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** That is why the only paradox that seems to end the story is the one which denies Homunculus's existence. (The EX endings). Without Djinn magic, paradoxes can no longer be maintained. Everything is set back to normal. To a degree. It doesn't show the two daughters being switched back but it does show the normal descendants of Hugo and Wagner living like everyone else in the present. It is no small wonder why we didn't see their dopplegangers in every other age like we did with the other townsfolk during the playthroughs.

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** That is why the only paradox that seems to end the story is the one which denies Homunculus's existence. (The EX endings). Without Djinn magic, paradoxes can no longer be maintained. Everything is set back to normal. To a degree. It doesn't show the two daughters being switched back but it does show the normal descendants of Hugo and Wagner living like everyone else in the present. It is no small wonder why we didn't see their dopplegangers in every other age like we did with the other townsfolk during the playthroughs.playthroughs.
*Putting aside for a second that Eike is actually Margaret's father and not her descendant, how in the hell does switching the babies protect his existence at all? The baby didn't give birth a decedent before being switched, taking the baby supposed to be his ancestor to the present would have wiped him from existence long before Hugo threatened to do the same thing.
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<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
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***** Still a translation problem. Regardless of the voice acting (it was probably more cost-effective to just use the same voice acting than to redo it ), the original writer is Japanese and would write with Japanese conventions and normal Japanese dialogue. The dialogue is obviously awkward in a number of places because they've translated it and left those same conversations. (This Troper also owns all of the games, but knows how the industry translates.)



** That is why the only paradox that seems to end the story is the one which denies Homunculus's existence. (The EX endings). Without Djinn magic, paradoxes can no longer be maintained. Everything is set back to normal. To a degree. It doesn't show the two daughters being switched back but it does show the normal descendants of Hugo and Wagner living like everyone else in the present. It is no small wonder why we didn't see their dopplegangers in every other age like we did with the other townsfolk during the playthroughs.

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** That is why the only paradox that seems to end the story is the one which denies Homunculus's existence. (The EX endings). Without Djinn magic, paradoxes can no longer be maintained. Everything is set back to normal. To a degree. It doesn't show the two daughters being switched back but it does show the normal descendants of Hugo and Wagner living like everyone else in the present. It is no small wonder why we didn't see their dopplegangers in every other age like we did with the other townsfolk during the playthroughs.
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***** Remember that Homunculus can time travel. I believe that the Homunculus Eike meets each time he dies is the one trapped in the stone, while the one he encounters in the real world is a different one, possibly from the aftermath of Ending E, which is itself the aftermath of the game's events.
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*** Wagner started it, though. He could have tried not making a wish. Instead, he struck a deal-his soul for eternal youth,-then tried to go back on that. In the process, he rips off and imprisons Homunculus. Also, you're twisting a lot of what happens. Dana made the choice to return to the present. There was no reason for him to offer to take her to the past. Margarete, on the other hand, had made no such choice. As for Hugo, he did want to kill Homunculus. Homunculus is no saint, but he's not the worst person in the world. It may be for his own reasons, but he does save baby Dana, offers to get Margarete back to her perceived home, and doesn't simply kill Eike for kicks once everything is said and done.
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****** It's generally assumed that what Homunculus did to Eike causes him to constantly lose memories, thus why he forget that he owns the red stone at the beginning of the game. Also, Eike is Wagner in ALL the timelines.


