

It referenced the pakistani floods which is recent. Whether it is bin laden or not is the real question but the problem is that every intelligence agency has an different agenda when it comes to him being alive. CIA would benefit if bin laden were alive to receive extra funding which they can funnel into whatever they want, considering their very limited oversight from congress. The european intelligence agencies would be more concerned with homegrown issues and domestic terrorism but they might benefit somewhat from bin laden's existence. However, the more socialist the government, the less they'd want him to be alive because they don't want to spend resources into military exercises. Unfortunately when it comes to intelligence issues, conspiracy theories are all you have.

I'm still of the mind that Carter would've negotiated a release of the hostages if Reagan wasn't secretly cutting deals with the Iranians. After all, Nixon did something similar with Johnson and Vietnam.

—R.J.

edited 27th Jan '11 10:19:44 AM by rjung

>reagen cutting deal with Iranians

What the fuck?

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.