History YMMV / HisDarkMaterials

11th Jul '16 8:04:52 AM WhatArtThee
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%%* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: [[InternetBackdraft Don't even get us started...]]
16th Jun '16 10:36:32 AM NonoRobot
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* {{Anvilicious}}: ''The Amber Spyglass'' in comparison to the other two books, at least to some. Some of the more laid-back fans like to TakeAThirdOption and say that SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped.
* BrokenBase: The [[BitterSweetEnding ending]] has been...polarizing. Not to mention the third book's...message. See [[InternetBackdraft Internet Backdraft]] below and Anvilicious above for more details.

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* %%* {{Anvilicious}}: ''The Amber Spyglass'' in comparison to the other two books, at least to some. Some of the more laid-back fans like to TakeAThirdOption and say that SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped.
* BrokenBase: The [[BitterSweetEnding ending]] has been... polarizing. Not to mention the third book's...message. See [[InternetBackdraft Internet Backdraft]] below and Anvilicious above for more details. book's message.



* InternetBackdraft: Mention the third book. Go ahead, [[ShmuckBait we dare you.]]
* MagnificentBastard: Lord Asriel.
* MagnificentBitch: Mrs. Coulter

to:

* %%* InternetBackdraft: Mention the third book. Go ahead, [[ShmuckBait we dare you.]]
* %%* MagnificentBastard: Lord Asriel.
* %%* MagnificentBitch: Mrs. CoulterCoulter.



* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: [[InternetBackdraft Don't even get us started...]]

to:

* %%* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: [[InternetBackdraft Don't even get us started...]]
16th Jun '16 10:33:18 AM NonoRobot
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** '''Pantalaimon'''. He's [[NiceGuy constantly there for Lyra]], always takes equal blame for everything she does, against his advice, is constantly ignored like every other daemon when attention isn't called to him, which is seldom in Will's world, and he loses everything Lyra does, when none of it would've been lost if she'd just listened to him the whole time. The third book [[SerialEscalation cranks it]] [[UpToEleven up a notch]] when he [[spoiler: is left behind in extreme physical and emotional pain, on the shores of an undead world, not knowing if the most important person in his life is ever coming back, [[TearJerker only that she loves her friend enough to abandon him in his stead.]]]] He gets better from this, only to [[spoiler: [[DidNotGetTheGirl have to leave his newfound lover behind]] because [[StarCrossedLovers worlds were never meant to be left, and as you leave your world, you gradually become sicker and sicker.]]]]

to:

** '''Pantalaimon'''.Pantalaimon. He's [[NiceGuy constantly there for Lyra]], always takes equal blame for everything she does, against his advice, is constantly ignored like every other daemon when attention isn't called to him, which is seldom in Will's world, and he loses everything Lyra does, when none of it would've been lost if she'd just listened to him the whole time. The third book [[SerialEscalation cranks it]] [[UpToEleven up a notch]] when he [[spoiler: is left behind in extreme physical and emotional pain, on the shores of an undead world, not knowing if the most important person in his life is ever coming back, [[TearJerker only that she loves her friend enough to abandon him in his stead.]]]] He gets better from this, only to [[spoiler: [[DidNotGetTheGirl have to leave his newfound lover behind]] because [[StarCrossedLovers worlds were never meant to be left, and as you leave your world, you gradually become sicker and sicker.]]]]
16th Jun '16 10:32:16 AM NonoRobot
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* GeniusBonus: Shortly after they meet, Will and Lyra question why "electricity" refers to what is called "anbarism" in Lyra's world, and why the stone called "electrum" in Lyra's world is called "amber" in Will's. Though neither child realizes the connection, the evolution of both terms alludes to the fact that the first observations of electricity (in our world, anyway!) came from pieces of amber imparting static charges to feathers and other small particles.

to:

* GeniusBonus: GeniusBonus:
**
Shortly after they meet, Will and Lyra question why "electricity" refers to what is called "anbarism" in Lyra's world, and why the stone called "electrum" in Lyra's world is called "amber" in Will's. Though neither child realizes the connection, the evolution of both terms alludes to the fact that the first observations of electricity (in our world, anyway!) came from pieces of amber imparting static charges to feathers and other small particles.



* HolyShitQuotient: In ''The Amber Spyglass'' we get a battle scene in another dimension between armies composed of, and this is all true: angels, witches, ghosts, cosmic horrors, interdimensional aliens, jet fighters, at least one PhysicalGod as well as ''God himself'', badass lilliputians, steampunk airships, soldiers armed with rifles, machine guns, flamethrowers and ''poison gas guns'', monsters, animal spirits, floating fortresses, thunder and lightning, and, of course, armored polar bears.

