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* EsotericHappyEnding: After the events of the last book, the underworld is supposed to improve significantly, going from an eternal torture chamber of souls to a transitory corridor after which every soul can become one with the universe. Its former tormenters, the harpies, are left explicitly as judges, tasked with the mission to guide only those souls who have actively lived a fulfilling life back when they were alive. However, with such a vague criteria, it’s inevitable people will be deemed to have wasted their lives (especially given that the harpies seem to have a [[BlueAndOrangeMorality weirdly specific idea]] of what counts and what doesn't).[[note]]According to them, Lyra's childhood adventures were the first truly nourishing life recollection they ever heard -- the first in the ''billions and billions of souls'' they had welcomed in the netherworld.[[/note]] The situation has improved from everybody being trapped forever to being trapped based on the arbitrary judgement of [[EldritchAbomination eldritch abominations]] on how you spent your life. [[FelonyMisdemeanor Essentially, eternal suffering if you’re deemed too boring.]]

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* EsotericHappyEnding: EsotericHappyEnding:
**
After the events of the last book, the underworld is supposed to improve significantly, going from an eternal torture chamber of souls to a transitory corridor after which every soul can become one with the universe. Its former tormenters, the harpies, are left explicitly as judges, tasked with the mission to guide only those souls who have actively lived a fulfilling life back when they were alive. However, with such a vague criteria, it’s inevitable people will be deemed to have wasted their lives (especially given that the harpies seem to have a [[BlueAndOrangeMorality weirdly specific idea]] of what counts and what doesn't).[[note]]According to them, Lyra's childhood adventures were the first truly nourishing life recollection they ever heard -- the first in the ''billions and billions of souls'' they had welcomed in the netherworld.[[/note]] The situation has improved from everybody being trapped forever to being trapped based on the arbitrary judgement of [[EldritchAbomination eldritch abominations]] on how you spent your life. [[FelonyMisdemeanor Essentially, eternal suffering if you’re you're deemed too boring.]]]]
** Even after Mary and the leads visit their world, it seems no solution is given to the conflict between the Mulefa and the Tualapi. The whole threat of the Tualapi feels already farfetched, given that their only advantage over the Mulefa is the inexplicable fear they inspire on them, and no real explanation is given about why could not the sturdier, smarter, faster and better naturally-armed Mulefa simply [[TrainingThePeacefulVillagers organize themselves and absolutely waste the birds]]. It seems so easily soluble that it strikes as odd that is never touched upon, to the Mulefa's misfortune.
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* DontShootTheMessage: Overlapping with OffendingTheCreatorsOwn, there's quite a few atheists who think that the whole [[ReligionIsWrong "religion is bad"]] theme was pushed way too hard.

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Author's Saving Throw requires Word Of God.


* AuthorsSavingThrow: Season 2 has a significant increase in visible daemons. Presumably, the greater proportion of scenes in our world where fewer special effects are necessary freed up some of the budget for it.


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* SalvagedStory: Season 2 has a significant increase in visible daemons. Presumably, the greater proportion of scenes in our world where fewer special effects are necessary freed up some of the budget for it.
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** It's hard to tell if he cares for Lyra at all. While he [[spoiler:is visibly shaken at the thought of possibly killing her, he has no problem killing her best friend and abandoning her in the arctic straight after. Then he freely admits to never thinking about her, doesn't deny it when Marisa Coulter accuses him of hating her, and only seems to show any pride in Lyra when she becomes a thorn in the side of ''his'' enemies. Right afterwards, he seems to do a 180 while talking Marisa into helping him kill the Authority... but then afterwards it comes out he never set up Lyra with any sort of safety net if anything should happen to him. It doesn't help that he manipulated Marisa before in the same novel and only gives any indication of caring for Lyra when he can use it to get Marisa to help him.]]
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Renamed tropes


** The show reimagines Lee Scoresby from a grizzled, taciturn cowboy to a young, wisecracking Han Solo-type, more in line with his characterisation in the prequel story ''Once Upon a Time in the North''. Some fans really liked the younger version for bringing some much-needed humour to the show and being played by the highly popular Lin-Manuel Miranda. Others derided it as a pointless and confusing change and [[WTHCastingAgency criticize Miranda's casting]], especially when compared to the well-received casting of Creator/SamElliott as the version in ''Film/TheGoldenCompass'' that was more similar to the original character. The fact that Miranda [[OohMeAccentsSlipping kept forgetting he was supposed to have a Texan accent]] also didn't help.

