Headscratchers / Riverdale

Headscratchers pages are Spoilers Off. You Have Been Warned!

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New entries on the bottom.

Going to Thornhill

• Thornhill, the Blossom family home, is a creepy old mansion and Jughead's narration explicitly states that none of the kids want to go there. Why do so many of the students go there for Cheryl's house party in episode 1? And, for that matter, how on earth did she convince her ultra-controlling parents to let her hold it?
  • At that point, everyone including the Blossoms themselves thought that Jason had drowned in an accident and didn't know that he and Cheryl had set up a plan. I'd imagine that everyone went to the party out of pity, and even her parents would allow it since they thought Cheryl was just as shocked with Jason's death as they were.

Going to the police

• It's perfectly understandable that Archie and Grundy don't want to go to the police and say, "Hey, the day Jason disappeared, we were making out by the river and heard a gunshot." What's not understandable is why one of them couldn't go to the police and say, "Hey, the day Jason disappeared, I was all alone by the river and heard a gunshot."
  • Archie clearly very much does want to go to the police. Its Grundy whose pressuring him not to. Considering she's involved in an illegal affair with a minor, has stolen another woman's identity, and is implied to be a serial abuser, it makes sense she doesn't want to be on the police's radar.

Hal and Polly/Jason

• Why didn't Hal just tell Polly that Jason was her cousin when they started dating? It makes sense that he wouldn't want to admit it, but if he'd just told her early on, he could've avoided the very thing he was worried about — incestuous pregnancy.
  • Hindsight is 20/20 - Hal was probably embarrassed/bitter enough about it originally that he convinced himself in his mind that he'd been be able to break the two up and keep the Blossom-Cooper connection under wraps. Remember, manipulating information to control their kids is, like, the Cooper parents' MO. I doubt he thought the Jason-Polly thing would ever escalate to where it did, not if he and Alice were set on getting Polly to leave him. Besides, Riverdale is a small, gossipy town, so (even if the fear was unrealistic) he might've feared that the info would somehow get around to the rest of the town and become a further scandal.

Jughead’s use of pay phones

• Why is Jughead constantly using pay phones? It seems kind of weird if we've already been shown he has a phone and a charger with him.
  • Justifiable. He may not have enough money to sustain a payment plan, or to order credits on regular basis. Thus, he may be using his phone for other purposes and/or just accepts incoming calls. Pay-phones are more reliable method of communication for him since he’d need only a few quarters. Since Jughead has little spendable income, he has to get creative.

Why is Alice considered "Rescued from the Scrappyheap"?

• Why does she get that treatment in the YMMV page? She has done almost nothing to redeem herself at all, she's still pretty much the same character from the start of the show, even using her daughter and her friends to break the law on her behalf. Should that entry be deleted?
  • No, because it is under "Your Mileage May Vary" for a reason - not everyone will feel that way. Some fans think she has taken a level in kindness and that her backstory explains her actions, and others thing that she's still as shallow and unsympathetic as ever.
  • She's not a Scrappy anymore because not everyone hates her now. After she kicked Hal out of the house, she became a comparatively better character - she's still doing bad stuff, but she's no longer a bitch to everyone. She wanted Polly back and seems to want the best for her, and she's treating Betty a lot better than before.

Whereabouts of Rose Blossom

• In Episode 13, Cheryl and Penelope were standing outside as Thornhill burned down, but there was no sign of Rose Blossom, aka Nana Blossom. In fact, she was not seen since Polly’s baby-shower in Episode 8.
  • She might be living in a retirement home, or somewhere similar, and was just visiting for Jason’s funeral. Still, a clarification of her whereabouts would be nice.
  • In season 2 it was mentioned that she lives in the conservatory most of the time, so she wasn't actually in the house when it burned down.

