Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / TheMentalist

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Alternatively, IIRC there's a sequence of two calls. The first call, Jane gives Lisbon a general, less helpful description of the perp, which is when Lisbon tells him to call Rigsby with the information and gives him her location. Then there's a bit of time before the second call, during which the victim remembers the more specific detail about the killer; Jane calls

to:

** Alternatively, IIRC there's a sequence of two calls. The first call, Jane gives Lisbon a general, less helpful description of the perp, which is when Lisbon tells him to call Rigsby with the information and gives him her location. Then there's a bit of time before the second call, during which the victim remembers the more specific detail about the killer; Jane callscalls Lisbon back to update her on this information, at which point she realises who the killer actually is. Presumably Jane called Rigsby, updated him, and asked him to meet Lisbon (albeit not realising she was in danger) in between the two calls.

Added: 1213

Changed: 758

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In [=S01E05=] Jane calls Lisbon to tell her what the victim remembered about the killer (he never hangs up) yet, after both Lisbon and the perp shoot at each other, Lisbon asks Jane if he called Rigsby over to what he says that yes, he did, but how and when did he do that call? After all, his original call is still going (as can be corroborated because Jane didn't need to call back Lisbon when she was shot) yet Rigsby had to have received the call because he had no other way to know where Lisbon was.

to:

** Perhaps worth noting that in the episode dealing with the murder of the casino manager, we see Jane win big at poker on several occasions -- and then, aside from some splurges of generosity towards his coworkers and pocketing a handful (presumably as money to spend on essentials), he gives most of it away to people he considers deserving. It's likely he did something similar in this case.
* In [=S01E05=] Jane calls Lisbon to tell her what the victim remembered about the killer (he never hangs up) yet, after both Lisbon and the perp shoot at each other, Lisbon asks Jane if he called Rigsby over to what he says that yes, he did, but how and when did he do that call? After all, his original call is still going (as can be corroborated because Jane didn't need to call back Lisbon when she was shot) yet Rigsby had to have received the call because he had no other way to know where Lisbon was.was.
** Many cell phones have a function where you can access other functions on the phone while still making a phone call. Assuming this functionality was available on the phones used at the time, it's possible that Jane used this to keep the line open on his cellphone while simultaneously frantically texting Rigsby as fast as possible.
** Alternatively, IIRC there's a sequence of two calls. The first call, Jane gives Lisbon a general, less helpful description of the perp, which is when Lisbon tells him to call Rigsby with the information and gives him her location. Then there's a bit of time before the second call, during which the victim remembers the more specific detail about the killer; Jane calls
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** There is also the simple fact that, while Red John might indeed be insulted by Wagner and may ''want'' to kill him, he just simply might not either have the opportunity or might have bigger fish to fry. Even given the later revelations about the length of his reach, there are still ''some'' limits to what he can or can't do, at least not without risking giving himself away. It's simply possible that he just hasn't the time, chance or sufficient inclination to deal with Wagner. To quote a certain Red John disciple: you win some, you lose some.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** She has essentially been driven insane. The whole thing of insanity is that you are unable to recognise reality or understand your circumstances rationally, since if you could, you wouldn't be insane. She is trapped in the delusion that she is already dead, no doubt that if she were to piss herself or something her brain would register that not in a rational way but would merely somehow incorporate it into her delusions.
** Furthermore, being the incredibly depraved piece of work he is, it's highly likely that Red John has factored in and indeed takes sick pleasure in the fact that, being convinced she is dead to the point of almost absolute catatonia without a 'seance', Kristina is incapable of drinking, feeding herself, controlling her bowel and bladder movements or cleaning herself without assistance, since this essentially means that, without said assistance, she will eventually ''starve or dehydrate to death'', all the while living her remaining days in her own filth. It is essentially a particularly slow, cruel and sadistic way of convincing her to kill herself or forcing her to live in misery and degradation, all the while convinced she is already dead. These issues are not things that Red John has forgotten or failed to take into account, they are ''the whole point'', because he is a cruel sadist who delights in torturing others both physically and psychologically.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added example(s)


** In addition, a mere million does not a millionaire make, nor does it go as far as it used to in twenty-first century California.

to:

** In addition, a mere million does not a millionaire make, nor does it go as far as it used to in twenty-first century California.California.
* In [=S01E05=] Jane calls Lisbon to tell her what the victim remembered about the killer (he never hangs up) yet, after both Lisbon and the perp shoot at each other, Lisbon asks Jane if he called Rigsby over to what he says that yes, he did, but how and when did he do that call? After all, his original call is still going (as can be corroborated because Jane didn't need to call back Lisbon when she was shot) yet Rigsby had to have received the call because he had no other way to know where Lisbon was.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Not only that, but the CA DOJ Division of Law Enforcement really did undergo a massive restructuring in 2012 which involved a large number of agents being laid off and a lot of its law enforcement capability being eliminated.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** If we take a shipping approach, it is also heavily suggested that Lisbon has fallen in love with Jane by this point. She's become more emotionally invested in Jane himself as well as his hunt for Red John, has had longer to sympathise with his pain, and may find the idea of arresting him less easy than once she did.

to:

** If we take a shipping approach, it is also heavily suggested that Lisbon has fallen in love with Jane by this point. She's become more emotionally invested in Jane himself as well as his hunt for Red John, has had longer to sympathise with his pain, and may find the idea of arresting him the man she loves less easy than once arresting the annoying yet charming co-worker with a dark side she did.had a growing friendship with in earlier seasons.

Added: 222

Changed: 44

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Also, it's worth remembering that the lack of explanation at least is part of the point; in their final confrontation Red John offers to explain it, but Jane simply doesn't care and is willing to live with not knowing.



** If we take a shipping approach, it is also heavily suggested that Lisbon has fallen in love with Jane by this point. She's become more emotionally invested in Jane himself as well as his hunt for Red John, and may find the idea of arresting him less easy than once she did.

to:

** If we take a shipping approach, it is also heavily suggested that Lisbon has fallen in love with Jane by this point. She's become more emotionally invested in Jane himself as well as his hunt for Red John, has had longer to sympathise with his pain, and may find the idea of arresting him less easy than once she did.

Changed: 672

Removed: 672

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** There may also be an element of competition and ego involved, for want of a better way of putting it. The ones Red John kills are would-be serial killers; they're basically ripping off Red John's motif and trying to leech some of his
"cred", for want of a better way of putting it, in their own killings. Red John is an egocentric narcissist who views himself as an artist; he's insulted by what is, essentially, the serial killer equivalent of a lame tribute band trying to muscle into some of his glory and ripping off his style. He's killing them, at least partly, to send a message; ''stay off my turf and find your own style''. Wagner, on the other hand, has no intentions of being a serial killer, and is just trying to cover up what is basically a murder of opportunity. Since he clearly has no interest in 'competing' in Red John's area, there's less threat and less need to make an example of him.

to:

** There may also be an element of competition and ego involved, for want of a better way of putting it. The ones Red John kills are would-be serial killers; they're basically ripping off Red John's motif and trying to leech some of his
his "cred", for want of a better way of putting it, in their own killings. Red John is an egocentric narcissist who views himself as an artist; he's insulted by what is, essentially, the serial killer equivalent of a lame tribute band trying to muscle into some of his glory and ripping off his style. He's killing them, at least partly, to send a message; ''stay off my turf and find your own style''. Wagner, on the other hand, has no intentions of being a serial killer, and is just trying to cover up what is basically a murder of opportunity. Since he clearly has no interest in 'competing' in Red John's area, there's less threat and less need to make an example of him.

Added: 595

Changed: 238

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


"cred", for want of a better way of putting it, in their own killings. Red John is an egocentric narcissist who views himself as an artist; he's insulted by what is, essentially, the serial killer equivalent of a lame tribute band trying to muscle into some of his glory and ripping off his style. Wagner, on the other hand, has no intentions of being a serial killer, and is just trying to cover up what is basically a murder of opportunity. Since he clearly has no interest in moving into Red John's turf, there's less 'competition' there, so less of a threat.

to:

"cred", for want of a better way of putting it, in their own killings. Red John is an egocentric narcissist who views himself as an artist; he's insulted by what is, essentially, the serial killer equivalent of a lame tribute band trying to muscle into some of his glory and ripping off his style. He's killing them, at least partly, to send a message; ''stay off my turf and find your own style''. Wagner, on the other hand, has no intentions of being a serial killer, and is just trying to cover up what is basically a murder of opportunity. Since he clearly has no interest in moving into 'competing' in Red John's turf, area, there's less 'competition' there, so threat and less need to make an example of a threat.him.



** If we take a shipping approach, it is also heavily suggested that Lisbon has fallen in love with Jane by this point. She's become more emotionally invested in Jane himself as well as his hunt for Red John.

to:

** If we take a shipping approach, it is also heavily suggested that Lisbon has fallen in love with Jane by this point. She's become more emotionally invested in Jane himself as well as his hunt for Red John.John, and may find the idea of arresting him less easy than once she did.



