Girl Genius

Eric, that didn't bother me as much as the rest of it, like the fact that her foreshadowing primarily consisted of Tarvek saying she was really dangerous, whereas our erstwhile storytellers are usually quite good about quietly planting chekovs arsenal here and there in the background, and much of her comes across as (Informed Ability) or at least somewhat contrived.

Merciless, sure, crazy, oh heck yes, but that competent - especially when she could have pulled that out at several FAR more opportune moments ?

And yes, Zeetha looking away like that makes about as much sense as an Amnesiac forgetting how to ride a bicycle - muscle memory alone makes it unlikely, which combat training is primarily based on, so that one was especially hard to swallow - honestly, at this point I'm half expecting a (Lampshade Hanging) in the form of Agatha leaping a pit of shark clanks...

Oh, and something else from another series came to mind while pondering the being tossed from airships thing, at least twice in Othars case, and the apparently high chance of survival of such in the GG, and other universes - theres a scene in Gundam Wing where Lady Une dumps someone out of an aircraft in similar fashion, than casually leans out, and shoots him through the head on the way down, just to make SURE, and re-watching it seriously reminded me of Bang, who would without a doubt do something similar, laughing all the while.

Othar better hope SHE never chucks him out of an airship, not that this is an more likely to finish him off (I mean, this is Othar we're talkin about here..) but the ensuing headache would kind of suck.

(and why is it sticking this huge space at the end of my post?)

edited 17th Oct '10 10:17:53 AM by Revestra

^^ You mean you would get within arms reach of her???

edited 17th Oct '10 10:17:46 AM by Michael

After shooting her. It's better than letting her out of my sight, and much better than turning my back on her.

Oh, one change. First shoot her. Then jam a bucket on her head. Then hogtie her.

Later, when you've got the time, you can start the exorcism.

I would be inclined to shoot her repeatedly while retreating beyond the blast radius of the largest launchable bomb in my collection.

Ah, also, Eric, regarding the death ray - yes, she's been a busy little bee, but remember, she built a dingbot under similar conditions (and I am soooo resisting that horrible iron man meme here), so it's an entirely reasonable expectation, especially given the circumstances.

On that unmentioned note however, it does give rise to an interesting question which'd explain a whole lot... you think ole Tony's a Spark ? I most certainly do.

Michael, if you have the tools at hand, the best thing (short of a nuke) would probably be shots to the head, central chest, upper spine, and shoulder and hip joints, followed by the prolonged application of a flamethrower. Of course, if she survives the shots, you get the flaming monster advances scenario. But nothing's perfect.

Say, might Othar's alternate-future nuclear disaster have been the result of trying to destroy Zola?

edited 17th Oct '10 11:47:21 AM by GreybeardFan

Zola's foreshadowing was of such long standing that it was the subject of ongoing debate about her dual nature and its causes...causes that were pretty well sorted from the time of her escape. The obvious conclusion once confirmation occurred was that if she was indeed gaming the world she was damned good at what she did. Her very competence is what fooled us early on, and she kept on showing competence to a degree that fans were whining about her win rate. Tarvek's warnings only came AFTER the character had been established as dangerous and skilled. The Chekov's gun was planted the moment Miss Pinky Pants used her mooks as Castle Fodder, and kept mounting.

The Foglios provided the evidence and the reason she'd be faking her pretty pink status long ago, and the cues to her ability. If you decided to underplay or low-ball that, well, your choice. But do not go accusing the Foglios of failing to provide the cues when they were matters of major public argument, and do not go indicating that the chain of reasoning wasn't there. It was. You chose not to believe it or take it seriously. You got a shock as a result.

(Stomps off before she continues on to a really thorough lecture on sloppy use of TV Tropes terms to try to cover your own mistakes in evaluation... Jeez, you'd think that heavy-handed telegraphing of a plot point rather than merely making it reasonable in-fiction was suddenly a virtue, or even a moral obligation, not a vice.)

Greybeard, the trope you are looking for is Infernal Retaliation.

Hippogrif, I wonder if we are not deceiving ourselves by treating the story as "a comic book" rather than as a very well-constructed, through-plotted story?

Oh, and the day you get time to write that lecture, I'm game. Even if I have to take part of the blast. The only thing worse than overpaying for education by experience is overpaying and not taking the lesson.

