Code Geass

It's a translation or localization choice, but I'd point out that telling someone to lay down their arms does not require them to literally do so. It's a perfectly valid figure of speech.

Then again, I'm not the sort of person who laughs at puns and such, so I'll just shrug.

edited 8th May '14 2:51:07 PM by Souther

Somehow, I can see Suzaku of Code MENT saying that and meaning it literally.

Given her title, which is just her name with "The Flash" attached to it, how long would Marianne against either Suzaku or Kallen?

We already saw that a couple of times when Anya took Kallen on.

Not really an accurate examination I'd argue; she only interfered once or twice in Anya's battles after all.

That said, I'd argue that on an even technological playing field (IE everyone in the same mech, for instance), Marianne would beat Suzaku but Kallen would still beat Marianne.

Suzaku is a good pilot, yes, but arguably not the best given how he tends to have the technological and later supernatural thanks to Geass edge in any given fight he's in. Once that's gone I'd say that Kallen is easily the better pilot.

For Marianne though we can only speculate about based on offhand knowledge. Knowing that she easily outclasses Bismark, someone who can hold his own against Suzaku in a massively inferior mech, we can probably assume that she's the best pilot of the three of them. That just leaves Marianne vs Kallen to consider, where I'm fairly confident Kallen could take the win; but admittedly that final conclusion is highly speculative.

Glad to see you again. How's you university work going?

I dunno; it's flat out stated in the final battle that with Kallen in a better knightmare and Suzaku with the Geass curse, neither can manage an outright victory. It's basically a draw - Kallen destroys the Lancelot, but Suzaku achieves his objective in preventing her getting to Lelouch.

Plus something people tend to forget in this series is the issue of motivation. Suzaku's skills in particular tend to vary hugely depending on how much he actually wants to fight at that moment. They both tend to be better when they are angry.

You're not wrong that Suzaku did achieve his goal, but he also concedes defeat (at least in the version I watched two weeks ago) at the end of the battle; that and his mech was totally destroyed, unlike the Gurren, so I'd give it to Kallen here personally.

Also worth noting is that the Gurren SEITEN was said to be unpilotable by Suzaku, or anyone for that matter.

edited 26th May '14 1:49:56 PM by moberemk

I know it's kind of a dead horse to beat on R2's plotting, or Geass's plotting in general; but why were the Black Knights so dedicated to Schniezel's cause and being willing pawns? Like I get being butthurt over how Lulu played the Post-Second Battle of Tokyo thing, but they are defending a man who is threatening nuclear annihilation of any nation that opposes him, and has just launched an unprovoked nuclear strike on a civilian center killing upwards of 20 million people. I'm not saying they should've stuck with Lulu, but why not just bow out and let Schniezel and Lelouch's factions slug it out and then take on whoever's left?

edited 26th May '14 2:08:07 PM by Scherzo09

I want to note this is a separate issue from them betraying Lulu, I want to know why they'd trust Shniezel when he's been shown to be just as bad.

Better the devil you know can't mind control you than the devil you know can?

So trust the devil that's threatening the world with nuclear Armageddon?

The thing is...they really didn't know anything about his true plans. Schneizel only told Cornelia (and maybe Diethard off-screen?) the gruesome details of his whole peace through genocide concept. No threats of worldwide annihilation were ever publicly made by Schneizel. It would have been a nasty wake-up call for them after Emperor Lelouch was finally defeated, to be sure, but they didn't have any reason to know he was planning such a thing.

What they actually knew (or merely thought they did):

a) Suzaku used a nuke during the Tokyo battle, after Lelouch dismissed his prior threats to do so. b) Schneizel used a nuke on an enemy capital, but only after Lelouch and Suzaku had captured all the UFN reps to force them into letting Britannia take over their alliance.

Since Lelouch was confirmed to be their common enemy now, they probably just figured that having the guy with all these nukes formally on their side would be safer than being on the receiving end of one of those massive explosions. Moreover, I guess they also feared whatever else Lelouch would do against them, so having a bigger gun wouldn't hurt to even the score. That said, I don't think they were shown to be particularly happy about being with Schneizel either. Having them just bow out has its own risks and I think they were too desperate to consider it a viable option, given that their paranoia had already been seemingly justified at the conference. In other words, it's not a very smart move, but it has a certain amount of sense.

edited 26th May '14 10:38:14 PM by Souther

I dunno, I always felt the Black Knights lost what little sense of agency they had after they betray Lulu.

Anyways they shoulda known it was an attack of sheer terror, because Lelouch was still transiting the Pacific when the attack was carried out.

edited 27th May '14 7:49:29 AM by Scherzo09

I'm still shocked Xingke and Kaguya didn't have a word with them regarding that deal with Japan.

Xingke isn't a Japanese national, and all the members of the Kyoto Consortium were executed and I'd assume their assets nationalized, so I doubt Kaguya actually has much in the way of leverage.

I'm talking about the UFN side. That deal by all rights would have meant a cease fire against Britannia in exchange for just one country when the prime example was the world, which included the other represented countries. It was mainly Ohgi and the other Knights acting in their own interest.

Well Schneizel would have probably respected the UFN concept, about as well as Lelouch did at least.

I can't believe that guy's Troy Baker btw, seeing as how that was essentially a bit part compared to how huge he's become.

edited 30th May '14 6:44:22 PM by Scherzo09

The problem was that the Black Knights were the military front for the UFN, and had practically usurped initiative in that decision, ousting that leader in what could have undermined the UFN's overall aim. The B Ks were seemingly only interested in Japan. Had that deal come through, that would have been it, and the UFN would have been left out to dry. No remaining leverage, nothing.

Here's the problem, the relationship between the Black Knights and the UFN was always fuzzy. The Black Knights were and for the most part remained Zero's private Insurgent/Terrorist Army which he pledged on his behalf to replace the national militaries of UFN states. Putting aside the fact that such a force would be ill-equipped to be a conventional, standing army for the entire world (which, ironically, would make their primary combat role counter-insurgency), there's the issue of the fact that again, all of them pledged allegiance to Zero, not the UFN. Zero could've potentially lorded over the UFN as a global Military Junta.

Therein lies the very issue. The B Ks turned on the person who the UFN, who were intended as a more international, diplomatic front, felt more loyalty towards. The UFN relied on the B Ks not because they were buddy-buddy, but because they had no choice. With the B Ks acting against the interests of the UFN by turning on Zero, a falling out could have happened if not for Rolo saving Lelouch from execution.

edited 30th May '14 7:15:44 PM by azul120

And the underlying point of that is the UFN is kinda of a sham that'd work just as well as the IRL UN. It's something to stroke Lelouch's ego.

Except it was a case of one group causing the schism, not several.

Ego stroke or not, the UFN represented a legitimate worldwide movement against the Britannian empire.

It was a group of wide-eyed idealists thinking they could somehow solve the world's problems through an international body. In the end it was nothing more than a proxy and probably would've fell to pieces the moment Britannia was contained.

Which wouldn't bode well for the ending either.