Leaving Cheryl alone

• After saving Cheryl for her attempt to commit suicide, the group later decides to leave her all alone, and go to the Jubilee. Worse, Veronica and Archie know at least a little about how awful Cheryl's mother is to her. What the hell? ^note  Riverdaaaale
  • On Betty and Jughead's end, it might have been a breakdown in communication; Veronica took her back to the Lodge residence, they figured "Ron's taking care of her", and wouldn't have known she was left by herself until after the end of the event (though this explanation might fall apart if it's not referenced in Season 2). On Veronica's end, she's used to taking charge of things and she's the one Cheryl kept reaching out to; I bet it just didn't occur to her in the heat of everything that Hermione was not going to be as kind to Cheryl as she had been to Betty and Polly when they needed somewhere to stay. After that... it's stupid no matter how you look at it, yes, but I can somewhat see the thought process. Veronica knows Cheryl is incredibly proud; they had all just seen her in her worst moment, Cheryl was finally starting to have a chance at properly opening up to someone... and then Hermione tramples upon that, making the one hope Cheryl might've had feel completely unrealistic, and brusquely reinforcing the idea that, like it or not, she will always be tied to and punished for her Blossom name. Cheryl's "I'll just warm up and go home" wasn't just her acquiescing to the awkward tension in the room, and it was a lot more than feeling unwanted. That moment again crystallized for her that Veronica couldn't help her; she'd revealed her vulnerabilities for nothing, and Cheryl is in a position where, needing to pretty much take care of herself by herself now, she doesn't feel she can afford to do that. She may not have been comfortable with Veronica after that, and while that doesn't excuse Veronica just throwing her hands up and leaving her alone, I can understand how Veronica might've gotten the wrong idea about how best to handle the situation. With that in mind, she could rationalize away to herself that it would be okay to go to the Jubilee and let Cheryl's mother deal with her (because Ron knows her mom sucks, but not the extent) - wrongfully, and I fully hope that this is addressed later, but that could be the reason it happened.

Betty's Locker Vandalism

• No, seriously. Where did they get pig's blood? And for that matter, how did nobody notice the undoubtedly lengthy process of pasting all those articles to the locker, hanging the doll, and legibly (if not neatly) writing "GO TO HELL SERPENT SLUT" in said blood?
  • They might have made it all beforehand and attached it to the locker in one piece, which wouldn't take very long. Not sure about the pig's blood though - you can buy anything online?
    • Go to the butcher and ask for it just after they cut up the pig. The handwriting would have to be someone that has nice enough handwriting.

Not Finalizing the Divorce

• Why did Fred not finalize the divorce with Mary? They give some implication that it involved Archie drunk dialing him and asking him not to, but there's no way that was the first time Archie asked them not to get divorced, and even if it was, no way would that be enough of a reason not to do it. It just gets brushed aside in favor of Fred randomly bringing Mary home for a visit.
  • It’s possible it had absolutely nothing to do with Archie’s call. Fred and Mary clearly still get along great, and they’ve known each other at least since their teens, they still have a very deep bond and it’s entirely possible that even if their relationship is over, neither of them are ready yet to accept that it is. Plus Fred had just broken it off with Hermione, perhaps he managed to find some comfort in someone he still loved but simply couldn’t figure out how to live with.
  • As far as this not being the first time Archie asked them not to divorce, the circumstances are a bit different this time. If she's in contact with Fred at all (which is probable, as far as information about their kid goes, even if they "need lawyers in the room" as Archie puts it for any other communication - though even that level of animosity appears to have been exaggerated a bit), Mary has to know by now that one of her son's football teammates was just murdered; that his friends are all embroiling themselves in the mystery that could easily lead to another death; that he was in an illicit relationship with his teacher that falls squarely in the territory of sexual predation, statutory rape, and emotional manipulation/abuse; that Riverdale as a whole is getting more and more dangerous. As much as we mock Archie for his issues seeming trivial compared to how much the other characters are dealing with, he's still in a shitty enough state that I can see the Andrew parents wanting to at least try to throw him a temporary bone.

