Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: The marble Gawain got was actually Teatime's glass eye.]]
He said it wins all his games and moves in a different way. It's very likely that that eye, made of an unknown material, ended up becoming a toy for Gawain to play with.
He said it wins all his games and moves in a different way. It's very likely that that eye, made of an unknown material, ended up becoming a toy for Gawain to play with.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: His name really is pronounced "Teatime."]]
He only insists on "Teh-ah-tim-eh" as part of his childish desires (namely to be special and different as well as maintaining control over others). Death is only humoring him when he actually dies.
He only insists on "Teh-ah-tim-eh" as part of his childish desires (namely to be special and different as well as maintaining control over others). Death is only humoring him when he actually dies.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 36 (click to see context) from:
to:
* Note Death's words: THE HOGFATHER GIVES PRESENTS. THERE'S NO BETTER PRESENT THAN A FUTURE. He gave her a future, and put her in the care of Nobbs, who felt compelled to look after her. The problem that arose in ''Literature/{{Mort}}'' was saving the Princess, which disrupted the whole "hundred years of peace and plenty" that the Duke would bring about, and even after changing events so that she survived, Mort had to step into the historical role of the Duke of Sto Helit and spend the rest of his life bringing about the peace and plenty. As for a little match girl surviving in Ankh-Morpork, that's not disruptive enough to bother anybody. This concern is addressed in ''[[Literature/NightWatchDiscworld Night Watch]]'':
-->'''Vimes''': I've been changing things. Well, why shouldn't I? Carcer is! I have no idea how things are going to turn out! I mean, doesn't it change history even if you just tread on an ant?
-->'''Qu''': For the ant, certainly.
-->'''Lu-Tze''': I told you, Mister Vimes. History finds a way.
With that in mind, I second the idea that she survives and joins the Watch.
-->'''Vimes''': I've been changing things. Well, why shouldn't I? Carcer is! I have no idea how things are going to turn out! I mean, doesn't it change history even if you just tread on an ant?
-->'''Qu''': For the ant, certainly.
-->'''Lu-Tze''': I told you, Mister Vimes. History finds a way.
With that in mind, I second the idea that she survives and joins the Watch.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
{{WMG}}s for Literature/{{Discworld}} / Discworld/{{Hogfather}}. Warning: Potential unmarked spoilers.
to:
{{WMG}}s for Literature/{{Discworld}} / Discworld/{{Hogfather}}.Literature/{{Hogfather}}. Warning: Potential unmarked spoilers.
Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
Death was cheating with presents by stealing things from other people; but "Hogfather magic" is determined by the monetary bracket that they are in. The Little Match Girl had no money. He CANNOT break the rules here. This is part of the series mythos itself, the only exceptions were the princess in ''Discworld/{{Mort}}'', who Death called in favors from ''all'' the gods (Something he couldn't duplicate for Ysabell and Mort in ''Discworld/SoulMusic''), the girl in ''Discworld/ReaperMan'' who Death exchanged his Lifetimer for, and Rincewind. None of these cases apply. There is no justice.
to:
Death was cheating with presents by stealing things from other people; but "Hogfather magic" is determined by the monetary bracket that they are in. The Little Match Girl had no money. He CANNOT break the rules here. This is part of the series mythos itself, the only exceptions were the princess in ''Discworld/{{Mort}}'', ''Literature/{{Mort}}'', who Death called in favors from ''all'' the gods (Something he couldn't duplicate for Ysabell and Mort in ''Discworld/SoulMusic''), ''Literature/SoulMusic''), the girl in ''Discworld/ReaperMan'' ''Literature/ReaperMan'' who Death exchanged his Lifetimer for, and Rincewind. None of these cases apply. There is no justice.
Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
* Alternatively, ''Discworld/FeetOfClay'' clearly states that the reason why doctors can get away with gross malpractice in the Discworld but vets can't is because human life isn't worth anything while a good racehorse can be worth thousands. Using that scale, the match girl's life isn't worth anything, so the Hogfather is free to return it.
to:
* Alternatively, ''Discworld/FeetOfClay'' ''Literature/FeetOfClay'' clearly states that the reason why doctors can get away with gross malpractice in the Discworld but vets can't is because human life isn't worth anything while a good racehorse can be worth thousands. Using that scale, the match girl's life isn't worth anything, so the Hogfather is free to return it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 35 (click to see context) from:
to:
*Ive always assumes this was the reason for Nobby’s theft from the widows and orphans fund.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Catseye's birth name...]]
* Is Christopher. Kit for short.
* Is Christopher. Kit for short.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
to:
* Except Blind Io doesn't seem to have had any eyes in his head to begin with, just the floating ones that circle around him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 39,40 (click to see context) from:
The story begins with the scariest creatures in the universe attempting to kill Santa. Along the way, a skeleton (referred to a few times as [[FunetikAksent "skellington"]]) puts on Santa's outfit, the police are called in when Santa appears to have been replaced, people attempt to analyze items scientifically to discover the beauty in it. Children play an important role in stopping the villain and restoring Christmas, as well as providing the foundations of existence for the Boogeyman.
to:
The story begins with the scariest creatures in the universe attempting to kill Santa. Along the way, a skeleton (referred to a few times as [[FunetikAksent "skellington"]]) puts on Santa's outfit, the police are called in when Santa appears to have been replaced, people attempt to analyze items scientifically to discover the beauty in it. Children play an important role in stopping the villain and restoring Christmas, as well as providing the foundations of existence for the Boogeyman.
Bogeyman.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
It ''is'' [[AChristmasStory A Hogswatch Story]], after all.
to:
It ''is'' [[AChristmasStory [[Film/AChristmasStory A Hogswatch Story]], after all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* Alternatively, ''Discworld/FeetOfClay'' clearly states that the reason why doctors can get away with gross malpractice in the Discworld but vets can't is because human life isn't worth anything while a good racehorse can be worth thousands. Using that scale, the match girl's life isn't worth anything, so the Hogfather is free to return it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 29 (click to see context) from:
to:
* How about this; Nobby and Visit took the girl to the watchhouse where everyone else was celebrating, kept her warm, fed her, maybe Commander Vimes paid for her lodging to live through the winter, and five years later, she became a lance-constable in the Watch.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG: Teatime planned to kill death to take over his job.]]
to:
[[WMG: Teatime planned to kill death Death to take over his job.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 28,29 (click to see context) from:
* Death can't give people more time ''in his capacity as Death''. Who knows what rules apply as to what the Hogfather can, or can't, award as a present?
to:
* Death can't give people more time ''in his capacity as Death''. Who knows what rules apply as to what the Hogfather can, or can't, award as a present?
present? As for the economics factor, who says that life's value equates with monetary value? Only the Assassins' Guild, and by their standards the life of some poverty-stricken little girl might rate about the same as an apple and a crudely-carved wooden toy, so it's a fair transaction.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
to:
* Death can't give people more time ''in his capacity as Death''. Who knows what rules apply as to what the Hogfather can, or can't, award as a present?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 45 (click to see context) from:
to:
* Susan didn't say he'd picked on girls, she said he'd looked up ''dolls' dresses''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: It's Albert's fault that the Oh God of Hangovers manifested where he did.]]
All the other lares and penates became embodied at Unseen University, due to the localized ambient magic levels and thin reality quotient. Bilious, for no reason Susan could determine, appeared at the Hogfather's Castle of Bones instead. This wasn't merely because it's where the Hogfather ought to have been - as Susan herself noted, he ''shouldn't'' have been there on Hogswatchnight - but because it's where Death stopped to drop off the sleigh and send Albert home before going to advise Susan in her confrontation with the Auditors. To get Albert back to his own pocket reality, Death had to cancel the effect that'd held "pixie Albert"'s time suspended for Hogswatchnight, using up one or two of his servant's dwindling supply of seconds in the process. And, while Albert's honorary-pixie status had made him capable of downing more than a million sherries without exploding that night, once the effect was dissipated for those few precious seconds, the cumulative ''impact'' of those sherries - i.e. the single biggest hangover in Discworld history - slammed down on that old man for an instant. It's ''that'' which attracted the Oh God of Hangovers to manifest on that particular spot, albeit earlier chronologically than the actual mega-hangover poor Albert brought upon himself, much as the Glingleglingleglingle Fairy appeared before anyone actually wondered about him.