No, Greybeard, I finally figured out I have to treat all this bellowing and chest beating and rationalization as "stages of grief" stuff. Folks are acting out denial, anger and bargaining.

Later is probably a better time for doing the step by step canonical analysis of why this made perfect canonical sense. Right now people want to believe it didn't make sense, because if it didn't make sense they don't have to take it as a justifiable part of the story.

And the degree of irk I feel right now would only add a lot more emotional tumult to the forum, with lecturing probably being the worst response possible. Folks are logically and canonically wrong, on far too many counts, but they're emotionally normal, and I think I had best leave it at that. Zeetha is hurt. We love Zeetha. What is said in reaction is just...reaction. And reaction before the resolution, which is even less stable or reliable.

Let it go...

No Hippogrif, I meant no insult, but if I missed stuff, please enlighten me - seriously, there's a LOT of backgrounding and some of it is, as you say, on the subtle side, so if I missed some important cues on Pinky I really do wanna know what they were, ok ?

This isn't emotional investment so much as an "out of left field" reaction, given that our storytellers usually lay the groundwork pretty well, you know ? - although I do wonder why she didn't take a couple much more advantageous opportunities.

Also, something I wanted to ask you specifically, since you've done such a wonderful job of analysing Tarveks character, which makes him a lot more understandable - as opposed to say, Gil, Agatha or Zeetha, why isn't Tarvek armed ?

Is it that he doesn't see that as properly his role, or that he feels he would be less trusted, or just a personal distaste for stooping to such ?

But mostly I'd like to know if there were some warning signs about the pink menace that I missed.

edited 17th Oct '10 1:53:49 PM by Revestra

I see two reasons why the potentially mortal injury to Zeetha is "logical" in the story line. First, we have gotten a subtle but real build-up on Zeetha. I can't trace a thread, but between her interactions with Gil, her new relationship with Higgs, and the release of the Chump "files", things are moving around her. Even I picked it up, and I'm not especially sensitive. It's logical then that she become the center of things. Since Agatha will remain the center of responsibility (no LOTR three-way split seems likely) the most likely thing for Zeetha is jeopardy. Second, we've been promised a reveal on Higgs. That probably means forcing him to reveal something, and an excellent way to do that is by creating jeopardy that only he can resolve or, better yet, that he especially wants to resolve. If in the circumstances at hand it's both, so much the better.

The Hippogrif/Greybeard axis may be getting out of hand here, but I'll second what Hippogrif said: our first big clue was when Zola showed no regret for the death of one of her mooks in the Castle. It's not "no remorse", it's "no regret." And there's no good cause being advanced, only her own ambition. Likewise her truly cold-blooded treatment of the veiled prisoner, la cucaracha, and her particularly fast freedom and gold for whoever kills [Agatha]. It's not just that she's done those things, nor that she's slid back and forth between doing them and her pink-and-fluffy persona. It's that she has shown not a scintilla, not a yot nor tittle of capacity or instinct for sadness at the fate of another.

edited 17th Oct '10 2:39:40 PM by GreybeardFan

Um...

Tell you what, Revestra...

Right now I am up in my ass in deadline alligators AND we're within hours of the next page going up. Tomorrow, though, if it's still useful and needed I should have time to take a proper round.

Aaaaaand... I just tried to at least give you a nice short version, and quickly realized I can't DO short. Not right now.

Seriously, tomorrow? I have to get a mess of stuff in by noon, but I should be free after that.

I rather agree on that point, Greybeard. At this point in the story there seems to be a need for the distant call of bugles and the thundering hoofbeats of charging cavalry. Higgs fits the bill perfectly. He has the pure physical power to overcome even Movit #11 (though it might take something beyond his beloved wrench) and plenty of motivation for doing so. And given how physically tough Zeetha has proven to be, that stab wound should not be even temporarily fatal. I'm rather hoping with Agatha and Axel's need for revenge and Gil's sense of betrayal, Zola is toast.

(and why is it sticking this huge space at the end of my post?)

Rev, that's where an ad would go if you weren't (presumably) using some kind of ad blocker.

Ol Bear, that wound should have gotten at least one of spleen, pancreas, or kidney, or possibly all three. Either one can be fatal within minutes, and instantly incapacitating (from blood pressure loss due to internal hemorrhage). If the victim survives that, the spilling of intestinal contents makes long-term survival unlikely. All of that is, of course, in the absence of prompt medical/Sparky assistance. But warriors don't tough out wounds like that. They die from them.