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***** Eike is always Wagner. Homunculus likely switches the babies as a way to get Eile back to the Middle Ages. His ultimate goal is for Eike to give the stone to Wagner. Eike only gains access to that distant time period because the real Margarete, who belongs in that time and is his daughter, is in the vicinity when he gets killed.
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******** Originally, Wagner wished for eternal youth, then betrayed and sealed Homunculus. Centuries pass, and Eike ultimately gives that same stone to Wagner. The Homunculus he summons that time is the same one he betrayed. He jumps out of the pentagrams reach and gets revenge on Wagner as well. As for why Homunculis didn't recognize Eike, I can only guess he pretended not to in order to avoid being questioned about it later.
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* I think what some people may be missing is that Homunculus is a Djin, a godlike creature. While it's never explicitly stated, I think Homunculus' existence is constant in every timeline/universe (much like how the Elder God in LegacyOfKain knows what's going on even when encountered centuries before he meets Raziel). So even if in the ''D'' timeline Wagner resealed him, Homunculus still exists in a freed state in another. It's probable that he was merely trying to prevent an abosolute termination of his existence. The EX ending has him either never being freed because Wagner used the stone and thus never sought to create human life with it, or is used by Eike to wipe him from existence via a paradox (which Homunculus explained totally removes the person in question from existence entirely). While this still raises some questions (how come Hugo's paradox in the one ending didn't just reset events to start, and so on), but it does at least give a possible reasoning for every ending to have some connection (but not be linked, as I stand by the idea that each is an independent result in seperate timelines). Two other theories I have had have been that when Wagner sealed Homunculus, the spell backfired and seperated the stone from Homunculus (which is why he's weakened and slightly confused when Eike stumbles upon him in the past). Or, he never did get resealed, he teleported, and the stone is always seperated him from (kind of like the gem that houses the Djin from Wishmaster, they're connected, but seperate at the same time).

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* I think what some people may be missing is that Homunculus is a Djin, a godlike creature. While it's never explicitly stated, I think Homunculus' existence is constant in every timeline/universe (much like how the Elder God in LegacyOfKain ''VideoGame/LegacyOfKain'' knows what's going on even when encountered centuries before he meets Raziel). So even if in the ''D'' timeline Wagner resealed him, Homunculus still exists in a freed state in another. It's probable that he was merely trying to prevent an abosolute termination of his existence. The EX ending has him either never being freed because Wagner used the stone and thus never sought to create human life with it, or is used by Eike to wipe him from existence via a paradox (which Homunculus explained totally removes the person in question from existence entirely). While this still raises some questions (how come Hugo's paradox in the one ending didn't just reset events to start, and so on), but it does at least give a possible reasoning for every ending to have some connection (but not be linked, as I stand by the idea that each is an independent result in seperate timelines). Two other theories I have had have been that when Wagner sealed Homunculus, the spell backfired and seperated the stone from Homunculus (which is why he's weakened and slightly confused when Eike stumbles upon him in the past). Or, he never did get resealed, he teleported, and the stone is always seperated him from (kind of like the gem that houses the Djin from Wishmaster, they're connected, but seperate at the same time).
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* It is never implied that Eike could be either a descendent or Wagner. It affirms several times that he is Wagner. Even if we are traveling through different timelines there are several constants. So if Margarete is most assuredly not his ancestor, why does Homunculus expend so much energy switching her with Dana?

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* ** It is never implied that Eike could be either a descendent or Wagner. It affirms several times that he is Wagner. Even if we are traveling through different timelines there are several constants. So if Margarete is most assuredly not his ancestor, why does Homunculus expend so much energy switching her with Dana?
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* It is never implied that Eike could be either a descendent or Wagner. This is impossible, even if we are traveling through different timelines. There are several constants. So if Margarete is most assuredly not his ancestor, why does Homunculus expend so much energy switching her with Dana?

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* It is never implied that Eike could be either a descendent or Wagner. This It affirms several times that he is impossible, even Wagner. Even if we are traveling through different timelines. There timelines there are several constants. So if Margarete is most assuredly not his ancestor, why does Homunculus expend so much energy switching her with Dana?
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******* So what really happened? A combination of the two? I figured he lied to keep Eike in the dark forever about who he is, because incest (this was ending E) is hillarious to Djinns.
**** He is probably just confused that the man he just sent away showed up in a different outfit, accent, and personality and is all, "Hey Homunuculus, what's up?" He probably recognized him yet was confused by how different he suddenly was, and he was just struck a mortal blow and probably confused in many respects. The point of the scene is to let the player know this is an earlier Homunuclus than the one we know.