All the other lares and penates became embodied at Unseen University, due to the localized ambient magic levels and thin reality quotient. Bilious, for no reason Susan could determine, appeared at the Hogfather's Castle of Bones instead. This wasn't merely because it's where the Hogfather ought to have been - as Susan herself noted, he ''shouldn't'' have been there on Hogswatchnight - but because it's where Death stopped to drop off the sleigh and send Albert home before going to advise Susan in her confrontation with the Auditors. To get Albert back to his own pocket reality, Death had to cancel the effect that'd held "pixie Albert"'s time suspended for Hogswatchnight, using up one or two of his servant's dwindling supply of seconds in the process. And, while Albert's honorary-pixie status had made him capable of downing more than a million sherries without exploding that night, once the effect was dissipated for those few precious seconds, the cumulative ''impact'' of those sherries - i.e. the single biggest hangover in Discworld history - slammed down on that old man for an instant. It's ''that'' which attracted the Oh God of Hangovers to manifest on that particular spot, albeit earlier chronologically than the actual mega-hangover poor Albert brought upon himself, much as the Glingleglingleglingle Fairy appeared before anyone actually wondered about him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: The Hogfather didn't actually skip Nobby's house when Corporal Nobbs was growing up.]]
Even though they were dirt-poor, young Nobby and his brother Errol should at least have received the minimal stocking-stuffers of, say, an apple and a crude wooden toy. However, we know from ''Night Watch'' that Nobby's father Sconner was willing to steal even a ''spoon'' from his own son, so most likely their Jerkass dad was coming home in the wee hours from a night of crime and/or boozing each Hogswatchnight, and emptying his boys' stockings in order to eat or pawn the contents himself.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 46 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG: Peachy is still alive.]]
to:
[[WMG: Peachy (or Sideney in the TV adaptation) is still alive.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Peachy is still alive.]]
The nightmare that came after him was the Scissor Man, and that particular childhood bogey doesn't actually ''kill'' children, it just cuts off their thumbs so they can't suck them anymore. Assuming he managed not to expire from sheer terror, he would've been left maimed, not dead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
I had a WMG to add to the list.
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: Teatime removed his eye and replaced it with a scrying glass.]]
If Teatime's eye is a magical artifact, it might actually be a sort of scrying glass, which would give him insight a little ways into the future, and given that he is fond of planning ahead...
[[WMG: Teatime was actually kind to girls as a child.]]
Teatime doesn't really react to much of Susan's mind-break speech except when Susan mentions him picking on girls. (He sort of flipped out for a second there, and it probably had to do with him actually being kind to girls when he was young.)
If Teatime's eye is a magical artifact, it might actually be a sort of scrying glass, which would give him insight a little ways into the future, and given that he is fond of planning ahead...
[[WMG: Teatime was actually kind to girls as a child.]]
Teatime doesn't really react to much of Susan's mind-break speech except when Susan mentions him picking on girls. (He sort of flipped out for a second there, and it probably had to do with him actually being kind to girls when he was young.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 35 (click to see context) from:
[[WMG: The story is a {{Deconstruction}} of TheNightmareBeforeChristmas.]]
to:
[[WMG: The story is a {{Deconstruction}} of TheNightmareBeforeChristmas.WesternAnimation/TheNightmareBeforeChristmas.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[WMG: The story is a {{Deconstruction}} of TheNightmareBeforeChristmas.]]