** Based on the size of his house we can assume Jane was already a wealthy man from his days as a phony psychic. He may have already been a millionaire, so an extra million in his bank account wouldn’t make much of a difference. He only entered the game to satisfy his ego, to avoid having to spend any of his own money, and to make some hardened criminals a million dollars poorer.

to:

** Based on the size of his house we can assume Jane was already a wealthy man from his days as a phony psychic. He may have already been a millionaire, so an extra million in his bank account wouldn’t make much of a difference. He only entered the game to satisfy his ego, to avoid having to spend any of his own money, and to make some hardened criminals a million dollars poorer.poorer.
*** Adding to this, Jane seems to live quite frugally from what we see -- his home furnishings are bare-boned minimum at best, his suits are expensive but he only seems to alternate between the same handful, he rarely seems to indulge in luxuries or socialising or vacations, and so on. His bank balance has probably remained more or less stable, barring the occasional Red John splurge, so if it's already in the millions an extra million wouldn't stand out much.
** In addition, a mere million does not a millionaire make, nor does it go as far as it used to in twenty-first century California.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** If we take a shipping approach, it is also heavily suggested that Lisbon has fallen in love with Jane by this point. She's become more emotionally invested in Jane himself as well as his hunt for Red John.

Added: 799

Changed: 2

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** A catheter?

to:

** A catheter?catheter.


Added DiffLines:

** There may also be an element of competition and ego involved, for want of a better way of putting it. The ones Red John kills are would-be serial killers; they're basically ripping off Red John's motif and trying to leech some of his
"cred", for want of a better way of putting it, in their own killings. Red John is an egocentric narcissist who views himself as an artist; he's insulted by what is, essentially, the serial killer equivalent of a lame tribute band trying to muscle into some of his glory and ripping off his style. Wagner, on the other hand, has no intentions of being a serial killer, and is just trying to cover up what is basically a murder of opportunity. Since he clearly has no interest in moving into Red John's turf, there's less 'competition' there, so less of a threat.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** A catheter?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** For the record, the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Bureau_of_Investigation California Bureau of Investigation]] is a REAL law enforcement agency. Like Cho said in one episode, they’re like the FBI but more local. Their jurisdiction is theoretically anywhere in the state but they tend to stick to major crimes or crimes that occur on land owned by the state government.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In S4E1, Jane is arrested for killing Timothy Carter and his bond is set at a million dollars. He cons his way into a high-stakes poker game in jail, and wins, getting the bail money and going free, with Lisbon being told that something along the lines of never wanting to see Jane again. He saves Debbie Lupin and shows that Timothy Carter wasn't the good man the community thought him to be, and wins over the jury. Bail money would be returned to him as he made the court appearances, yet Jane being a million dollars richer is never mentioned again.

to:

* In S4E1, Jane is arrested for killing Timothy Carter and his bond is set at a million dollars. He cons his way into a high-stakes poker game in jail, and wins, getting the bail money and going free, with Lisbon being told that something along the lines of never wanting to see Jane again. He saves Debbie Lupin and shows that Timothy Carter wasn't the good man the community thought him to be, and wins over the jury. Bail money would be returned to him as he made the court appearances, yet Jane being a million dollars richer is never mentioned again.again.
** Based on the size of his house we can assume Jane was already a wealthy man from his days as a phony psychic. He may have already been a millionaire, so an extra million in his bank account wouldn’t make much of a difference. He only entered the game to satisfy his ego, to avoid having to spend any of his own money, and to make some hardened criminals a million dollars poorer.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** YMMV, but I kind of thought she was sincere. Edging into a little FridgeBrilliance, this is after the Volker case. Before that case, she'd never personally felt the kind of rage or passion that drove Jane in his hunt for Red John. But when she went up against Volker, she ''did'' feel those things -- and she would recognize that Jane would feel it to a much greater intensity, since what Volker did to her is nothing compared to what Red John did to Jane. She finally understands, on a visceral level, where Jane is coming from, and that could be enough for her to decide to let him do it.

to:

** YMMV, but I kind of thought she was sincere. Edging into a little FridgeBrilliance, this is after the Volker case. Before that case, she'd never personally felt the kind of rage or passion that drove Jane in his hunt for Red John. But when she went up against Volker, she ''did'' feel those things -- and she would recognize that Jane would feel it to a much greater intensity, since what Volker did to her is nothing compared to what Red John did to Jane. She finally understands, on a visceral level, where Jane is coming from, and that could be enough for her to decide to let him do it.it.
* In S4E1, Jane is arrested for killing Timothy Carter and his bond is set at a million dollars. He cons his way into a high-stakes poker game in jail, and wins, getting the bail money and going free, with Lisbon being told that something along the lines of never wanting to see Jane again. He saves Debbie Lupin and shows that Timothy Carter wasn't the good man the community thought him to be, and wins over the jury. Bail money would be returned to him as he made the court appearances, yet Jane being a million dollars richer is never mentioned again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** YMMV, but I kind of thought she was sincere. Edging into a little FridgeBrilliance, this is after the Volker case. Before that case, she'd never personally felt the kind of rage or passion that drove Jane in his hunt for Red John. But when she went up against Volker, she ''did'' feel those things -- and she would recognize that what Volker did to her is nothing compared to what Red John did to Jane. She finally understands, on a visceral level, where Jane is coming from, and that could be enough for her to decide to let him do it.

to:

** YMMV, but I kind of thought she was sincere. Edging into a little FridgeBrilliance, this is after the Volker case. Before that case, she'd never personally felt the kind of rage or passion that drove Jane in his hunt for Red John. But when she went up against Volker, she ''did'' feel those things -- and she would recognize that Jane would feel it to a much greater intensity, since what Volker did to her is nothing compared to what Red John did to Jane. She finally understands, on a visceral level, where Jane is coming from, and that could be enough for her to decide to let him do it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** YMMV, but I kind of thought she was sincere. Edging into a little FridgeBrilliance, this is after the Volker case. Until then, she'd never personally felt the kind of rage or passion that drove Jane in his hunt for Red John. When she did, and when she realized that Jane probably felt those same emotions but at several times the intensity, she finally understood, on a visceral level, where he was coming from.

to:

** YMMV, but I kind of thought she was sincere. Edging into a little FridgeBrilliance, this is after the Volker case. Until then, Before that case, she'd never personally felt the kind of rage or passion that drove Jane in his hunt for Red John. When she did, and But when she realized that Jane probably felt went up against Volker, she ''did'' feel those same emotions but at several times the intensity, things -- and she would recognize that what Volker did to her is nothing compared to what Red John did to Jane. She finally understood, understands, on a visceral level, where he was Jane is coming from.from, and that could be enough for her to decide to let him do it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Consider also that by the time Lorelei is killed, Jane has already created a preliminary list and is in the process of whittling it down. If Red John was able to get a look at the preliminary list (which, with his network, isn't impossible), then all he has to do is follow the same process of elimination Jane ultimately does, and he'll get the same result.

to:

** Consider also that by the time Lorelei is killed, Jane has already created a preliminary list and is in the process of whittling it down. If Red John was able to get a look at some version of the preliminary list (which, with his network, isn't impossible), then all he has to do is follow the same process of elimination Jane ultimately does, and he'll get the same result.

Added: 361

Changed: 64

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Well, Jane had to have followed some kind of specific method (or series of methods) to get that list in the first place. Maybe Red John knew him well enough to understand how Jane would do it and then used the same techniques (potentially making use of his network to get the information) to predict what Jane's list would be.

to:

** Well, Jane had to have followed some kind of specific method (or series of methods) to get that list in the first place. Maybe Red John knew him well enough to understand how Jane would do it and then used the same techniques (potentially making use of his network to get the information) to predict what Jane's list would be. be.
** Consider also that by the time Lorelei is killed, Jane has already created a preliminary list and is in the process of whittling it down. If Red John was able to get a look at the preliminary list (which, with his network, isn't impossible), then all he has to do is follow the same process of elimination Jane ultimately does, and he'll get the same result.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Well, Jane had to have followed some kind of specific method (or series of methods) to get that list in the first place. Maybe Red John knew him well enough to understand how Jane would do it and then used the same techniques to predict what Jane's list would be.

to:

** Well, Jane had to have followed some kind of specific method (or series of methods) to get that list in the first place. Maybe Red John knew him well enough to understand how Jane would do it and then used the same techniques (potentially making use of his network to get the information) to predict what Jane's list would be.

Added: 351

Changed: 26

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The other difference is that Wagner's imitating Red John was an afterthought to cover up his own crimes, while the kids were specifically doing it in homage to him. It's not out of the question that he would take the latter more personally because they're essentially doing it ''at'' him, while Wagner's actions ultimately weren't really about him.



