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MorningStar1337 Like reflections in the glass! from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
Like reflections in the glass!
#6601: Dec 22nd 2017 at 8:07:40 AM

I have a few questions.

  • Is this a raid, not a nuclear strike, right?
  • if so, what are the odds that the military will not go through with this?

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#6602: Dec 22nd 2017 at 8:55:34 AM

[up]

Seems to imply that it would be something like we saw in Syria, Tomahawk missiles and other long range strikes to hit missile sites and so on. Not that Donald would realise most of them are on mobile launch pads...

I don't think there's anything illegal about a strike order on NK. It's only an armistice, which has been broken quite a few times.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#6603: Dec 22nd 2017 at 9:02:43 AM

Technically there is still a war on, the armistice is only really ever a temporary thing. And the number of times that south and north have broke it numbers in the hundreds.

Shoot there was a major sea battle in 02 and both sides were shelling each other in 10.

edited 22nd Dec '17 9:06:43 AM by Memers

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#6604: Dec 22nd 2017 at 9:27:10 AM

Granted, but the international portion was a "Police Action", so only South Korea is officially at war with the North.

Moot point, given how loose US authorization of force laws are post 9/11...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#6605: Dec 22nd 2017 at 10:53:35 AM

Security Council tightens economic vice on North Korean, blocking fuel ships and workers

Full article text in note below:

note 

UNITED NATIONS — The United Nations Security Council imposed new sanctions on North Korea on Friday that significantly choke off new fuel supplies and order North Koreans working overseas to return home within two years, in what may prove the last test of whether any amount of economic pressure can force it to reverse course on its nuclear program.

The sanctions, adopted by a vote of 15 to 0, were the third imposed this year in an escalating effort to force the North into negotiations. China and Russia joined in the resolution, though American officials have charged that in recent months the Russians have secretly been opening new links to the North, including new internet connections that give the country an alternative to communicating primarily through China.

Under the new sanctions, oil exports will be limited to their current level, which has already begun to result in shortages around the country. Countries around the world will be ordered to expel North Korean workers, a key source of hard currency. Nations would also be urged to inspect all North Korean shipping and halt ship-to-ship transfers of fuel, which the North has used to evade sanctions.

But the resolution does not permit countries to hail and board North Korean ships in international waters, which the Trump administration proposed earlier this year. That would be the most draconian measure, because it would enable the United States Navy and its Pacific allies to create a cordon around the country, though Pentagon officials say it would also carry a high risk of triggering a firefight between North Korea and foreign navies.

The vote came just four days after the United States charged that the North was responsible for the “Wannacry’’ cyber attack that crippled computers around the world in May, and weeks after the country launched a new intercontinental missile that appears capable of reaching any city in the United States. But the White House homeland security adviser, Thomas P. Bossert, acknowledged on Tuesday that the United States was running out of sanctions options.

“President Trump has used just about every lever you can use, short of starving the people of North Korea to death, to change their behavior,” Mr. Bossert said. “And so we don’t have a lot of room left here to apply pressure to change their behavior.”

In fact, the public C.I.A. assessment is that no amount of economic sanctions will force the North to give up its nuclear program.

The United States, which has led the sanctions effort at the Security Council, drafted the latest round of sanctions in consultation with other members, most notably China, which historically has been reticent to impose them. The deadline for the return of North Korean workers was changed to 24 months from 12 months, partly in response to Chinese and Russian concerns.

It was a striking display of unity, only a day after most members of the United Nations General Assembly condemned the new United States stance on Jerusalem.

Nikki R. Haley, the American ambasssador, thanked the other council members — especially China — for coming together on the resolution and said further North Korean defiance would “invite further punishment and isolation.”

Ms. Haley called North Korea’s intercontinental ballistic missile test last month “another attempt by the Kim regime to masquerade as a great power while their people starve and their soldiers defect.”

Speaking to reporters before the meeting, Matthew Rycroft, the British ambassador, said the ability of all council members to come together on the North Korea issue showed they are “seeing the bigger interests we all have.”

Mr. Rycroft said the new measures “tighten the grip and make it even harder for the regime to fund the illegal programs, and at the same time insure we don’t make life harder for the poor people of North Korea.”

The assent of China and Russia to the tightened measures appeared to reflect the growing impatience with North Korea by the world’s most powerful nations, regardless of their politics.

Experts on North Korea said the new measures had the potential to dissuade Mr. Kim from further escalating the tensions with more tests, but were cautious about predicting his behavior.

“If the international community, including countries like China and Russia, implements these measures fully, faithfully and quickly, it will apply an unprecedented and irresistible level of pressure on the North Korean regime,” said Evans J.R. Revere, a former senior State Department diplomat for East Asia.

If that happens, he said, it would force North Korea “to make a choice between continued defiance of the international community on the one hand and a return to the negotiating table on the other.”