The story begins with the scariest creatures in the universe attempting to kill Santa. Along the way, a skeleton (referred to a few times as [[FunetikAksent "skellington"]]) puts on Santa's outfit, the police are called in when Santa appears to have been replaced, people attempt to analyze items scientifically to discover the beauty in it. Children play an important role in stopping the villain and restoring Christmas, as well as providing the foundations of existence for the Boogeyman.
But Hogfather seems to take the opposite viewpoint to [=TNBfC=] - where in the latter Christmas was shown as sacrosanct and not needing any changes, in the former problems like ChristmasCreep and over-commercialization can be solved by a little Halloween thinking.
The story begins with the scariest creatures in the universe attempting to kill Santa. Along the way, a skeleton (referred to a few times as [[FunetikAksent "skellington"]]) puts on Santa's outfit, the police are called in when Santa appears to have been replaced, people attempt to analyze items scientifically to discover the beauty in it. Children play an important role in stopping the villain and restoring Christmas, as well as providing the foundations of existence for the Boogeyman.
But Hogfather seems to take the opposite viewpoint to [=TNBfC=] - where in the latter Christmas was shown as sacrosanct and not needing any changes, in the former problems like ChristmasCreep and over-commercialization can be solved by a little Halloween thinking.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 29,41 (click to see context) :
* I'd like to point out that life, generally, is not particularly expensive. After all, the Little Match Girl already had one, as does everybody else. You can hardly call it 'expensive' - especially not in Ankh-Morpork, where life is famously cheap...
* Sadly, despite the fact that the girl was left with the Watch and several Watch stories have been written since Hogfather, no further mention of the girl is made...
** This girl's name couldn't possibly be [[Discworld/MenAtArms Annabelle Curry]] would it? That would dovetail quite nicely, if true. Except Men At Arms came out 3 years before Hogfather...excepting again that many continuity errors were handwaved during [[Discworld/ThiefOfTime Thief of Time]]. So I guess that's possible, and certainly more in keeping with the spirit of the piece.
* The girl joined the Guild of Assassins, obviously.
* By that point, Death had been seen and recognized and believed in as the Hogfather by a ton of people. Given the fact that belief constitutes reality (particularly in this case, when there was a lot just floating around), he was enough like the Hogfather to give that gift to the girl without shattering the rules.
* At the time he was both Death and the Hogfather, as the Hogfather he's allowed to give gifts, and as Death he's allowed to not give any regard to socioeconomic status.
* With so much spare belief floating about, perhaps having ''Albert'' believe Death when he said that the Hogfather could give her a future was all it took to make him capable of that. Albert is a wizard, after all, and all the other wizards were creating new lares and penates, every couple of pages: his belief had to count for something, too.
* Sadly, despite the fact that the girl was left with the Watch and several Watch stories have been written since Hogfather, no further mention of the girl is made...
** This girl's name couldn't possibly be [[Discworld/MenAtArms Annabelle Curry]] would it? That would dovetail quite nicely, if true. Except Men At Arms came out 3 years before Hogfather...excepting again that many continuity errors were handwaved during [[Discworld/ThiefOfTime Thief of Time]]. So I guess that's possible, and certainly more in keeping with the spirit of the piece.
* The girl joined the Guild of Assassins, obviously.
* By that point, Death had been seen and recognized and believed in as the Hogfather by a ton of people. Given the fact that belief constitutes reality (particularly in this case, when there was a lot just floating around), he was enough like the Hogfather to give that gift to the girl without shattering the rules.
* At the time he was both Death and the Hogfather, as the Hogfather he's allowed to give gifts, and as Death he's allowed to not give any regard to socioeconomic status.
* With so much spare belief floating about, perhaps having ''Albert'' believe Death when he said that the Hogfather could give her a future was all it took to make him capable of that. Albert is a wizard, after all, and all the other wizards were creating new lares and penates, every couple of pages: his belief had to count for something, too.