The Trouble with Betty

• I'm currently watching episode two, and I am so confused about the whole Veronica/Archie deal at Cheryl's party. First of all, how in the world did Cheryl know the bottle was going to land on Veronica- which is clearly what she is intended? Second, and most importantly, what the hell is with Archie, Veronica, and Betty acting as though this were some betrayal done against Betty? Veronica only went into the closet with Archie so that Cheryl wouldn't go in her place, in an act of protecting Betty. Yes, she did end up kissing Archie- which, while still isn't a betrayal (Betty is not entitled to Archie and Veronica isn't Betty's servant, she can date who she likes) would warrant some hurt feelings, EXCEPT that Betty didn't know that they kissed (before later on in the episode) and if anything should assume they didn't, because Veronica clearly stated that she didn't want to go into the closet at all.
  • As far as Spin the Bottle goes, Veronica and Archie going was really bad luck, but from Cheryl's point of view, I don't think it actually mattered. Either Veronica goes with Archie and Betty feels betrayed, some other girl goes with Archie and Betty feels betrayed, or Archie and Betty go and Archie is forced to finally shoot Betty's hopes down for good. With Veronica, Betty's problem is less "Veronica kissed Archie" and more "Veronica claimed to want to help me with Archie, and then she kissed Archie herself anyway." It's not the kiss itself that's the problem (because, as you said, Veronica and Archie can do what they want), it's that from Betty's perspective, Veronica deceived her. Finally, as far as Betty not knowing about the kiss, the implication is that Cheryl said some things to Betty offscreen, while the camera was on Archie and Veronica in the closet, that set her off. Cheryl shook her trust in Veronica, and then Archie confirmed her fears.
  • Another thing about the spin the bottle incident: Veronica claims to have gone into the closet with Archie because it was preferable to Cheryl going with him. Why? Yes, Betty probably wouldn't like her crush to make out with Cheryl, who was frequently awful to her back then. However, is that really worse than Archie possibly making out with Veronica who, as far as we can tell, is Betty's first real female friend? If Cheryl and Archie made out, Veronica could have just trash-talked her to cheer Betty up. Furthermore, wouldn't Betty know that Archie had no interest in Cheryl, and has too much personal integrity to be manipulated by someone so nasty?

"Inadmissible In a Court of Law"

• So Mary, who is a lawyer, talks Archie and company out of telling Sherriff Keller that the gun that killed Jason wasn't there when they searched FP's house previously because they discovered that information while breaking and entering, and therefore the gun is inadmissible... what? That's not how the legal system works. There are hundreds of cases where someone comes across evidence of a crime while trespassing or breaking and entering, and that evidence isn't inadmissible unless the person in question is serving as an agent of the police (and therefore violating the person's fourth amendment rights to protection from unlawful search and seizure) so wouldn't a lawyer know something like that?
  • I think that was just Mary dumbing down the situation so the kids would get it. Think about it: if the kids say they broke and entered and that's how they knew there was no gun, that raises the question of why the kids were breaking and entering in the first place. They broke and entered because Alice Cooper told them to do so, and Alice Cooper told them to do so because she... was suspicious that FP killed Jason. Now, none of that is too bad on its own, except for the fact that there's no way for Archie and Veronica to actually prove that there was no gun in the building before: even if the judge accepts that they're telling the truth having been in there, the prosecution could say that A and V just didn't find it and the cops did. The police simply being better at searching a house is perfectly plausible. Aside from all this, Archie and Veronica are not impartial witnesses, they're friends with FP's kid and his kid's girlfriend and that could skew their testimony. All this means that bringing up the breaking-and-entering a) does nothing to actually help FP's case, b) risks making FP look worse by reminding everyone just how suspicious he actually seems and c) risks opening the kids to prosecution for breaking and entering. Because despite what you may have seen on Scooby-Doo, it is actually not legal to break into somebody's home to look for evidence that they might have committed a crime.