Under North Korea’s young leader, Kim Jong-un, grandson of its founding father Kim Il-sung, the impoverished country of 25 million has exalted nuclear weapons and threatened to use them against the United States, its No. 1 perceived enemy since the armistice that halted the Korean War more than six decades ago.

President Trump has responded to these threats by vowing to “totally destroy” North Korea if attacked and pressing China, North Korea’s most important trading partner, to cut off oil exports to the country.

There have been mixed signs, at best, that diplomatic efforts to avert a military confrontation are working.

Last week Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson told the Security Council that “a sustained cessation of North Korea’s threatening behavior must occur before talks can begin,” a sharp contrast from conciliatory comments he had made just a few days earlier.

The North Koreans have conducted six nuclear tests and have demonstrated major progress with their missiles even though the United Nations has prohibited them.

The tightened measures approved on Friday included a restriction that would cut the supply of North Korea’s imports of refined petroleum by roughly 90 percent. The would also place limits on crude oil deliveries and give other countries enhanced powers to stop North Korea-bound ships suspected of carrying contraband.

A further punitive action requires North Korea to recall thousands of North Korean laborers, many of them working in Russia and China, who send remittances home, an important source of government income. That action tightens an earlier sanction that banned North Korea from sending more workers abroad.

edited 22nd Dec '17 12:44:11 PM by TheWildWestPyro

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#6606: Dec 23rd 2017 at 2:23:47 AM

Almost certainly not a nuclear strike. Trump doesn't have the stones to launch one of those, and it's really not in his own interests to do so, even if he wants a full on war with North Korea, which he may or may not (Trump strikes me as an Internet Tough Guy). Best way to go to war with North Korea is to get really under their skin and provoke a disproportionate response from Kim.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#6607: Dec 23rd 2017 at 3:32:33 AM

US military issues alert after North Korean propaganda found on multiple bases

U.S. Forces Korea is warning service members on the peninsula to stay alert to potential insider threats after North Korean propaganda appeared on American bases.

The 8th Army reported that propaganda leaflets were discovered at Seoul’s Yongsan Garrison Thursday, shortly after a North Korean soldier defected across the heavily fortified border just north of the South Korean capital.

In an alert posted later that day on USFK’s Facebook page, officials said a significant number of North Korean propaganda leaflets and C Ds had been placed at strategic locations on multiple U.S. military installations in South Korea.

“Given the number of foreign nationals with access to our military installations via employment, sponsorship and partnership programs, the potential for insider threats is always a reality,” the alert said. “It is essential for our personnel to report all [propaganda] and suspicious individuals to the appropriate authorities to help mitigate potential threats.”

Propaganda is used to persuade or influence people’s attitude, beliefs and behaviors and those distributing it seek to disrupt operations and degrade readiness, the alert added.

It also warned personnel not to post propaganda on social media and beware of unfamiliar C Ds that may contain malware or viruses.

USFK advised personnel to report propaganda, people distributing it or suspicious individuals to security forces.

Probably the janitor.

edited 23rd Dec '17 3:33:04 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Ominae (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6608: Dec 23rd 2017 at 4:08:29 AM

UNSC has enacted new sanctions to hinder its ICBM production capabilties today. 15-0

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#6609: Dec 27th 2017 at 4:43:11 AM

Report: North Korea soldier found to have anthrax antibodies

Dec. 26 (UPI) — One of the North Korean soldiers who defected to the South in 2017 was found to have antibodies in his bloodstream, a sign Pyongyang possesses anthrax, the acute disease caused by bacteria.

South Korean authorities did not identify the soldier, who was either exposed to or vaccinated for anthrax, but did confirm he had developed immunity to the deadly disease before he defected, local news network Channel A reported Tuesday.

"Anthrax antibodies have been found in the North Korean soldier who defected this year," a South Korean intelligence official told the network on the condition of anonymity.

The discovery of the antibodies is causing concern in Seoul.

The disease can kill at least 80 percent of those who are exposed to the bacterium in 24 hours, unless antibiotics are taken or vaccination is available.

But South Korea's military has yet to secure an anthrax vaccine.

Defense Ministry spokeswoman Choi Hyun-soo has said an anthrax "vaccine is expected to be developed by the end of 2019," but not sooner, for the South Korean military.

North Korea has been suspected of developing biological weapons after the regime publicized the works of the Pyongyang Biological Technology Research Institute in 2015, run by the Korean People's Army Unit 810.

Pyongyang claimed the facility specializes in pesticide research but analysts have said dual-use equipment on the site suggests biological weapons are being manufactured in North Korea.

The news of possible North Korea anthrax development comes at a time when South Korean newsmagazine Sisa Journal is reporting the U.S. military in the South has continued to test live bacteria at local bases.

The Joint United States Forces Korea Portal and Integrated Threat Recognition, or JUPITR, is budgeted to receive about $9 million, according to the report.

The program, aimed to shape biological detection capabilities, is ongoing, according to Sisa.