* In earlier episodes Lisbon tells Jane that if he kills Red John she will arrest him, because she can´t let that happen. In [=S06E06=] (“Fire and Brimstone”) she speaks with Jane and tells him, that she changed her mind and she has no problem if Red John gets murdered by Jane (''“What I'm saying is some men – men like Red John – they don't deserve a trial. They don't deserve a jury. They deserve what they have coming to them.”''). Jane doesn't really believe her and thinks that Lisbon only pretends to change her mind. I always wondered if Lisbon was serious about her change of mind, or if she was just faking it.
** YMMV, but I kind of thought she was sincere. Edging into a little FridgeBrilliance, this is after the Volker case. Until then, she'd never personally felt the kind of rage or passion that drove Jane in his hunt for Red John. When she did, and when she realized that Jane probably felt it even more intensely, she finally understood, on a visceral level, where he was coming from.

to:

* In earlier episodes Lisbon tells Jane that if he kills Red John she will arrest him, because she can´t can't let that happen. In [=S06E06=] (“Fire and Brimstone”) she speaks with Jane and tells him, that she changed her mind and she has no problem if Red John gets murdered by Jane (''“What Jane. (“What I'm saying is some men – men like Red John – they don't deserve a trial. They don't deserve a jury. They deserve what they have coming to them.”''). ”) Jane doesn't really believe her and thinks that Lisbon only pretends to change her mind. I always wondered if Lisbon was serious about her change of mind, or if she was just faking it.
** YMMV, but I kind of thought she was sincere. Edging into a little FridgeBrilliance, this is after the Volker case. Until then, she'd never personally felt the kind of rage or passion that drove Jane in his hunt for Red John. When she did, and when she realized that Jane probably felt it even more intensely, those same emotions but at several times the intensity, she finally understood, on a visceral level, where he was coming from.

Added: 1002

Changed: 649

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In earlier episodes Lisbon tells Jane that if he kills Red John she will arrest him, because she can´t let that happen. In S06E06 (“Fire and Brimstone”) she speaks with Jane and tells him, that she changed her mind and she has no problem if Red John gets murdered by Jane (''“What I´m saying is some men – men like Red John – they don´t deserve a trial. They don´t deserve a jury. They deserve what they have coming to them.”''). Jane doesn´t really believe her and thinks that Lisbon only pretends to change her mind. I always wondered if Lisbon was serious about her change of mind, or if she was just faking it.

to:

** Well, Jane had to have followed some kind of specific method (or series of methods) to get that list in the first place. Maybe Red John knew him well enough to understand how Jane would do it and then used the same techniques to predict what Jane's list would be.
* In earlier episodes Lisbon tells Jane that if he kills Red John she will arrest him, because she can´t let that happen. In S06E06 [=S06E06=] (“Fire and Brimstone”) she speaks with Jane and tells him, that she changed her mind and she has no problem if Red John gets murdered by Jane (''“What I´m I'm saying is some men – men like Red John – they don´t don't deserve a trial. They don´t don't deserve a jury. They deserve what they have coming to them.”''). Jane doesn´t doesn't really believe her and thinks that Lisbon only pretends to change her mind. I always wondered if Lisbon was serious about her change of mind, or if she was just faking it.it.
** YMMV, but I kind of thought she was sincere. Edging into a little FridgeBrilliance, this is after the Volker case. Until then, she'd never personally felt the kind of rage or passion that drove Jane in his hunt for Red John. When she did, and when she realized that Jane probably felt it even more intensely, she finally understood, on a visceral level, where he was coming from.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In earlier episodes Lisbon tells Jane that if he kills Red John she will arrest him, because she can´t let that happen. In a much later episode she speaks with Jane and tells him, that she changed her mind and she has no problem if Red John gets murdered by Jane, and Red John doesn´t deserve to get a trial, or something like that. I don´t know the episode and her exact words, but she said she changed her mind. Jane doesn´t really believe her and thinks that Lisbon only pretends to change her mind. I always wondered if Lisbon was serious about her change of mind, or if she was just faking it.

to:

* In earlier episodes Lisbon tells Jane that if he kills Red John she will arrest him, because she can´t let that happen. In a much later episode S06E06 (“Fire and Brimstone”) she speaks with Jane and tells him, that she changed her mind and she has no problem if Red John gets murdered by Jane, and Jane (''“What I´m saying is some men – men like Red John doesn´t deserve to get a trial, or something like that. I – they don´t know the episode and her exact words, but she said she changed her mind.deserve a trial. They don´t deserve a jury. They deserve what they have coming to them.”''). Jane doesn´t really believe her and thinks that Lisbon only pretends to change her mind. I always wondered if Lisbon was serious about her change of mind, or if she was just faking it.

Top