Cheryl's testimony

• I understand that Cheryl didn't actually overhear her father threaten FP but why is this information treated as new/a lie when Jughead's narration in either episode 12 or 13 already stated that Clifford Blossom did in fact threaten to kill Jughead if FP didn't cover up the murder? Unless this is how that information came to light(and Cheryl just stumbled onto the truth through her lie) then Jughead's previous narration makes no sense.
  • Because the information previously came from FP himself, thus was subject to scepticism in a court of law. Jughead knew it was true, but FP couldn't prove he wasn't making it up to try and get a lesser sentence. By having a third party confirm it, it automatically casts him in a much more lenient light hence why the Judge calls for a revaluation.
    • Also, in reality FP wasn't being threatened with Jughead's life until the night of his wrongful arrest when Clifford went to make sure he kept his mouth shut. So Cheryl isn't lying about there being a threat involved, but she is lying about when exactly that threat happened, and that might be the part which is news to the court.

I don't want my friends to become drug dealers

• WTF? Did the writers seriously forget that the serpents sell weed? Not only was this a plot point last season but FP verbally acknowledged this to both Jughead and Sheriff Keller. Yet this season Toni judges the ghoulies for selling drugs and Jughead starts spouting bullshit about not wanting his new "friends" to be drug dealers? Arguments surrounding the legalization of weed aside, they were/are illegally selling a potentially dangerous drug ergo they have always been drug dealers which means Toni and Jughead make no sense.
  • This troper thinks it has more to do with "hard" vs. "soft" drugs. Weed is not very addictive, while drugs like meth, heroin, or "Jingle-Jangle" have a. a much higher rate of addiction after first use and b. much more destructive side effects. There is a reason stoners are thought of as very relaxed and chill, while our image of a heroin addict is that of a jittery, sweaty, nervous mess. Hard drugs famously destroy people's lives, something you barely, if ever, hear happening to people who smoke marijuana. So it could be that Toni and Jug object more to the moral component of selling drugs than the legal one, as in: Selling weed is illegal, but morally not really troubling, but selling Jingle-Jangle or meth or heroin is both illegal, which also means dangerous, as well as morally reprehensible.
  • The Serpents are a major case of Heel–Face Revolving Door with a touch of Protagonist-Centered Morality. One moment they are depicted as an oppressed group just looking out for each other, the next they are going around trashing things and threatening people. Jughead seems to have a highly idealistic view of the Serpents and is often willing to overlook some of their worse behaviors out of a sense of loyalty. Also, most of them are very poor, so Jughead is probably willing to tolerate a certain amount of criminal behavior if it keeps the gang afloat.

Why ship Choni?

• They seem out of nowhere just forced, plus why would Toni still wanna be with Cheryl after how she saw how crazy she was, stalking Josie and sending her a pig's heart?
  • Because people can ship whatever they want? Shipping isn’t some scholarly or moral examination- it’s supposed to be fun. As far as them being “forced” the same could be said- if not more validly- about FP and Alice or Jughead and Betty or any of the other ships in the show. And about Toni being with her despite the stalking- Jughead is with Betty after knowing she waterboarded and boiled a person, and blackmailed someone with her brother’s murder to force them into committing perjury- amongst other examples between them and other pairings. Why is the ONE relationship between two women the only one held up to such scrutiny?
  • Toni is a member of a motorcycle gang that is involved in plenty of criminal activity. In comparison, Cheryl's high school stalking probably seems pretty tame.

No one called 911?

• When Cheryl texted Veronica telling her about her imminent suicide, why did NO ONE think to call 911? I know they might not trust the cops at this point, but A: In this case, they would send an ambulance instead of the police, and B: They don't have to tell the 911 operator anything about the circumstances of the situation. All they have to say is "My friend Cheryl Blossom texted me that she's going to kill herself. She's at Sweetwater River." That's it.
  • Firstly, keep in mind that Cheryl texted Veronica saying 'I'm going to be with Jason now'. They were mostly sure it was at Sweetwater River, but they weren't 100% sure. Calling the police etc. for Cheryl and saying she was there when she could have been anywhere else actually could have led to Cheryl killing herself successfully. It was lucky Archie got the location right.