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** The show reimagines Lee Scoresby from a grizzled, taciturn cowboy to a young, wisecracking Han Solo-type, more in line with his characterisation in the prequel story ''Once Upon a Time in the North''. Some fans really liked the younger version for bringing some much-needed humour to the show and being played by the highly popular Lin-Manuel Miranda. Others derided it as a pointless and confusing change and [[WTHCastingAgency [[QuestionableCasting criticize Miranda's casting]], especially when compared to the well-received casting of Creator/SamElliott as the version in ''Film/TheGoldenCompass'' that was more similar to the original character. The fact that Miranda [[OohMeAccentsSlipping kept forgetting he was supposed to have a Texan accent]] also didn't help.

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Actor trivia shoehorns.


* HilariousInHindsight:
** Creator/DafneKeen being cast as Lyra and Creator/JamesMcAvoy as Lord Asriel: Keen played Comicbook/{{X 23}} in ''Film/{{Logan}}'' opposite Creator/PatrickStewart as an elderly Comicbook/ProfessorX, while [=McAvoy=] plays the younger Xavier in the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries''.
** This isn't first time Andrew Scott has something to do with [[Film/{{Spectre}} spectres]] either.
** At the exact same time that "The Scholar" aired, with its discussion of the Magisterium's refusal to allow women to be doctors, the Wall Street Journal got in hot water for an op-ed claiming new First Lady Dr. Jill Biden doesn't deserve the title, drawing tons of accusations of sexism.

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* HilariousInHindsight:
** Creator/DafneKeen being cast as Lyra and Creator/JamesMcAvoy as Lord Asriel: Keen played Comicbook/{{X 23}} in ''Film/{{Logan}}'' opposite Creator/PatrickStewart as an elderly Comicbook/ProfessorX, while [=McAvoy=] plays the younger Xavier in the ''Film/XMenFilmSeries''.
** This isn't first time Andrew Scott has something to do with [[Film/{{Spectre}} spectres]] either.
**
HilariousInHindsight: At the exact same time that "The Scholar" aired, with its discussion of the Magisterium's refusal to allow women to be doctors, the Wall Street Journal got in hot water for an op-ed claiming new First Lady Dr. Jill Biden doesn't deserve the title, drawing tons of accusations of sexism.
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* EsotericHappyEnding: After the events of the last book, the underworld is supposed to improve significantly, going from an eternal torture chamber of souls to a transitory corridor after which every soul can become one with the universe. Its former tormenters, the harpies, are left explicitly as judges, tasked with the mission to guide only those souls who have actively lived a fulfilling life back when they were alive. With such a vague criteria it’s inevitable people will be deemed to have wasted their lives. The situation has improved from everybody being trapped to being trapped based on the arbitrary judgement of eldritch abominations on how you spent your life. [[FelonyMisdemeanor Essentially eternal suffering if you’re deemed too boring.]]

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* EsotericHappyEnding: After the events of the last book, the underworld is supposed to improve significantly, going from an eternal torture chamber of souls to a transitory corridor after which every soul can become one with the universe. Its former tormenters, the harpies, are left explicitly as judges, tasked with the mission to guide only those souls who have actively lived a fulfilling life back when they were alive. With However, with such a vague criteria criteria, it’s inevitable people will be deemed to have wasted their lives. lives (especially given that the harpies seem to have a [[BlueAndOrangeMorality weirdly specific idea]] of what counts and what doesn't).[[note]]According to them, Lyra's childhood adventures were the first truly nourishing life recollection they ever heard -- the first in the ''billions and billions of souls'' they had welcomed in the netherworld.[[/note]] The situation has improved from everybody being trapped forever to being trapped based on the arbitrary judgement of [[EldritchAbomination eldritch abominations abominations]] on how you spent your life. [[FelonyMisdemeanor Essentially Essentially, eternal suffering if you’re deemed too boring.]]
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** The witches - interesting characters, or bland and useless? Some have compared them to the elves in Film/TheLordOfTheRings, saying that while they're gorgeous and mysterious, the fact that they have little actual flavour or spice to their characters makes them uninteresting.