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* It is never implied that Eike could be either a descendent or Wagner. This is impossible, even if we are traveling through different timelines. There are several constants. So if Margarete is most assuredly not his ancestor, why does Homunculus expend so much energy switching her with Dana?
** 1. Well to take advantage of time's "homing instinct" as he calls it. He knows time will try to sort them out, and indeed Dana does get sent to the past with Eike, drawn to him with the stone. This is the only way Homunculus can get the stone to Wagner/Eike without contacting it directly. Furthermore this homing instinct also draws Margarete to Eike, leading him to the Alchemist.
** 2. Perhaps Mrs. Wagner and Hugo should have been able to recognize Eike. But at least switching one of his kids does more to conceal Eike's identity from himself.
** 3. Merely to reassure Eike. At any cost, he cannot have Eike chicken out at the last minute, so he does this merely as a reassurance to Eike. He also misled Eike as to who his ancestor was so that his real ancestors would never be in danger.
** 4. He's a total jerk! He gets pleasure out of causing Wagner pain, even if Eike is not able to understand why this is so personal. Look how delighted he is in any ending where Wagner/Eike accidentally kills his own son. He is sadistic. He is also positively delighted when Eike brings Dana back to the present, the only ending he doesn't politely remind Eike to return his guest to the past, knowing she doesn't really belong there and that they may commit incest together. He is proven to be dishonest and cruel.



* It is never implied that Eike could be either a descendent or Wagner. This is impossible, even if we are traveling through different timelines. There are several constants. So if Margarete is most assuredly not his ancestor, why does Homunculus expend so much energy switching her with Dana?
** 1. Well to take advantage of time's "homing instinct" as he calls it. He knows time will try to sort them out, and indeed Dana does get sent to the past with Eike, drawn to him with the stone. This is the only way Homunculus can get the stone to Wagner/Eike without contacting it directly. Furthermore this homing instinct also draws Margarete to Eike, leading him to the Alchemist.
** 2. Perhaps Mrs. Wagner and Hugo should have been able to recognize Eike. But at least switching one of his kids does more to conceal Eike's identity from himself.
** 3. Merely to reassure Eike. At any cost, he cannot have Eike chicken out at the last minute, so he does this merely as a reassurance to Eike. He also misled Eike as to who his ancestor was so that his real ancestors would never be in danger.
** 4. He's a total jerk! He gets pleasure out of causing Wagner pain, even if Eike is not able to understand why this is so personal. Look how delighted he is in any ending where Wagner/Eike accidentally kills his own son. He is sadistic. He is also positively delighted when Eike brings Dana back to the present, the only ending he doesn't politely remind Eike to return his guest to the past, knowing she doesn't really belong there and that they may commit incest together. He is proven to be dishonest and cruel.

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** 1. Well to take advantage of time's "homing instinct" as he calls it. He knows time will try to sort them out, and indeed Dana does get sent to the past with Eike, drawn to him with the stone. This is the only way Homunculus can get the stone to Wagner/Eike without contacting it directly.
** 2. Merely to reassure Eike. At any cost, he cannot have Eike chicken out at the last minute, so he does this merely as a reassurance to Eike. He also misled Eike as to who his ancestor was so that his real ancestors would never be in danger.
** 3. He's a total jerk! He gets pleasure out of causing Wagner pain, even if Eike is not able to understand why this is so personal. Look how delighted he is in any ending where Wagner/Eike accidentally kills his own son. He is sadistic. He is also positively delighted when Eike brings Dana back to the present, the only ending he doesn't politely remind Eike to return his guest to the past, knowing she doesn't really belong there and that they may commit incest together. He is proven to be dishonest and cruel.

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** 1. Well to take advantage of time's "homing instinct" as he calls it. He knows time will try to sort them out, and indeed Dana does get sent to the past with Eike, drawn to him with the stone. This is the only way Homunculus can get the stone to Wagner/Eike without contacting it directly.
directly. Furthermore this homing instinct also draws Margarete to Eike, leading him to the Alchemist.
** 2. Perhaps Mrs. Wagner and Hugo should have been able to recognize Eike. But at least switching one of his kids does more to conceal Eike's identity from himself.
** 3.
Merely to reassure Eike. At any cost, he cannot have Eike chicken out at the last minute, so he does this merely as a reassurance to Eike. He also misled Eike as to who his ancestor was so that his real ancestors would never be in danger.
** 3.** 4. He's a total jerk! He gets pleasure out of causing Wagner pain, even if Eike is not able to understand why this is so personal. Look how delighted he is in any ending where Wagner/Eike accidentally kills his own son. He is sadistic. He is also positively delighted when Eike brings Dana back to the present, the only ending he doesn't politely remind Eike to return his guest to the past, knowing she doesn't really belong there and that they may commit incest together. He is proven to be dishonest and cruel.
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* So where did the red stone come from? Dana found in in the bar and gave it to Eike. Eike gave it to Wagner. Wagner unsealed Homunculus and then, in one timeline it vanishes, in another Wagner picks it up and wanders the world as Eike. So how did it get to the cafe or into Eike's possession? If it got there from Wagner's wandering that means the red stone is stuck in a infinite loop being passed from Wagner to Eike to Dana to Eike to Wagner, wihch means Homunculus' entire existence is basically being sealed and unsealed despite the fact that he acts like he has a past before meeting Wagner. So how the hell did the stone get to that bar? Seems kind of important. The philosophers stone that causes all this.