Why don't the other teen serpents get in trouble for attacking Penny?

• Sure Jughead was the ringleader and it's good that he got called out for it, but the other teen serpents were just as guilty of breaking the loyalty laws so how and why did they get off scott free?
  • Penny seems to have a weird dynamic with Jughead from the start, which turns into an obsession with taking him down. What with plotting to kill him (or just cut his tattoo off, I don't really remember), she probably forgot about the involvement of the other serpents. That said, she did end up kidnapping Toni briefly (although that was also to draw out Jughead so she and the Ghoulies could kill him).

Why are we rooting for the Serpents?

• While there are worse villains on the show, the fact is that being in a gang period is a bad thing. It looked like the show was going to showcase that for a while, but then the Serpents are suddenly victims and misunderstood. That seems very messed up. Doesn't the show know that it's sending a dangerous message?
  • Maybe due to the fact that portrayal of the Serpents is mostly through Jughead's eyes- the series is his novel, don't forget. So thus, when he was on the Northside where Serpents were the most notorious and disliked gang, they are portrayed as troublemakers. Then he has to go to the Southside where Toni takes him under her wing, where he befriends Fangs and Sweet Pea. Now the Serpents are sympathetic to an extent.

Cheryl's reaction to the Farm's secret

• Cheryl and the other Farmie teens obviously thought it was totally reasonable to receive operations for medical conditions they never had until they met Edgar, and presumably from unqualified "medical staff". So, why was Cheryl so horrified to learn that the Farm is actually harvesting people's organs? If she's so brainwashed, wouldn't she just believe that there's a reasonable explanation for there being a human heart in a box? Also, she's a smart girl, so what did she think was going on with Kevin and Moose having big scars where their kidneys are? I just thought she came to her senses way too easily, all things considered.

How is Cheryl a lesbian?

• First they said she was bisexual and then they change it to lesbian? Lesbians don't kiss men like how she did to Archie and Moose.
  • It's very likely Cheryl was deep in the closet before she met Toni, considering how emotionally abusive her parents are, and how badly her mom reacted when she found Cheryl in bed with a female friend some years prior. Her interest in Archie and Nick St. Clair may have just attempted to try and talk herself into being straight.
    • In addition to the above- firstly, “they” never said she was bisexual. Madelaine, her actress, who has no actual control over the writing, said that “she thinks” Cheryl is bisexual. When asked on Twitter, an actual writer for the show stated that they still hadn’t decided on Cheryl’s sexuality whilst Madelaine was making those statements. Later, she said that she and RAS, the showrunner have talked and have realized that Cheryl is a lesbian. My own assumption is that RAS intended for Cheryl to be a lesbian from the beginning of her coming out story (the Josie-Stalking I mean) and clarified the situation with Madelaine later once the script was written or planned with Cheryl identifying herself as a lesbian. Second, your question is profoundly ignorant. Who are you to say what each individual lesbian can or cannot do? There are many lesbians in real life who got married and have even had kids with men before they realize or accept the fact that they are lesbians (Wanda Sykes and Portia De Rossi, for example); Cheryl’s licking her lips at Archie once hardly disqualifies her from being a lesbian. Do you think Elton John or Little Richard or Peter Allen (amongst many others) are lying about being gay? They were married to women. For whatever it’s worth, her “flirting” with Archie and Nick (and kissing Moose) felt very performative and disingenuous to most fans - which is what lead to many fans theorizing that Cheryl was a lesbian or bisexual in the first place. The real headscratcher here is what’s with all the lesbophobia on the Riverdale Tv Tropes pages?

