The New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium!

Razza frazza razza. There was a day-long silence before Hylarn asked if there was more to say, followed by three posts and another six-hour silence, so I thought it had.

If it hadn't, er, I guess we can hold two parallel conversations?

I could argue that she's consistently a bit of a jerk, but this is Gensokyo, so... I'll instead posit that the main divide was between SoEW and PoDD, when she's in stereotypical Boss Mode. Once she gets knocked out of that, she settles into a rude, condescending spirit who occasionally takes some figurative missteps, but will recover with an appropriate amount of bluster, or maybe an outrageous whopper.

Maybe some sort of fusion of Yukari and Suika?

You only need to apologize for writing a lot if you refuse to break things into paragraphs. Or use a terrible font. Or have intensely stupid things to say. Your post meets none of those conditions.

Is that the distinction, then? She's a ghost, just not that of a human? A youkai ghost? Are those a thing?

Interesting. Could Mima have been the Marisa to a previous Hakurei miko? Is that why she was sealed there, as a respectful burial, or an attempt to keep her around? Did Reimu end up releasing her from hell so she could return home in HRtP? And did Mima leave when she sensed Yukari waking up, and decided to bow out so a more proper miko mentor could move in?

Taken less literally, this opens up the possibility of Marisa unconsciously absorbing a bit of the youkai whose spells she swipes. Maybe she got a little more bookish after devising her Non-Directional Laser, and picked up some aggression after reverse-engineering her Master Spark. Taken more literally, we must wonder what Mima's motives were, and whether Marisa is even aware of it.

Ha! That'd be a great surprise reveal, wouldn't it? During a particularly intense battle, someone smacks the Mima right out of Marisa!

Yeah, I don't think the timeframes line up right. That said, there's the little story accompanying "Reincarnation" on the Dolls in Pseudo Paradise booklet:

"It's strange that there's a Western-style mansion in the middle of an uninhabited forest to begin with. The girl who lived there hardly ever came into town. But, lately, I've seen a girl who looks like her daughter. How do I know she had a daughter? Well, since the girl looks like she did when she was young..."

Sometime's gotta explain that, right? Just not sure if the Mima-Mama theory is the right one.

I dunno, I don't see what Mima would gain from this. She already hangs around the shrine a lot and annoys Reimu, and she's already pretty powerful, able to go toe-to-toe with the creator of a demon world.

Though I can't help but wonder if Nameless Hakurei Shrine Deity's anti-youkai blessing is a passive-aggressive way of saying "girl, get this shrimp-footed freeloader off of my property."

She certainly didn't do a good job reining Mima in during SoEW... so where did Marisa fit into Mima's vision for a post-revenge world? And why was Marisa willing to go along with it? If Marisa were ostracized for her magic, that may explain her willingness... could Mima have been seeking revenge on Marisa's behalf? Was the witch her Morality Pet in that sense?

So, over a dozen games later, where do we think Marisa's loyalties lie? Would she follow her old boss if Mima returned to make trouble, or fight alongside Reimu? Or take some sort of third option where she battles everyone and steals something?

She's actually been back for years now, just not enough people have seen the endings to have spotted her. ZUN laughs every time someone asks about her return.

Yeah, it's weird - Mima has qualities of her own, but I think by this point a large part of her fandom identity and popularity stems from being the PC-98 character people keep asking to return. So if she did, she's what, another magician? Another ghost? Another annoying mentor? Another acerbic incident resolver?

A weird thought just crossed my mind.

Mima has a very Koishi like existance in-universe. She hung out with Reimu, Marisa, and Alice when they were kids, and she was relevant to almost everything they did. Then one day they grew up and just kind of forgot about her.

Well, there was that one time when the shrine was being haunted by an Akuryou that Reimu remembers.

She's too self-aware to be empty like Koishi, but like I said it was weird thought, not a theory.

If by Reimu, Marisa, and Alice, you mean only Marisa, then yeah.

In either case, it is kind of sad most of the talk about Mima is either about her return or lack there of.

On the bright side, her music is great.