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* HolyShitQuotient: HolyShitQuotient:
**
In ''The Amber Spyglass'' we get a battle scene in another dimension between armies composed of, and this is all true: angels, witches, ghosts, cosmic horrors, interdimensional aliens, jet fighters, at least one PhysicalGod as well as ''God himself'', badass lilliputians, steampunk airships, soldiers armed with rifles, machine guns, flamethrowers and ''poison gas guns'', monsters, animal spirits, floating fortresses, thunder and lightning, and, of course, armored polar bears.



* TheWoobie: Will also qualifies, especially when he finds his father [[spoiler: [[ShaggyDogStory Only to have him shot in cold blood before he could properly meet him]]]]. Not to mention he has to suffer the same emotional and physical pains Pan does in the last book, except for the [[spoiler: betrayal]].

to:

* TheWoobie: TheWoobie:
** '''Pantalaimon'''. He's [[NiceGuy constantly there for Lyra]], always takes equal blame for everything she does, against his advice, is constantly ignored like every other daemon when attention isn't called to him, which is seldom in Will's world, and he loses everything Lyra does, when none of it would've been lost if she'd just listened to him the whole time. The third book [[SerialEscalation cranks it]] [[UpToEleven up a notch]] when he [[spoiler: is left behind in extreme physical and emotional pain, on the shores of an undead world, not knowing if the most important person in his life is ever coming back, [[TearJerker only that she loves her friend enough to abandon him in his stead.]]]] He gets better from this, only to [[spoiler: [[DidNotGetTheGirl have to leave his newfound lover behind]] because [[StarCrossedLovers worlds were never meant to be left, and as you leave your world, you gradually become sicker and sicker.]]]]
**
Will also qualifies, especially when he finds his father [[spoiler: [[ShaggyDogStory Only to have him shot in cold blood before he could properly meet him]]]]. Not to mention he has to suffer the same emotional and physical pains Pan does in the last book, except for the [[spoiler: betrayal]].
16th Jun '16 8:57:43 AM OffTheDeepEnd
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* TheWoobie: '''Pantalaimon'''. He's [[NiceGuy constantly there for Lyra]], always takes equal blame for everything she does, against his advice, is constantly ignored like every other daemon when attention isn't called to him, which is seldom in Will's world, and he loses everything Lyra does, when none of it would've been lost if she'd just listened to him the whole time. The third book [[SerialEscalation cranks it]] [[UpToEleven up a notch]] when he [[spoiler: is left behind in extreme physical and emotional pain, on the shores of an undead world, not knowing if the most important person in his life is ever coming back, [[TearJerker only that she loves her friend enough to abandon him in his stead.]]]] He gets better from this, only to [[spoiler: [[DidNotGetTheGirl have to leave his newfound lover behind]] because [[StarCrossedLovers worlds were never meant to be left, and as you leave your world, you gradually become sicker and sicker.]]]] Will also qualifies, especially when he finds his father [[spoiler: [[ShaggyDogStory Only to have him shot in cold blood before he could properly meet him]]]]. Not to mention he has to suffer the same emotional and physical pains Pan does in the last book, except for the [[spoiler: betrayal]].

to:

* TheWoobie: '''Pantalaimon'''. He's [[NiceGuy constantly there for Lyra]], always takes equal blame for everything she does, against his advice, is constantly ignored like every other daemon when attention isn't called to him, which is seldom in Will's world, and he loses everything Lyra does, when none of it would've been lost if she'd just listened to him the whole time. The third book [[SerialEscalation cranks it]] [[UpToEleven up a notch]] when he [[spoiler: is left behind in extreme physical and emotional pain, on the shores of an undead world, not knowing if the most important person in his life is ever coming back, [[TearJerker only that she loves her friend enough to abandon him in his stead.]]]] He gets better from this, only to [[spoiler: [[DidNotGetTheGirl have to leave his newfound lover behind]] because [[StarCrossedLovers worlds were never meant to be left, and as you leave your world, you gradually become sicker and sicker.]]]] Will also qualifies, especially when he finds his father [[spoiler: [[ShaggyDogStory Only to have him shot in cold blood before he could properly meet him]]]]. Not to mention he has to suffer the same emotional and physical pains Pan does in the last book, except for the [[spoiler: betrayal]].
4th Nov '15 1:58:49 PM Anddrix
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* UnfortunateImplications: As a [[http://www.reason.com/news/show/124392.html Reason.com review]] pointed out: Its kind of ironic that Phillip Pullman labels other works like ''Narnia'' as sexist and full of class snobbery, when Will the male hero, is the one who gets to fight the most and even becomes TheChosenOne in control of the mystical Subtle Knife, meanwhile Lyra's greatest feats are accomplished by "feminine" wiles like lying and manipulation. The class snobbery manifests in that Lyra is the (illegitimate) daughter of aristocrats and is vastly superior in intellect and wits than her friends in Oxford ([[UnfortunateImplications who also happen to be the children of servants]]) and Will being the son of a Royal Marines officer from the beginning.
** The class side of this is certainly debatable - Lyra is spurned at best by her real parents for much of the series, and isn't really raised or cultured as part of the elite. Where we meet Will, his father is missing without a trace and at least in his abscence his son and wife aren't particularly affluent either. The series doesn't follow a cut-and-dry line of upper class = good and smart and lower class = incompetent either, taking into account characters such as Lee Scoresby and the Gyptians; most, if not all of the villains/more morally dubious characters are from higher stations too. Even protagonists who are from positions of authority are often portrayed as at least slightly snobby and out-of-touch.

