Tales Series

I don't consider any of the new cast members especially ludger to be improvements.

I don't agree at all. I also like Xillia 2 to be one of the best tales games so I think we just won't agree on stuff however.

Ludger I would agree with but Gaius, Alt!Milia, and Muset I would disagree with. Normal Milla is the real bad character in it.

Alt!Milla was terribly written as far as I'm concerned. Elle was the only new addition that I found succesful. Muzet...well, I prefer her to the terrible package she was in the first game. Gaius is always rad.

Symphonia is okay. The gameplay is 3D but your movement is stuck in 3D. The T/S system and the whatchacallthem skill system is terrible and a huge step back from Destiny 2, plus the graphics are pretty bad even for an old game, but the story is enjoyable and Kratos, Zelos, Colette are all lovely characters.

Is there a "consensus" of any sort on which is the best Tales game?

At least on this forum or in this thread? If not, I'd be interested in seeing personal rankings.

EDIT:

A pester elsewhere about Symphonia: "There's lots of reading that scrolls through automatically and no voices and it is paced towards the Japanese text. So if something is short to say in Japanese it goes by quick. But if it translates to a longer sentence, you only have half a second to catch it and it's super annoying to quickly miss parts of dialog."

This is worrisome for me because I can't read very fast. Is this a constant problem?

edited 29th Apr '15 12:55:09 AM by Nikkolas

It is only for skits. The skits were only unvoiced because they ran out of time to finish the dub.

As for the best Tales game I would say Graces F takes the cake for the top, the battle system is so good and a hell of a lot of fun. The comedy is also top notch.

Symphonia would probably be second just cause the story and characters are quite good but the combat is very dated but still fun.

I'm partial to Abyss myself.

I have the fondest memories of Vesperia, although in retrospect the plot just kind of falls apart in the middle.

Likewise I'd say Graces F simply because that's the first one I played.

Symphonia was the first one I played, I loved it back then but looking back at it now it was pretty flawed and IMO the battle system in Graces F was next to perfect outside of the lack of aerial combat. Hearts R would be a close third I think, it is a hell of a lot of fun although a little on the short side.

I wish they would PS 2 classics up abyss and release the PS 3 vesperia though, those wernt bad.

edited 29th Apr '15 3:50:24 AM by Memers

I want them to PS 2 Classics Abyss and release it on EU PSN as well.

Or at least a HD Remix thing.

The first one I played was actually Phantasia with that old fan-translation. Then Symphonia, then Abyss, and then Vesperia. At the time, I remember thinking each was better than the last, but then Graces disappointed me a bit. I can't say it's not just a nostalgia filter, but at least it's not just sticking to the first one I played.

Thus far I played Symphonia, Abyss, Vesperia,Graces,Xillia in that order (I also own Xillia 2 but I postponed it almost immediately for a time where I am in Tales-mood+ not depressed). For me it goes:

Best story: Symphonia, runner up: Abyss

Best Combat: tie between Graces and Xillia

Best Characters: Vesperia runner up: Xillia

Best Dungeons: Symphonia runner up: Graces

Best Overall/Least flawed: Abyss

Abyss is the other Tales game I heard a lot about back in the day and thus have wanted to try it.

The main character, Luke I believe his name is (Luke fon Fabre maybe? That's an awesome name), is supposed to be one of the best JRPG Leads of all time.

Then again, this being the Internet, for all the praise I heard him get, others countered with teh fact that he "stopped being interesting" after he stopped being an asshole. Basically according to them once he got his head on straight and dealt with whatever his issues were, he was just boring and plain for the remainder of the game.

In any event I've wanted to play the game and see for myself why some love/hate him. He's the only Tales character I've heard a lot about, relatively speaking.

Symphonia or Abyss would be my personal favorites in terms of story, characters, and worlds, although the gameplay of the former is somewhat dated. I still feels Symphonia plays well, having been designed with the whole 2D system in mind, but coming back to it from previous games does feel restrictive, I must admit.

As for Xillia 2, I haven't finished it yet (most recently completed the Seafall Phantom), but I've enjoyed it quite a bit. Ludger's bland, but Gaius and Muzet are both interesting additions to the party both due to character reactions to them and their own contributions, Alt!Milla is interesting because she possesses many of Prime!Milla's traits (intense determination, fondness for humans, and a strong sense of justice), but goes about them differently. Prime!Milla is more of a leader, while Alt!Milla is a bit of a follower (primarily for Alt!Muzet, but she's less active than Prime!Milla even after the fact), so Alt!Milla's determination shows up in holding long arguments with eight year olds and cooking, and her sense of justice manifests in talking about the problem as opposed to doing (some might call it whining, especially after she bitches about the job board for the dozenth time). Elle is quite fun, and I like her interactions with the party as a whole, though I find it amusing how seriously people take the eight year old Ludger sees fit to bring along into the constant danger they face.

He never deals with his issues. His character arc spans the entire game from beginning to end. Personally I would call that a good thing, but I can see how some people would find it annoying.

Not that he's a static character or anything, he just never "finishes" his arc.

edited 29th Apr '15 4:58:00 AM by Clarste

I've heard people complain that Luke becomes a complete loser-doormat which I find untrue but whatever~

As for rankings, storywise Abyss and Hearts are the strongest all around. Gameplay is a littel more complicated, but my personal list right now is Hearts R = Innocence R = Destiny DC > Graces = Destiny 2 = NDX = Rebirth > Vesperia > Abyss = Zestiria > Hearts DS > Xillia = Xillia 2 > Symphonia > Phantasia Cross > Innocence DS.

Zestiria listed as coming to PS4 by retailer.

Gaius & Muzet aren't new cast memebers. I don't know why someone would think I'm lumping them in with To X 2's terrible newbies.