Well Mima kicked Alice in the head once. But Alice got kicked in the head so many times that day that she doesn't bother remembering individual perpetrators.

I am pretty sure that if that snippet from Dolls really was about Mima (I don't know for sure, as I am pretty sure the album as a whole is about a incident unrelated to anything.) then it was referring to the fact that she's been around for so long that the folks in the village assume the Mima who shows up now is the daughter of the Mima who hung around the mansion when they were young.

This is why she needs to stop making her ghost feets into normal feets. People are not noticing that she is a ghost and things like this happen.

As for Mima's personality...yeah, she is consistently an arrogant jerk I guess. But aside from that, the details change too much for me to really feel comfortable with pinning anything down aside from "arrogant jerk with a soft spot for Marisa" (and, as mentioned, in Mystic Square she grows a gimmick out of nowhere).

edited 7th Jun '13 8:52:47 AM by Otherarrow

I think that's part of the reason that people want to see her again; if ZUN gave her a character now, it'd be a lot more interesting and consistent than what we have.

I have to wonder whether she'd come back with a completely different character since she was so inconsistant. Retain her appearence with a completely different personality to fit the new canon.

I think if she still acts haughty and ends her sentences with music notes and such, no one will notice.

Does ZUN still use the musical notes and spoken hearts and stuff in dialogue? It looks like Mystia speaks with notes in PoFV... was Mima singing the whole time?

But natural. With any mildly popular PC-98 character, one of the first questions that comes to mind is why they didn't make the jump to Windows or what would happen if they had. And it's not like that's all there is to Mima - there's certainly something about her (her close relationship with two other characters) that makes the fandom miss her more than, say, Genji.

Mima owned a house? Maybe that's where Marisa's crib came from. Wonder what kind of stuff she inherited... and why an evil spirit needed a house in the forest...

Or not even that. Just look at Alice - suddenly no longer a child, different outfit, cold and distant instead of a pipsqueak - if it weren't for the name and book, we'd have little to link the two appearances.

So long as the character was called Mima, and was vaguely Mima-shaped, it ought to be enough... or would it? We might be able to politely overlook how nobody mentions the Makai-Alice connection in canon, but for someone like Mima, do we need an acknowledgement of how large a role she played in the early games? Would vague recognition from Reimu and Marisa be satisfying?

I mean, according to ZUN Genji retired to a pond in the back of the shrine. Even if we did miss him we know where he went.

Mima is something else because she's still the only playable character to not return to playable. I mean, sure Yuuka was only playable in one game, but she's still there. Mima really isn't the position to return to that status, she'd probably have to return to boss status first.

I think there is a certain love for the character strictly in the wanting, though. When I imagine a world where Mima returns I think about what do we do once we have her back? Personally, I'd just gasp out loud, and eventually wake up one day and think "Mima's back... I want food." It's the way I feel every time a series I love does something I love. The brain can't keep the happy chemicals in there forever, so it has to make you not happy about what you were happy about. How long before we just start putting betting pools on Shinki or Yumemi making an appearance?

We all want to feel that rush, but the apprehension we feel from our wait feels good. Even if you truly believe that Mima will return in the next game, you're still going to look through each stage for her, and inevitably take a liking to one of the new characters. Mima is an expectation, an impossible dream. You want the next Touhou game, but you don't really want anything from it. Mima is something to want. This is the importance that we've put on her. She's the impossible dream that keeps us all playing Touhou games.

Even if Mima never returns, I don't want to stop playing Touhou, so I'm perfectly willing to chase that impossible dream into each new adventure.

Well, the mansion is not Marisa's. We've seen Marisa's house. It's not a mansion.

...Why does Mima own a mansion? I don't think even she remembers.

She bought it of a guy whose poltergeist had just gone walkabout because he was boring. he went to get her back and was never seen again.