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: As a [[http://www.reason.com/news/show/124392.html Reason.com review]] pointed out: Its kind of ironic that Phillip Pullman labels other works like ''Narnia'' as sexist and full of class snobbery, when Will the male hero, is the one who gets to fight the most and even becomes TheChosenOne in control of the mystical Subtle Knife, meanwhile Lyra's greatest feats are accomplished by "feminine" wiles like lying and manipulation. The class snobbery manifests in that Lyra is the (illegitimate) daughter of aristocrats and is vastly superior in intellect and wits than her friends in Oxford ([[UnfortunateImplications who (who also happen to be the children of servants]]) servants) and Will being the son of a Royal Marines officer from the beginning.
** The class side of this is certainly debatable - Lyra is spurned at best by her real parents for much of the series, and isn't really raised or cultured as part of the elite. Where we meet Will, his father is missing without a trace and at least in his abscence his son and wife aren't particularly affluent either. The series doesn't follow a cut-and-dry line of upper class = good and smart and lower class = incompetent either, taking into account characters such as Lee Scoresby and the Gyptians; most, if not all of the villains/more morally dubious characters are from higher stations too. Even protagonists who are from positions of authority are often portrayed as at least slightly snobby and out-of-touch.
beginning.
4th Nov '15 1:56:57 PM dtsmith91
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** The class side of this is certainly debatable - Lyra is spurned at best by her real parents for much of the series, and isn't really raised or cultured as part of the elite. The series doesn't follow a cut-and-dry line of upper class = good and smart and lower class = incompetent either, taking into account characters such as Lee Scoresby and the Gyptians, and how most of the villains are from higher stations. Even protagonists who are from positions of authority are often portrayed as at least slightly snobby and out-of-touch.

to:

** The class side of this is certainly debatable - Lyra is spurned at best by her real parents for much of the series, and isn't really raised or cultured as part of the elite. Where we meet Will, his father is missing without a trace and at least in his abscence his son and wife aren't particularly affluent either. The series doesn't follow a cut-and-dry line of upper class = good and smart and lower class = incompetent either, taking into account characters such as Lee Scoresby and the Gyptians, and how most Gyptians; most, if not all of the villains villains/more morally dubious characters are from higher stations.stations too. Even protagonists who are from positions of authority are often portrayed as at least slightly snobby and out-of-touch.
4th Nov '15 1:52:12 PM dtsmith91
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** The class side of this is debatable - Lyra is spurned at best by her real parents for much of the series, and isn't really raised or cultured as part of the elite. The series doesn't follow a cut-and-dry line of upper class = good and smart and lower class = incompetent either, taking into account characters such as Lee Scoresby and the Gyptians, and how most of the villains are from higher stations. Even protagonists who are from positions of authority are often portrayed as at least slightly snobby and out-of-touch.

to:

** The class side of this is certainly debatable - Lyra is spurned at best by her real parents for much of the series, and isn't really raised or cultured as part of the elite. The series doesn't follow a cut-and-dry line of upper class = good and smart and lower class = incompetent either, taking into account characters such as Lee Scoresby and the Gyptians, and how most of the villains are from higher stations. Even protagonists who are from positions of authority are often portrayed as at least slightly snobby and out-of-touch.
4th Nov '15 1:51:34 PM dtsmith91
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Added DiffLines:

** The class side of this is debatable - Lyra is spurned at best by her real parents for much of the series, and isn't really raised or cultured as part of the elite. The series doesn't follow a cut-and-dry line of upper class = good and smart and lower class = incompetent either, taking into account characters such as Lee Scoresby and the Gyptians, and how most of the villains are from higher stations. Even protagonists who are from positions of authority are often portrayed as at least slightly snobby and out-of-touch.
27th May '15 7:20:40 PM SatoshiBakura
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* UnfortunateImplications: While it's arguable if GodIsEvil in this universe or if the Authority is just a GodGuise, it remains to be noticed that this book seems to doom abrahamic religions as bad: [[BlackAndWhiteMorality all the characters somehow linked to Christianity]] (even some random priest met by Will at some point who wasn't even part of the antagonists) are portrayed as [[FantasticRacism racist]], superstitious, fanatic, intolerant [[KnightTemplar Knight Templars]] who will doom evil anything the story classify as good. One of the witches even at some point delivers a speech where she states outright she considers any form of religion as bad. Oh, and the only time religion is mentioned in ''our'' world is to have a character mentioning she used to be a nun but left because she didn't feel it was good. Needless to say, the author had some problem because of this.
** As a [[http://www.reason.com/news/show/124392.html Reason.com review]] pointed out: Its kind of ironic that Phillip Pullman labels other works like ''Narnia'' as sexist and full of class snobbery, when Will the male hero, is the one who gets to fight the most and even becomes TheChosenOne in control of the mystical Subtle Knife, meanwhile Lyra's greatest feats are accomplished by "feminine" wiles like lying and manipulation. The class snobbery manifests in that Lyra is the (illegitimate) daughter of aristocrats and is vastly superior in intellect and wits than her friends in Oxford ([[UnfortunateImplications who also happen to be the children of servants]]) and Will being the son of a Royal Marines officer from the beginning.
** There's also the fact that "all servants" supposedly have dog dæmons, suggesting that they were chosen as servants because of their dæmons; people who don't have dogs as dæmons can't get the job because they are considered too independent. It's not hard to think of racial profiling or job discrimination when it comes to this. Then again, Lyra's world is supposed to be heavily classist and unfair.
** The [[UnfortunateImplications hypocritical elements]] mentioned above may be lampshaded via the character of Lord Asriel, who is in many ways Philip Pullman's mouthpiece. He is passionate and sincerely dedicated to ending the tyranny and oppression of the Kingdom of Heaven. Other characters occasionally point out, though, that Asriel pals around with kings, continues to use his title, bullies and/or abandons his servants and has a good dose of contempt for the lower orders.

to:

* UnfortunateImplications: While it's arguable if GodIsEvil in this universe or if the Authority is just a GodGuise, it remains to be noticed that this book seems to doom abrahamic religions as bad: [[BlackAndWhiteMorality all the characters somehow linked to Christianity]] (even some random priest met by Will at some point who wasn't even part of the antagonists) are portrayed as [[FantasticRacism racist]], superstitious, fanatic, intolerant [[KnightTemplar Knight Templars]] who will doom evil anything the story classify as good. One of the witches even at some point delivers a speech where she states outright she considers any form of religion as bad. Oh, and the only time religion is mentioned in ''our'' world is to have a character mentioning she used to be a nun but left because she didn't feel it was good. Needless to say, the author had some problem because of this.
**
As a [[http://www.reason.com/news/show/124392.html Reason.com review]] pointed out: Its kind of ironic that Phillip Pullman labels other works like ''Narnia'' as sexist and full of class snobbery, when Will the male hero, is the one who gets to fight the most and even becomes TheChosenOne in control of the mystical Subtle Knife, meanwhile Lyra's greatest feats are accomplished by "feminine" wiles like lying and manipulation. The class snobbery manifests in that Lyra is the (illegitimate) daughter of aristocrats and is vastly superior in intellect and wits than her friends in Oxford ([[UnfortunateImplications who also happen to be the children of servants]]) and Will being the son of a Royal Marines officer from the beginning.
** There's also the fact that "all servants" supposedly have dog dæmons, suggesting that they were chosen as servants because of their dæmons; people who don't have dogs as dæmons can't get the job because they are considered too independent. It's not hard to think of racial profiling or job discrimination when it comes to this. Then again, Lyra's world is supposed to be heavily classist and unfair.
** The [[UnfortunateImplications hypocritical elements]] mentioned above may be lampshaded via the character of Lord Asriel, who is in many ways Philip Pullman's mouthpiece. He is passionate and sincerely dedicated to ending the tyranny and oppression of the Kingdom of Heaven. Other characters occasionally point out, though, that Asriel pals around with kings, continues to use his title, bullies and/or abandons his servants and has a good dose of contempt for the lower orders.
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