Concerns spiked in South Korea after Seoul's defense ministry confirmed the U.S. military in South Korea imported samples of anthrax 15 times since 2009, and a shipment in 2015 exposed as many as 22 people.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#6610: Dec 31st 2017 at 5:50:43 PM

Kim Jong Un said in a New Years Address the world needs to face the reality North Korea is a nuclear threat and he now has a nuclear button on his desk, but seems to want to strike up deals in the New Year.

TL;DR: He's got his nukes and feels more secure thanks to them.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
kkhohoho Since: May, 2011
#6611: Dec 31st 2017 at 7:03:59 PM

[up]According to all reports concerning the most recent tests, he doesn't have nukes and missiles yet, or at least ones that can reach the US Mainland without blowing up in reentry. So more sabre rattling.

Ominae (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#6612: Jan 1st 2018 at 4:22:15 AM

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-42368978/north-korea-fan-club-we-had-lots-of-hate-messages

The Moranbong fan club in Japan. The members don't support Pyongyang, but enjoy listening to the music...

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#6613: Jan 4th 2018 at 2:11:11 PM

Despite all the bluster and sabre-rattling that occurred this past year, North Korea has reestablished a major communication channel with South Korea and is looking to send a delegation to the Olympic Games. Unexpected for sure.

Though a part of me is entertaining the thought that it's all a ploy to send over some spies.

Life is unfair...
kkhohoho Since: May, 2011
#6614: Jan 4th 2018 at 4:22:06 PM

[up]I've been thinking of bringing that up myself. With all the sabre-rattling going on, it's a hell of a breakthrough. Might even give us a light at the end of a tunnel, God-willing.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#6615: Jan 4th 2018 at 5:58:38 PM

I doubt very much this is in good faith. We gotta remember that the people running North Korea are not good people. You don't get to a position of power and influence in North Korea if you have anything resembling a functional moral compass.

We just have to hope North Korea's pragmatism and cowardice win out over their malice.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#6616: Jan 4th 2018 at 6:20:42 PM

Reestablishing a communications channel would be only restoring what North and South were supposed to have to begin with; the real test is what North demonstrates through actions.

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#6617: Jan 5th 2018 at 11:09:16 AM

I think he might be sincere with SK. Not because he is a good person, but because its a good way to undermine the US, since the administration in Seoul isn't exactly lockstep with Trump ideologically just now...

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#6618: Jan 5th 2018 at 11:47:27 AM

[up] This is very good news for both Moon, who made it one of his campaign promises to have better diplomacy with the northern neighbor and for Kim Jong-Un, who will be seen by the population as a master strategist, having managed to get the national team on the Olympics despite opposition by the United States.

Life is unfair...
betaalpha betaalpha from England Since: Jan, 2001
betaalpha
#6619: Jan 5th 2018 at 12:29:28 PM

Trump (and his fans) will state that his 'playing hardball' with Kim Jong Un is what created a diplomatic breakthrough, and claim the unearned glory. I don't know if that means everyone wins, or it just unravels whatever progress is made.

Though I'm also in agreement with the Japanese Defense Minister on this, and believe it's most likely North Korea's just gone into a 'dialogue phase' so they can build up goodwill to take away later.

Trivialis Since: Oct, 2011
#6620: Jan 5th 2018 at 1:01:33 PM

I don't think it's really convincing to call this a breakthrough of any kind. Kim Jong-un is approaching the move from a point of confidence - in the recent nuclear weapon successes - rather than desperation or capitulation.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#6621: Jan 5th 2018 at 7:01:27 PM

Or simply, the fact Kim now has enough nukes has made him feel secure enough to start improving relations again without having to go saber-rattling.

Plus, the nuclear testing seems to have badly bankrupted much of North Korea. It's pretty much certain they'll start asking for aid again, but peacefully. Again, not because of the goodness of their heart, but because they've got enough nukes to feel safe.

kkhohoho Since: May, 2011
#6622: Jan 5th 2018 at 7:05:56 PM

[up]Even if they can't actually reach the US yet with any of them without their missiles blowing up in reentry?

TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#6623: Jan 5th 2018 at 7:13:29 PM

[up] Jong-Un probably doesn't realise that.

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#6624: Jan 5th 2018 at 7:14:36 PM

[up][up]

I'm pretty sure they've convinced themselves that the missiles can, and any failures are due to evil capitalist sabotage, proletariat not working hard enough or whatever.

edited 5th Jan '18 7:14:52 PM by TheWildWestPyro

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#6625: Jan 5th 2018 at 8:06:47 PM

The missiles are a credible threat in the region, which seems like enough for them to feel secure. Even if they're not able to reliably hit the mainland US they probably feel comfortable being able to threaten our allies and a couple of our military bases.

Not to say that it's a devastating threat or anything, just that they know the chance of us making a move with SK/Japan/Guam/Taiwan and our bases in the area in their sights is low.

They should have sent a poet.

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