What I've always found interesting is how much Mima knows about the yin-yang orb. Considering that her stated goal was revenge on the whole human race, her imprisonment in hell, and her bloody knife, you really start to wonder about what happened to Mima before her untimely death as a mortal. She may have been deeply connected to the Hakurei family line at some point in her life, whether she was their nemesis or even an ally who was betrayed. She was clearly not a Hakurei herself, as she states she needs Reimu alive in order to use the yin-yang orb, as only a Hakurei can utilize its power, so it's odd that she would know so much about how it works.

I am pretty sure that Genji knows how it works (at least, more than Reimu) and he is a turtle.

Anywho, yeah. How does she know that? Who are you Mima?

Genjii's a special turtle. He's probably lived in that pond in the back of the shrine all his years before Reimu caught him.

And it was either become her mentor/steed or become her dinner.

Well we know who she is, what we don't know is who Mima was.

Kinda profound. Maybe wanting is better than having, sometimes.

Then once Mima started hanging out at the Hakurei Shrine, she sold the place to a real estate agent wanting to set up some timeshares in a dream world.

I completely forgot to mention the bloody dagger, yikes.

Know what's weird? There's pretty much nothing out there of Mima and the Hakurei Miko. It's all EX-Rumia or Yukari or Rinnosuke, even though including Mima makes sense and would lead to an interesting narrative.

Given the choice between "ally of the Hakurei line" or "enemy of the Hakurei line," I'm going to go with the former, oddly enough. Mima never taunts Reimu with anything like "your predecessors put up more of a fight," which is something you're contractually obligated to say if you're fighting the latest generation of a heroic tradition. So just from that, my guess is they weren't enemies.

But Mima still wound up in Hell, with a grudge and a bloody knife. Hmm. Maybe she felt slighted by her ally and then did a betrayal of her own in retaliation? Did she fall victim to mankind's prejudices against magic despite her friendship with a miko? Or did an earlier Hakurei fall victim to those prejudices, inspiring Mima to get revenge? Is Mima's roundabout guidance of Reimu a way of making amends? Is that why she disappeared, did she do enough good deeds to be allowed to pass on?

So much untapped narrative potential!

Speaking of Mima narratives, here's some fan works. All links lead to Danbooru, so once you leave the linked pages there will be NSFW ads and stuff.

• Mima-sama Comics - A retelling of Story of Eastern Wonderland
• Mima-sama's Diary - A look at Mima and Marisa's first meeting that frustratingly ends just as it's getting going
• Hey, Mima-sama - A six-page Mima-Marisa thing
• Untitled Mima and Marisa story - A silent comic covering the PC-98 games

That went fast. Anything else you guys want to say here?

....I usually have stuff to say when other folks have stuff to say.

Mima owns a mansion. She has connections to the Hakurei Shrine. She and Marisa have a "master and apprentice" type relationship. She wanted vengeance on humanity for...something. She was first found in Hell for...some reason. She is more than a bit full of herself.

Aside from "full of herself, also, friendly towards Marisa" Mima isn't very consistent in terms of character. Hell, in Mystic Square she grew a lying gimmick out of nowhere.

...Maybe we can take that as something in-universe. Maybe she doesn't remember how she acted before she died and feels that her character is "incomplete", so she reinvents herself along the lines as what personality she still has and tries to find the persona that fits her.

I would've said something last night but hate double-posting. I'm definitely going to do a picdump in the near future, and may even have a writeup at some point, so I'm not quite ready to move on. Not that I'd be rushing in any case after the Rika incident.

I'm also holding out hope for a musicdump. Perhaps one compiled by a troper with a history of finding good tunes? A troper who recently got a new avatar?

Oh, sorry. Stuff has been happening. And I'm not doing it now, it's too late at night.

Maybe tomorrow.

I'll ask for nothing more than what you're willing to give. I know a few choice tunes to fit into a multimediadump, but have no doubt you know more.

Maybe she's remembering it as she goes.

A Link to Her Past

What is a ghost? Nothing but a irritable pile of memories and lingering magical power. But enough talk, let's check the wiki.

Mima's supposedly some sort of vengeful spirit, which come about when a youkai steals a person's corpse before their spirit can catch a lift across the Sanzu. This doesn't explain how she died or why she'd have a grudge against humans, or even how she wound up in Hell. Judging by her initial character design, it may have involved a knife and something reminiscent of a sailor outfit.