But there might just be time for Zeetha to grab one of those trilobytes. Look where Phil has drawn Zeetha's right hand.

Zola may still have that space-warping gizmo, or something like it, in which case she may have a means of escape that will prevent Our Heroes from following.

High for kidneys, and a bit central for spleen and gall bladder. My own guess was stomach and liver, with possible damage to diaphragm and lungs. Unfortunately very high odds of hitting a central vein or artery. Serious belly wounds, if I am right, are usually lower: worse to get intestine than to get stomach, IIRC...and I may not. But Zola appears to have hit just under the lower arch of the ribcage and angled up. Too low for the heart, but possible damage to all sorts of other stuff.

All of which may be moot due to Comic Drawing Imprecision, or Sparky Ability To Warp Real Science. But while I think she got nailed, and nailed hard, I think it's not quite as bad as it might have been were it lower or less central. Liver, for example, is rather tolerant of having bits chopped off.

My apologies now for a double-post. This one is almost certainly my error.

edited 17th Oct '10 5:11:04 PM by GreybeardFan

The liver bleeds badly, though. I think it's worse for a gunshot; the shock wave from a rifle bullet might liquify part of the liver. As to side and center, remember that Zeetha's abdomen is narrower than a male warrior's and that's a wide blade, more a gladius than a rapier. Not that I'm any expert.

Wikipedia graphic here; click on the graphic for a full-size diagram.

edited 17th Oct '10 4:54:23 PM by GreybeardFan

Taking a break from writing articles....

Tarvek. Weapons. No knowledge. A few guesses.

First: he's really not a happy warrior. No sense he LIKES fighting in the real combat sense, and every indication he prefers to avoid it when possible. The mock fight with Gil was a different thing entirely: part show, part getting his own back, part sport, but NOT a true fight. But he's a proven pragmatist, and I doubt that he'd pass up a zap-gun in a pinch. So, why doesn't he carry?

Well, it's almost always safer to get captured without arms, and easier to escape capture if you're not tempted to stay and fight. So from that POV a gun will often only get you in some kind of trouble. For example it's very likely that Scorp brought him in to the hospital happily because he was an unarmed person damaged in action, rather than an armed person who'd racked up a few dead Wulfenbach soldiers on the way to capture.

Training: he's rather clearly trained as Violetta is trained, for hand-to-hand, subterfuge, and stealth. He's carried the stealth element farther than most.

Most LIKELY in my mind,though:

He is actively trying to evade the plans others laid in place for him prior to his birth. His own family can't be trusted. He needs to be underestimated on a level even Zola hasn't achieved, because there is not one single person we know of he can rely on. To be so completely underestimated he has to pass as a gormless, vain, Percy Blakeney idiot, in classic Scarlet Pimpernel fashion. So, again, in most situations he would choose to be clearly and obviously not a threat. If you want to be mistaken for an utter nebbish by even the people who know you well, you can't risk breaking the role for the comfort of a Nice, Effective Death Ray.

Now, it could be that, or some combination of that, or something entirely different, or for all we know he will turn out to be toting unimaginable firepower in some seriously bewildering Hammerspace. Or the whole "nascent Storm King" thing may end up with him sending zappy-rays out of every finger. But for now, those are my theories, such as they are.

Greybeard....

Liquified liver? Eeeeeeew. And I LIKE liver....Just....

Eeeeeeeew.

edited 17th Oct '10 6:12:41 PM by Hippogrif

I love it! Calves' liver, rare with either caramelized onions or fresh lime juice, chicken liver rumaki, any of a number of liver pate's . . . YOM!

Yes, Ol Bear, though I have yet to find a way to deal with turkey liver that really pleases me. Turkey liver is as fussy and dry as turkey breast, and it goes all bitter and gritty at a moment's notice.

On the other hand, pork liver is awesome on the rare occasions one can find it. I never realized that the spicy flavor of braunschwieger wasn't added until I found some pork liver and fried it up. OMG. Onion, garlic, bacon, and die happy!

Tarvek and weapons: as long as he can speak, he has his most powerful and effective weapon.

Waiting for the sneaky gate, heart in throat!

But Tarvek has such very bad luck with words! He tries to communicate and no one listens!

Well. At least Lu and the Geisters listened long enough to get him and Agatha out of Sturmhalten. He did do well there. But Agatha and Gil just sort of steamroller over his best efforts.