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* So where did the red stone come from? Dana found in in the bar and gave it to Eike. Eike gave it to Wagner. Wagner unsealed Homunculus and then, in one timeline it vanishes, in another Wagner picks it up and wanders the world as Eike. So how did it get to the cafe or into Eike's possession? If it got there from Wagner's wandering that means the red stone is stuck in a infinite loop being passed from Wagner to Eike to Dana to Eike to Wagner, wihch means Homunculus' entire existence is basically being sealed and unsealed despite the fact that he acts like he has a past before meeting Wagner. So how the hell did the stone get to that bar? Seems kind of important. The philosophers stone that causes all this.this.
* How do all the Paradoxes exist?
**Within the game, just about any action in the past would have cancelled out the whole story. The digipad seems to be able to allow paradoxes that are a result of its user's dabblings. The digipad also seems very connected to the very essence of the Djinn. This is evidenced by his desperation to grab it in ending A and how easily it destroys him, though I am unclear whether it actually hits him or causes a mutual destruction. Either way, his ability to travel through time and the digipads work very similarly. And if he can travel without it, what is the digipad to him, then? If a Djinn can grant wishes, than a machine linked to him should be able to handle or allow the resulting paradoxes.
**That is why the only paradox that seems to end the story is the one which denies Homunculus's existence. (The EX endings). Without Djinn magic, paradoxes can no longer be maintained. Everything is set back to normal. To a degree. It doesn't show the two daughters being switched back but it does show the normal descendants of Hugo and Wagner living like everyone else in the present. It is no small wonder why we didn't see their dopplegangers in every other age like we did with the other townsfolk during the playthroughs.
*It is never implied that Eike could be either a descendent or Wagner. This is impossible, even if we are traveling through different timelines. There are several constants. So if Margarete is most assuredly not his ancestor, why does Homunculus expend so much energy switching her with Dana?
**1. Well to take advantage of time's "homing instinct" as he calls it. He knows time will try to sort them out, and indeed Dana does get sent to the past with Eike, drawn to him with the stone. This is the only way Homunculus can get the stone to Wagner/Eike without contacting it directly.
**2. Merely to reassure Eike. At any cost, he cannot have Eike chicken out at the last minute, so he does this merely as a reassurance to Eike. He also misled Eike as to who his ancestor was so that his real ancestors would never be in danger.
**3. He's a total jerk! He gets pleasure out of causing Wagner pain, even if Eike is not able to understand why this is so personal. Look how delighted he is in any ending where Wagner/Eike accidentally kills his own son. He is sadistic. He is also positively delighted when Eike brings Dana back to the present, the only ending he doesn't politely remind Eike to return his guest to the past, knowing she doesn't really belong there and that they may commit incest together. He is proven to be dishonest and cruel.
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* Why does Hugo think leaving Eike's ancestor behind in the present day is a threat to him? Did he forget that Eike also has a time machine and could easily just take her back?

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* Why does Hugo think leaving Eike's ancestor behind in the present day is a threat to him? Did he forget that Eike also has a time machine and could easily just take her back?back?
* So where did the red stone come from? Dana found in in the bar and gave it to Eike. Eike gave it to Wagner. Wagner unsealed Homunculus and then, in one timeline it vanishes, in another Wagner picks it up and wanders the world as Eike. So how did it get to the cafe or into Eike's possession? If it got there from Wagner's wandering that means the red stone is stuck in a infinite loop being passed from Wagner to Eike to Dana to Eike to Wagner, wihch means Homunculus' entire existence is basically being sealed and unsealed despite the fact that he acts like he has a past before meeting Wagner. So how the hell did the stone get to that bar? Seems kind of important. The philosophers stone that causes all this.
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* How in the flying blue hell did Hugo get a time machine? I know he says that his future self brought it to him, but even WITH that knowledge and the {{Stable Time Loop}} that would create, but if Eike manages to stop him, doesn't that make the entire game never happen? And that would mean that Eike would never meet Homunculus, meaning he would never be able to travel through time to accidentally create him, and THAT means [[MindScrew oh dear, I've gone cross-eyed]].