Whatever the reason, there she is in Hell, for presumably a long time. Long enough for a lot of her vengefulness to fade. Long enough to forget much of her mortal existence. Just another damned soul who doesn't remember what she did to deserve this fate. And then against all odds a disturbance, an interloper, some brazen shrine maiden willing to storm Hell itself to get revenge on whatever wrecked her shrine. Mima attacks, of course, wielding the magic that is more a part of her than her own memories, along with a bloody knife that may be what damned her to hell one way or another. And as that yin-yang orb impacts with her face, she starts to remember. She knows that ball. She knows how it works. She knows the bloodline that wields it. When the shrine maiden leaves, she follows.

The Hakurei Shrine is her anchor, what drew her out of hell in the first place and one of the few things she remembers. She's still sworn vengeance against all of mankind for some reason she can't quite put her finger on, and though that shrine maiden defeated her last time, Mima has a shot at claiming the power of the Hakurei herself. She's on the surface now, empowered by the moonlight. More than that, she's even found an accomplice, an apprentice, a strange girl with an appreciation for magic who's not picky about who or what she works for. And though Mima may be loath to give away what little she remembers, it's nice to be appreciated.

She fails, of course, and is sealed away in the shrine. This doesn't last long, and Mima's free in no time. Enough to make her wonder whether she's escaped like that before. She settles into a comfortable status quo - she hangs around the shrine and makes fun of its caretaker, urges Marisa to continue her training, but doesn't cause any more major problems. When she crosses figurative blades with Reimu over the right to explore some ruins, they trade insults, but no more than against any other foe. When Reimu and Marisa run off to poke around a dream world, Mima doesn't bother taking over Gensokyo while they're gone.

Mystic Square is a milestone. When a disturbance threatens her home, Mima plays the heroine and sallies forth to put an end to it - if anyone's going to be causing trouble in Gensokyo, it's her. And it turns out she's good at it, blowing her way through Makai's defenders and even cowing its goddess into backing off. Enough to make her wonder if she's got a shot at godhood. Maybe even wonder if she's done something like this before.

So where does she go from there? She knows she has some past with the Hakurei Shrine, that she's better playing the heroine than the bad guy. She's learned all she can from hanging out around Reimu or tussling with other combatants. Reimu's powers keep progressing, while Marisa's outpacing her old mentor and starting to learn magic Mima never mastered. Mima's not willing to develop into a Shinto goddess, but would she be happy forever hanging around the Hakurei Shrine, watching her old foe and former underling grow older and more powerful, occasionally beating down another crop of strange people?

We could ask where Mima went, but the better question is what she would gain by staying. Maybe for Mima it was time to see what else she could remember by going out and experiencing things. Sure, the others might miss her, but they don't really need her. Meanwhile the world's a bunch of potential clues to Mima's earthly identity, should she decide to gather them.

The good news is that no matter where she goes, there will always be a place she can call home.

edited 11th Jun '13 6:28:13 PM by Tacitus

Music dump.

Complete Darkness - It's the final boss! And she's all mean and final bossy too. It has a riff that sounds pretty metally to me, so that's a thing. It has the same feel to it as all of the other PC-98 final boss themes, IMO.

Fat Irish Cat
Of course
Metal will be a recurring thing with this
Not metal
Did not know NJK Record had done Complete Darkness
Here's another thing
Mima is in Guilty Gear. Discuss
Lots of metal with this song, that's all I'm saying
Since Complete Darkness is a final boss theme...

Reincarnation - Mima's best theme, objectively. Also, disregarding Love Coloured Magic and Maiden's Capriccio, probably the most famous PC-98 theme. The intro section of it introduced in Dolls in Pseudo Paradise is one of my favourite things from all of Touhou.