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** The witches - interesting characters, or bland and useless? Some have compared them to the elves in Film/TheLordOfTheRings, ''Film/TheLordOfTheRings'', saying that while they're gorgeous and mysterious, the fact that they have little actual flavour or spice to their characters makes them uninteresting.
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** It must be somewhat uncomfortable to have your inner nature projected for everyone to see, if not outright dangerous in some cases (eg the same-sex daemons = homosexuality theory).

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** It must be somewhat uncomfortable to have your inner nature projected for everyone to see, if not outright dangerous in some cases (eg (e.g. the same-sex daemons = homosexuality theory).
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** Comparing the series to the maligned ''Film/TheGoldenCompass'' 2007 adaptation, specifically about their respective faithfulness to the material and artistic choices, can bring in a surprising amount of division. It's generally agreed that the series has the clear advantage in setting and story, as the film's decision to remove the religious element crippled the entire adaptation in many people's eyes, but it's also considered that the movie's portrayal of the characters and especially its cast (some of which was considered excellent by Pullman himself) were much more closer to the books. Conversely, people also praise the series for adopting a more realistic, subdued DieselPunk in comparison to the film's fantastic {{Steampunk}} outlook, but it is also acknowledged that the film's visuals were eye-catchingly unique and used the right amount of budget to show daemons in plenty.

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** Comparing the series to the maligned ''Film/TheGoldenCompass'' 2007 adaptation, specifically about their respective faithfulness to the material and artistic choices, can bring in a surprising amount of division. It's generally agreed that the series has the clear advantage in setting and story, as the film's decision to remove downplay the religious element crippled the entire adaptation in many people's eyes, but it's also considered that the movie's portrayal of the characters and especially its cast (some of which was considered excellent by Pullman himself) were much more closer to the books. Conversely, people also praise the series for adopting a more realistic, subdued DieselPunk in comparison to the film's fantastic {{Steampunk}} outlook, but it is also acknowledged that the film's visuals were eye-catchingly unique and used the right amount of budget to show daemons in plenty.
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* {{Padding}}: Having made the decision to introduce Will in the first book's adaptation makes sense, as readers and viewers can get to know Will before he comes out of nowhere wince we reach the text of the second book. However, the crew seems to believe that we'd forget about him unless they occasionally cut to him wandering around for about 20 seconds or someone sitting in a car outside his house every now and then. The fact that they stretched what amounts to the first few chapters of the second book to match the whole length of the first book goes to show how little there was to tell.

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* {{Padding}}: Having made the decision to introduce Will in the first book's adaptation makes sense, as readers and viewers can get to know Will before he comes out of nowhere wince once we reach the text of the second book. However, the crew seems to believe that we'd forget about him unless they occasionally cut to him wandering around for about 20 seconds or someone sitting in a car outside his house every now and then. The fact that they stretched what amounts to the first few chapters of the second book to match the whole length of the first book goes to show how little there was to tell.
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** The Mulefa, rather than having diamond-shaped skeletons with one front leg, two middle legs and one hind leg, are now shown to have an anatomy like a common Earth animal, resembling a mix of giraffe and elephant. Some fans felt this depiction was sufficient and more realistic in their portrayal, especially as they at least keep the seed pod wheels, while others are disappointed that the Mulefa look more mundane and less weird and "alien".
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** Season 3 brings us [[spoiler: The World of the Dead. It looks benign enough at first, with pipeline and road leading to a station of some kind. However, after the trip by barge Lyra and Will end up in what is essentially [[Literature/LordOfTheRings Mordor]], but with rocks substituted by decayed human-made objects and in BlackoutBasement. The Harpies, which are [[NothingIsScarier not show at first beyond their unholy shriek]], don't help much either. And then there is [[BottomlessPits The Abyss]] blown by Metatron, a dark void that traps one forever.]].

