Game of Thrones [Potential Book Spoilers]

He's kind of already there in the show. He was already given an upgrade by manipulating Loras, Lancel, Sansa, Roose Bolton, Olenna, Cersei and the HS all at once.

I don't think he manipulated any of those-bar Sansa, Loras & Cersei, of course. The High Septon and his ilk ransacked his brothel and straight-up intimidate him. The rest are more or less his equal partners.

Hell, Olenna a leverage over him right now.

edited 2nd Jun '15 9:45:17 AM by LogoP

Which is exactly why I wanted him to be arrested the second he entered King's Landing. Sure, its off book, but it would make up for how much of a Sue he's been for awhile now.

I'm also kind of pissed we haven't heard about Varys since, what? Episode 2? Tyrion Lannister just goes off to piss, gets kidnapped, and Varys just sits there? I want some funny comic showing Varys still just sitting in that brothel surrounded by naked men and women waiting for Tyion to come back. Better yet, I want that to be some Stinger at the end of the season.

Well, Varys was absent for quite a while in the books as well. A whole book, and most of another. But it made his murder of Kevan and Pycelle all the more a Wham Episode. I think it's probably going to happen in the show as well. Why else bring back Kevan after a two-season absence?

Lol, Varys probably arranged for Tyrion to be kidnapped by Jorah so he could get him to Dany without having to hear his whining.

edited 27th May '15 2:45:47 PM by LogoP

Roose got played by LF as he's getting ready to betray him hard.

Olenna doesn't really hold anymore leverage over him as he does her.

Also he said he was gifting Lancel to Olenna. I assumed he influenced him somehow into confessing.

It doesn't make much of a gift if Lancel was going to do all of that anyways.

Well, it's safe to say Varys had pretty much the same thing in mind than Jorah when he decided to go to Dany with Tyrion: bring her a gift to avoid being roasted alive on the spot. He was one of the most powerful men in Westeros, Jorah's employer when he was spying on Dany, and vouched for at least one assassination attempt on her: she may not be that happy to see him if he had nothing to offer.

So, disappearance until better plan comes along. Unlike LF or the Boltons, he does not have luck on his side, so he can't keep puling one Batman Gambit after another without needing to be careful.

I get the impression that Lancel confessed to what Cersei did AGES ago back when he first met the High Sparrow and he's just been playing her the fool the entire time.

I believe, whatever LF has in mind for Olenna, has yet to be revealed and will probably be more to free Marg and Loras.

So do I. Cersei's a dumbass for not seeing her arrest coming from the next planet over THE MOMENT she saw LANCEL among the Sparrows. I wouldn't be surprised if Lancel joining the Sparrows was the reason the Sparrows made base in King's Landing.

I find it bizarre that Littlefinger isn't immediately arrested by the Sparrows when he enters King's Landing. He's possibly the most prolific flesh merchant in Westeros—are they going soft?

Part of what makes him untouchable in the books is his sedentary existence in a castle that literally cannot be conquered by land. Here, he's flitting from the Boltons, Cersei, the Faith, and Olenna, holding nothing over any of them, and for some reason ends up unscathed. It's infuriating—he was never this ridiculous in the text.

edited 27th May '15 8:24:04 PM by CrimsonZephyr

He did mention he had business with the Queen Mother. Perhaps her being the financial backbone of the newly armed Faith Militant gave her (and through her, him) a bit of political sway...

If they're making Bran see a flashback of Starks sparring not having Lyanna get some action would be a mistake.

They would have to then cast her. And she would then have to at least resemble that statue of her in the basement. Pirates of the Caribbean really dropped the ball there with the Turners.

x7 Killing Kevan and Pycelle before they pull Westeros back together would be a much better gift for Dany, now that he doesn't have Tyrion any longer. I'm not sure it even qualifies as a Batman Gambit — it's murdering someone so he can't do stuff you don't want him to. Pretty simple. No reason to assume Show!Varys would need luck to accomplish this, not if he still has his "little birds" and access to the secret tunnels. Honestly, no schemer should ever have to seem dependent on luck.

And really, I think Show!Varys needs this scene to remind us that he's still competent and dangerous. The removal of the Aegon/Illyrio subplot, and the fact that he clearly didn't expect Tyrion to kill Tywin here, has made him come off as kind of toothless compared to the show's other schemers.

They've been trying to make him LF's good counterpart/rival instead of more like the books.

edited 28th May '15 4:31:14 AM by LordofLore

Which misses the point. Neither is better than the other. Varys just peddles better bullshit.

Ugh, sometimes, I feel like D&D were just two guys who were like "The Red Wedding was so goddamn edgy, let's make a televised adaptation, brah!" but understood nothing else about the series.

edited 28th May '15 4:30:07 AM by CrimsonZephyr

True enough, but after Tywin died, Varys saw an opportunity in helping Tyrion escape. That was a gambit, he lost when Jorah abducted Tyrion. Also, he left KL just when Tywin died, he could not possibly predict that Cersei would reinstate the Faith out of spite, which would lead to her own downfall and Kevan coming back. Even LF did not foresee that one, he merely understood how unhinged Cersei was and played it to his advantage.

So, after losing this option, Varys may come back to ensuring chaos in Westeros if he wants Daenerys to win. However, I like to think that, unlike LF, Varys does think he is acting for the greater good, not for his own selfish interests. He may very well stay in Westeros and help Dany's return without looking for a reward. He could even conclude that going to Dany with Tyrion was a prideful plot, and that a guy like him is destined to work from the shadows, no in plain sight.

Pretty sure that's how it went down with D&D.

Lol.

Well GRRM apparently asked them who they thought Jon's mom was and they answered to their satisfaction so

Or at least make the modesty bedsheets more... believable.

Or clever camera angles. That works too.

That seems like a very low standard to set.

My girlfriend figured it out by herself by ACOK.

Sure, but I'd wager the majority of fans didn't figure it out on their own before they looked it up on asoiaf

At the very least they have a good understanding of the setting. The History and Lore is very engrossing, and the character narrations often have clever spins on the material. The shorts also name drop House Manderly and House Hightower so I'm betting they might put in an appearance at some point

Well my girlfriend is very smart so I suppose

True although they should put more of that into the actual show than cast it off into some side-material.

It's the characters and themes that I don't think they have a good grasp of.

Then again these are the guy that said and I quote:

edited 30th May '15 1:33:46 AM by MadSkillz

I'm guessing that they didn't do well on their eight-grade book reports. Lord Of The Flies and To Kill A Mockingbird are incredibly hard reads after all. Losing your humanity and social prejudice? Snore.

Objectively speaking their handling of characters and themes is mixed. A great number of characters are portrayed just fine. It's just that any mistakes, real or not, stick out a lot more.

And they are hardly the only storytellers who don't necessarily write with themes constantly in mind. More than a few authors would say they write stories and themes are up to the audience

edited 30th May '15 2:32:41 AM by Mr.Didact