Alright, let's go
Return of the Fat Irish Cat
Pizzicato
The intro of this is the MOST DRAMATIC THING you'll ever hear in your entire life ever
One of the better EWI videos, I think
In which Lily White steals other people's themes
Reincarnation works well with an orchestra
Dippy version
It's from a fangame
O-Life strikes back
It's like if someone held a rave in a cathedral. I'd so go to one of those
Unlucky Morpheus is a good place to finish

How could you miss this one?

...OK, wow, that was a pretty rad write up. I must say, I am impressed.

I admit, I do like the idea that the reason she left was because she had no reason to stay. Instead of sticking around and hoping that her past comes to her, she left to discover herself on her own terms. So much to do, and sometimes it's better to be proactive than reactive, you know?

Mmmmm, musicdump. Leave it to asterism to find remixes that make me appreciate songs I previously disliked - especially impressed how NJK kept the tempo through "Complete Darkness." Which isn't to say that I didn't appreciate the hell out of Rei's "Reincarnation" arrange.

Sure, she could've stuck around Reimu and Marisa, but after all that time in Hell I'd bet Mima doesn't like staying put for too long.

Now, I think Shinki has recently eclipsed her, but it ought to go without saying that Mima gets tons of fanart for a PC-98 character. Which means that my computer gets to suffer from all the tabs that get opened at the same time.

• Profile pic source
• Alphes style of original costume
• The sort of shady character you might bump into at a midnight crossroads
• Quasi-realistic
• Looking kinda down
• Somber
• Red splatters
• One of the few pics to do hair over the eyes right
• An apparition stalks the night
• Time to get serious
• This looked better in the music dump
• From Touhou Pocket Wars, I think
• During her absence she came down with a case of Aya Ears
• Unusually colorful
• Watercolors!
• Another watercolor!
• Proving that color doesn't matter
• She must be sad that the moon's exploding
• More rare art of her HRtP outfit
• Almost looks like Marisa cosplaying as her to me
• Dark wings unfurled
• Speaking of Guilty Gear...
• Immodest cosplaying
• Contemporary
• Lose the chains unless you want more oni speculation
• What, does she have them on her canon costume and I just haven't noticed yet?
• A multitude of Mimas
• More Mimas
• Wish the artist had done her other costume, but still pretty good
• Cosmic
• Think I've seen this on YouTube recently
• This one's pretty famous around the YouTubes as well
• The ol' imaginary Final Spark
• Charge!
• Circles in circles
• One of the oldest Mima pics, and still one of the best
• How many EXs should we slap on this one?
• A missed opportunity to include Kikuri as the moon
• Walking the Earth, in a loose sense
• But why does she look so - oh
• Persona!
• Love this one. Look how much character the artist is able to convey
• Hell? Makai? A desolate stretch of Gensokyo?
• Crazy backdrop
• That's her boomstick
• Upgraded to Hot Wings
• Sinister sketch
• Is day of judgment
• Guess her butt is a composite of evil souls
• Wow, she really did Kill All Humans
• Or maybe she didn't escape Hell on her own, but got summoned up in a complete coincidence
• Digging that deranged art style
• Someone's late for their magic lesson
• An odd composition, but I like it for some reason
• Not the best role model
• The "speech" bubble is unnecessary, but I'll let it slide
• Might be part of a comic or something
• Not by the same artist behind the "Mima-sama Diary" comic, despite the similarity in style
• A favorite of mine
• A future Magic Team, ZUN willing
• Not sure what the shades are for
• Cute lil' evil apprentice
• Dangerous duo
• Looks like a part of her will always be with Marisa
• Hopefully this isn't the next time they meet
• To make up for the last one, a warm and fuzzy
• In her defense, she can't use spurs. Yuuka has no excuse, though.
• "What'cha doin'?!"
• Kind of like an evil, unenthusiastic, resentful Mary Poppins
• Maybe they knew each other
• The real reason Suika moved out
• The strongest apprentice
• Something unspeakable is about to happen to that poor amphibian
• It's an unliving
• Mystic Square ending spoilers
• Of course the shoes don't match.
• Itty bitty evil spirit
• Sad
• Sadder
• Of all the things she taught Marisa, this may be the most important

Well, that was another big-ass post.