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** Season 3 brings us [[spoiler: The World of the Dead. It looks benign enough at first, with pipeline and road leading to a station of some kind. However, after the trip by barge Lyra and Will end up in what is essentially [[Literature/LordOfTheRings Mordor]], but with rocks substituted by decayed human-made objects and in BlackoutBasement. The Harpies, which are [[NothingIsScarier not show shown at first beyond their unholy shriek]], don't help much either. And then there is [[BottomlessPits The Abyss]] blown by Metatron, a dark void that traps one forever.]].
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Added DiffLines:

** Season 3 brings us [[spoiler: The World of the Dead. It looks benign enough at first, with pipeline and road leading to a station of some kind. However, after the trip by barge Lyra and Will end up in what is essentially [[Literature/LordOfTheRings Mordor]], but with rocks substituted by decayed human-made objects and in BlackoutBasement. The Harpies, which are [[NothingIsScarier not show at first beyond their unholy shriek]], don't help much either. And then there is [[BottomlessPits The Abyss]] blown by Metatron, a dark void that traps one forever.]].

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* EsotericHappyEnding: After the events of the last book, the underworld is supposed to improve significantly, going from an eternal torture chamber of souls to a transitory corridor after which every soul can become one with the universe. Its former tormenters, the harpies, are left explicitly as judges, tasked with the mission to guide only those souls who have actively lived a fulfilling life back when they were alive. With such a vague criteria it’s inevitable people will be deemed to have wasted their lives. The situation has improved from everybody being trapped to being trapped based on the arbitrary judgement of eldritch abominations on how you spent your life. [[FelonyMisdemeanor Essentially eternal suffering if you’re deemed too boring]]

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\n* EsotericHappyEnding: After the events of the last book, the underworld is supposed to improve significantly, going from an eternal torture chamber of souls to a transitory corridor after which every soul can become one with the universe. Its former tormenters, the harpies, are left explicitly as judges, tasked with the mission to guide only those souls who have actively lived a fulfilling life back when they were alive. With such a vague criteria it’s inevitable people will be deemed to have wasted their lives. The situation has improved from everybody being trapped to being trapped based on the arbitrary judgement of eldritch abominations on how you spent your life. [[FelonyMisdemeanor Essentially eternal suffering if you’re deemed too boring]]boring.]]
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It’s made clear the harpies will refuse people they seem to have wasted their lives. It’s hammered in later when Lyra brings up the risk of never leaving the world of the dead just for ‘Living their lives and having nothing to tell’

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* EsotericHappyEnding: After the events of the last book, the underworld is supposed to improve significantly, going from an eternal torture chamber of souls to a transitory corridor after which every soul can become one with the universe. Its former tormenters, the harpies, are left explicitly as judges, tasked with the mission to guide only those souls who have actively lived a fulfilling life back when they were alive. With such a vague criteria it’s inevitable people will be deemed to have wasted their lives. The situation has improved from everybody being trapped to being trapped based on the arbitrary judgement of eldritch abominations on how you spent your life. [[FelonyMisdemeanor Essentially eternal suffering if you’re deemed too boring]]
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Sorry - correcting another accidental deletion. New iOS seems to be extending my "cut" highlighting.


* EnsembleDarkhorse: Iorek Byrnison, and by extension the rest of the Panserbjorne. [[RuleOfCool This one's]] [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot to expected.]]

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* EnsembleDarkhorse: Iorek Byrnison, and by extension the rest of the Panserbjorne. [[RuleOfCool This one's]] [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot to be expected.]]
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Readding something I deleted by accident.


* EnsembleDarkhorse: Iorek Byrnison, and by extension the rest of the Panserbjorne. [[RuleOfCool This one's]] [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot to be

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* EnsembleDarkhorse: Iorek Byrnison, and by extension the rest of the Panserbjorne. [[RuleOfCool This one's]] [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot to be expected.]]
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Editing an example as the Esoteric Happy Ending entry was incorrect info, examples are not arguable, and they shouldn't depend on other entries on the page for context.


** The afterlife as shown in ''The Amber Spyglass'' is absolutely terrifying on an existential level: The souls of entire worlds walk across an infinite field while being tormented by harpies. '''Forever.''' Oh, and as noted above under EsotericHappyEnding, even the improvements made by the protagonists arguably don't make it all that better.