That still leaves Alt!Milla, who while kinda whiny has some interesting interactions with people regarding her bizarro world nature, Elle who plays surprisingly well off of the other cast members, Julius who so far has proven an interesting case of Friendly Enemy, Bisley who hasn't done much yet in my run and is obviously a villain but who seems affable enough, Nova who is a load of fun even though she owns your soul, and Rideaux who is delightfully fun to hate for being a conniving scumbag while still seeming decently relevant to the plot. Haven't met Elle's dad yet, though I expect to, and I haven't seen much of Chronos outside of that one fractured dimension, but I've heard many unpleasant things about him.

And I have officially purchased my first two Tales games.

I got Symphonia and, since I just purchased an Xbox 360, I decided to snag Vesperia as well.

Also starting the Shin Megami Tensei series as well. I got Digital Devil Saga 1 off PSN along with Symphonia.

Here's hoping my first forays into these new franchises will turn out well. If nothing else, I've heard a lot of good things about Symphonia's plot and Vesperia's...uh, maybe not plot but I've heard good things about its characters, or its main character anyhow.

I do play RPG's for the story/characters first and foremost.

I watched a video of the first few moments of the Destiny remake and right off the bat here's the differences I saw between it and the PSX original

• The story already begins with Stahn being cornered by the Draconis security and its captain who keeps playing the pronoun game, then the monsters attack. In the original, two guys find Stahn sleeping like an idiot in a store room and bring him to a captain, who has him swab the deck to make himself useful before the monsters attack. Remake misses out on asleep Stahn's "Ofaay..."
• In the remake, Dymlos starts talking to Stahn as soon as he enters the storeroom he's in, but keeps strangely quiet once Stahn takes him in hand. In the original, Dymlos only starts talking to Stahn the second Stahn pulls him off the wall, but he certainly doesn't stop there.
• Dymlos isn't as snippy to Stahn in the remake as he is in the original. So sadly, no "No, I'm a teapot! Of course I'm a sword!!!
• Stahn also figures out he needs to use the Draconis escape pod a lot sooner in the remake. In the original, Dymlos has to remind Stahn that he's still green and outnumbered. Plus the remake doesn't have Dymlos go Gunnery Sargeant on Stahn ("I'll spell it out for you. You're an inexperienced weakling! Crush them?! HAH! They'll crush YOU!")
• The remake video I saw didn't have the bit wher eyou can sample beastmeat stew in the midst of a crisis
• Major change here: In the remake, Rutee is on the Draconis as well, and clearly was looking for Dymlos.
• Stahn's pod crashes in a lake and he nearly drowns until Dymlos makes him fill a contract to survive, upon which Stahn vaporizes the whole lake...and falls asleep like a nonce. Granted, it was a big spell Stahn used, it wasn't like Stahn fell asleep after firing one Hadouken. Naturally in the original, the two are contracted as soon as Stahn pulls him off the wall and gets an earful. Also Stahn learns Fireball on the Draconis in the original, and outside Alba's cabin in the remake.
• The drowny bit wasn't in the original. The pod if I recall crashes in solid ground.
• The remake adds a jokey dream scene with Lilith in it.
• The remake moves Dymlos' long explanation on Swordians to inside Alba's cabin. The original has Dymlos exposit as soon as Stahn rips him off the wall.

• Also, not a comparison but kinda funny: Stahn talks about Dymlos in front of Garr, but Dymlos tells Stahn not to just idly mention him in front of others, because as far as they know, Garr can't hear Dymlos' voice, and Stahn'll just look insane. Or too much like Dante. (Garr CAN hear them but still.) And yet not a minute later, Dymlos is happy to give Stahn a tutorial on Swordians outside Alba's cabin in full view of Garr, and Dymlos does not mind Stahn holding Dymlos out in front of him and replying to his words.

edited 1st May '15 5:51:37 AM by MightyKombat

Woodrow is totally trolling at the beginning of the game. There's a scene when he leaves as soon as you get to the first town and Dymlos is suspicious so he goes "HEY YOU", which Stahn considers rude. Dymlos is like "I'll apologise if it turns out he can hear me", but Woodrow just plays it coy and laughs silently.

You were playing the 'favorite game' topic and I was not warned?

From the ones I played, tie between the ginormous amount of content in both Vesperia and Graces. The former has the best costumes and battle system (opinion may change once I play Xillia 2) and the latter has the best skits / sidequests in the series... as well as the least annoying Bonus Dungeon.

(Ommiting Symphonia 2 because the only thing going for it now is the characters [esp Emil] and I know I will get stoned for mentioning him )

By the way, we are now grinding for EXP, to go at least to lvl 100 which gives Malik his last B arte (there are others, but are even more grindy / annoying to get) Our best setup is Zhonecage's 4th floor for now: by the time we die we got enough money to buy another Mythril Sword to get us in. (Rush through the first time to get the Turtlez Flute: now you can buy essentials and charge the mixer anywhere!)

Any better way to grind, pre-Accel Mode? Rocky was the best way to do it on the Wii, but now you NEED Accel to pull off the piggyback exploit and PS 3 Rocky gives ZERO Exp... Floor 4 is essentially 1-hit Kill Festival. Bear slams? We die. Wolf fires laser beam? We kick the bucket. A boar starts ramming? We are goners. Once we went through 14 (FOURTEEN) Life Bottles in a single fight!

edited 1st May '15 8:21:28 AM by FlightMaster

Ah. Figures. Did the remake also add the other usual Tales series personality cliches too?

I'll keep watching some more, up until the group get to Harmentz for the first time an see what other differences are afoot.

edited 1st May '15 8:31:33 AM by MightyKombat