Alice's season three journey

• So do we actually believe that Alice was secretly undercover the whole time in the Farm? Because I still 100% consider that an Ass Pull from the writers because they were afraid of losing Alice's fandom. I understand that she couldn't have told Betty about being undercover but why couldn't she have just let her stay away from the Farm? Not to mention the things she did to Betty while being undercover. She gave her college money to a cult, sold Betty's childhood home, told Betty she was scared of her, and told her she trusted the Farm more than her own daughter. Not to mention that Alice gladly let her daughter's friends be indoctrinated into the cult and literally have their organs taken. Kevin lost an organ and I seriously doubt the Farmie doctors are professionals. So much could have gone wrong. Once again, I understand she couldn't just tell the people of Riverdale not to join the Farm but couldn't she have reported to the FBI? I guess this still just comes down to me thinking this was nothing more than one big Ass Pull from the writers so they don't have to redeem Alice emotionally abusing Betty throughout the whole season.
  • I think this is sort of touched on in e08s04 when Betty and Alice both go to therapy with Mrs. Burble - Alice says that she gave Betty's college fund away while she was under Edgar's influence. So, she was genuinely participating in the Farm at some point and became the mole later. Although that raises even more questions about how long Alice was brainwashed, and how Charles was able to convince her to become an informant if she was already indoctrinated. I feel like the writers came up with the "Alice was an FBI informant the whole time" story, but then had to backtrack and say she'd been brainwashed at the beginning because there's really no good or sympathetic explanation for her giving away the college fund otherwise.

Midge's mom

• I swear to God I saw Midge's mom in the Farmie crowd during the Heathers Musical. Why the hell would she even be out in the streets of Riverdale? She shot Fangs! You'd think she be in jail. Sure, you could chalk it up to Sheriff Minetta being in charge at the time but still.
  • Maybe the justice system in Riverdale took pity on a grieving mother, especially since the kid she shot was a Serpent from the wrong side of the tracks?
  • The grieving mother still shot a child who was proven innocent. I don't care how much she was grieving, that is attempted murder.

Betty and the Vixens

• When exactly did Betty stop being a cheerleader? And on that note, why is Veronica still on the team? Both B and V are fairly busy (Betty's got the school newspaper, Veronica is running a business, and they're both constantly caught up in some kind of mystery) without playing a sport, and I thought the whole point of Veronica joining the team was to support Betty, who didn't think Cheryl would let her in by herself. What exactly does Veronica gain by staying on the team, especially since she and Cheryl only seem to get along about half of the time.
  • Apparently Lili Reinhart didn't want to film Vixen's scenes anymore so I guess she quit the squad off-screen. As for Veronica, I guess it's because she's befriended Toni and has this on and off friendship with Cheryl so she stayed for them. Or maybe she's just really into cheerleading.

Cheryl and Jason's ages

• It's frequently mentioned that Cheryl and Jason are twins, but Jason was in the same class as Polly, Betty's sister who is two years older than her. So did Jason skip two grades, or was Cheryl just held back a lot?
  • It's possible that Jason skipped a couple of grades but it's also possible that Polly was possibly held back? Or maybe the writers just wanted to stick Cheryl with the main group so they forgot she's supposed to be older.

Beatrice Cooper

• If the Coopers were founded as a cadet branch of the Blossoms around the time Riverdale was founded, how could there be a Beatrice Cooper involved with burning Abigail Blossom at the stake?

FP's backstory

• In one of the early seasons, when FP is holding a speech for the Serpents, after the police tried to force him to leave the Serpents, FP tells the story of how his father threw him out of the house when he was 16, and he joined the Serpents who became his new family. In the episode 'The Midnight Club', where we see the parents when they were in High School, we see that FP's dad was a Serpent and wanted him to join them, but FP wanted to play football and tried to be something he wasn't, which Alice calls him out on in front of everyone. The episode ends with FP joining the serpents and his dad handing him a beer, as if he's finally accepting him. But, in a later episode, there's a whole storyline of Jughead trying to find his grandfather, where FP tells him that his father was a drunk who abandoned FP and his mother when he was a kid. Which is it?

Fanservice kiss?

• What the heck was Veronica trying to do by kissing Betty in the first episode? Nobody knew at that point that Cheryl liked girls- including Cheryl herself- so what exactly was her reasoning there?

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