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** The afterlife as shown in ''The Amber Spyglass'' is absolutely terrifying on an existential level: The level, before Lyra and Will free them: the souls of entire worlds walk across an infinite field while being tormented by harpies. '''Forever.''' Oh, and as noted above under EsotericHappyEnding, even the improvements made by the protagonists arguably don't make it all that better.

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Removing a YMMV that's based on completely wrong/false info. Nowhere is it implied or stated that the harpies only want "active" stories like Lyra's — straight from the book, they only want true stories about a dead person's life: "if they live in the world, they should see and touch and hear and learn things". That does not imply "active like Lyra" at all. In fact, they state outright that they'll make exceptions for infants. The only condition the harpies make is that the life stories be true.


* EnsembleDarkhorse: Iorek Byrnison, and by extension the rest of the Panserbjorne. [[RuleOfCool This one's]] [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot to be expected]].
* EsotericHappyEnding: After the events of the last book, the underworld is supposed to improve significantly, going from an eternal torture chamber of souls to a transitory corridor after which every soul can become one with the universe. Its former tormenters, the harpies, are left explicitly as judges, tasked with the mission to guide only those souls who have actively lived a fulfilling life back when they were alive. Now, the thing is that Gracious Wings and her kind seem to have a [[BlueAndOrangeMorality weirdly specific idea]] of what counts as such: as they stated that Lyra's child adventures were the first truly nourishing life recollection they ever heard, this implies they will only let in people that have been outdoorsy and extroverted like Lyra, ignoring all the other possible forms of enjoyment and fulfillment humans can experiment in their lives. From this perspective, afterlife has improved only marginally, and possibly even worsened for some: it has changed from a place with no salvation to a place with salvation for a few only, while the rest will be left there in bitterness because their own sources of joy happened to be different than mandated.

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* EnsembleDarkhorse: Iorek Byrnison, and by extension the rest of the Panserbjorne. [[RuleOfCool This one's]] [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot to be expected]].
* EsotericHappyEnding: After the events of the last book, the underworld is supposed to improve significantly, going from an eternal torture chamber of souls to a transitory corridor after which every soul can become one with the universe. Its former tormenters, the harpies, are left explicitly as judges, tasked with the mission to guide only those souls who have actively lived a fulfilling life back when they were alive. Now, the thing is that Gracious Wings and her kind seem to have a [[BlueAndOrangeMorality weirdly specific idea]] of what counts as such: as they stated that Lyra's child adventures were the first truly nourishing life recollection they ever heard, this implies they will only let in people that have been outdoorsy and extroverted like Lyra, ignoring all the other possible forms of enjoyment and fulfillment humans can experiment in their lives. From this perspective, afterlife has improved only marginally, and possibly even worsened for some: it has changed from a place with no salvation to a place with salvation for a few only, while the rest will be left there in bitterness because their own sources of joy happened to be different than mandated.
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** It's mentioned that after Svalbard became uninhabitable for the Panserbjørn from Lord Asriel's successful window, the bears have had to flee elsewhere, going to the Himalayas in search of a safer environment--- but Iorek observes they can't live ''there,'' either. [[spoiler: It's ultimately a good thing when that window is closed at ''Spyglass's'' end.]]

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** It's mentioned that after Svalbard became uninhabitable for the Panserbjørn from Lord Asriel's successful window, the bears have had to flee elsewhere, going to the Himalayas in search of a safer environment--- environment-- but Iorek observes they can't live ''there,'' either. [[spoiler: It's ultimately a good thing when that window is closed at ''Spyglass's'' end.]]
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* UnfortunateImplications: As a [[http://www.reason.com/news/show/124392.html Reason.com review]] pointed out, it's kind of ironic that Phillip Pullman labels other works like ''Narnia'' as sexist and full of class snobbery, when Will, the male hero, is the one who gets to fight the most and even becomes TheChosenOne in control of the mystical Subtle Knife, while Lyra's greatest feats are accomplished by "feminine" wiles like lying and manipulation. The class snobbery manifests in that Lyra is the (illegitimate) daughter of aristocrats and is vastly superior in intellect and wits than her friends in Oxford (who also happen to be the children of servants) and Will is the son of a Royal Marines officer from the beginning.

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