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* How in the flying blue hell did Hugo get a time machine? I know he says that his future self brought it to him, but even WITH that knowledge and the {{Stable Time Loop}} that would create, but if Eike manages to stop him, doesn't that make the entire game never happen? And that would mean that Eike would never meet Homunculus, meaning he would never be able to travel through time to accidentally create him, and THAT means [[MindScrew oh dear, I've gone cross-eyed]].cross-eyed]].
* Why does Hugo think leaving Eike's ancestor behind in the present day is a threat to him? Did he forget that Eike also has a time machine and could easily just take her back?
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<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
<<|ItJustBugsMe|>>
* How in the flying blue hell did Hugo get a time machine? I know he says that his future self brought it to him, but even WITH that knowledge and the {{Stable Time Loop}} that would create, but if Eike manages to stop him, doesn't that make the entire game never happen? And that would mean that Eike would never meet Homunculus, meaning he would never be able to travel through time to accidentally create him, and THAT means [[MindScrew oh dear, I've gone cross-eyed]].
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* Any and all talk of "ABC" and "DE" timelines on this page makes no sense to this particular troper, especially the thought that Eike is Dr. Wagner's descendant in the "ABC timeline". Two conflicting points exist on this supposed timeline, both stated by [[UnreliableNarrator Homunculus]]. First, he switched Dana and Margarete in case Hugo tried to play the stranded-ancestor card; second, Dr. Wagner's spirit can't be summoned because he isn't dead yet... in 2001. Of course, it's entirely possible that both are true and Dr. Wagner is wandering the world still as Eike's [[IdenticalGrandson identical ancestor]], but that entirely eradicates the very plausible theory that Homunculus is able to bring Eike back to life in certain situations because Dr. Wagner traded his soul for youth (though it is just a theory). It's also possible that even Homunculus isn't sure if Eike is Dr. Wagner or a remarkably similar descendant, which would also make both statements make sense. Not to mention the EX Endings...
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* I think what some people may be missing is that Homunculus is a Djin, a godlike creature. While it's never explicitly stated, I think Homunculus' existence is constant in every timeline/universe (much like how the Elder God in LegacyOfKain knows what's going on even when encountered centuries before he meets Raziel). So even if in the ''D'' timeline Wagner resealed him, Homunculus still exists in a freed state in another. It's probable that he was merely trying to prevent an abosolute termination of his existence. The EX ending has him either never being freed because Wagner used the stone and thus never sought to create human life with it, or is used by Eike to wipe him from existence via a paradox (which Homunculus explained totally removes the person in question from existence entirely). While this still raises some questions (how come Hugo's paradox in the one ending didn't just reset events to start, and so on), but it does at least give a possible reasoning for every ending to have some connection (but not be linked, as I stand by the idea that each is an independent result in seperate timelines). Two other theories I have had have been that when Wagner sealed Homunculus, the spell backfired and seperated the stone from Homunculus (which is why he's weakened and slightly confused when Eike stumbles upon him in the past). Or, he never did get resealed, he teleported, and the stone is always seperated him from (kind of like the gem that houses the Djin from Wishmaster, they're connected, but seperate at the same time).
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** Unless confirmed by WordOfGod, there's nothing to say certain timelines are exclusive to each other. Sure, it would help simplify things, but as it stands, each ending is a possible outcome playing out in seperate timelines. For one, how would saying "You're my descendent" affect things that largely? It couldn't. Odds are, Homunculus has been manipulating time to ensure that Wagner wouldn't wise up enough and try to stop him. But somehow this causes the timeline in which the EX ending occurs, this Eike is a Wagner who managed to regain his memories somehow or at least become aware of the Homunculus' deceit and decides to end it all. This would explain why a man who would have to have existed in some previous form to be erased from time when killed the evil God like Djin.

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