History Headscratchers / KungFuPanda2

*** (4) RuleOfFunny
*** (5) Because it really was a terrible day for him, since it seemed like everything he had lost, everything he had denied Tai Lung, all of the mistakes he'd made, were all for naught. The Dragon Warrior - something he had striven for, pushed his son to destruction for - was reduced to (in his mind) a ''joke''. By his own master. Imagine if you'd spent your whole life protecting something. You protect it even from the people you love, even from your own children. And then one day the person whom you respect most in the world turns around and gives that tremendous prize to some random bungling idiot who just dropped out of the sky. I think it was the worst day of his life because it was the first day where he thought that he might have lost his son ''for nothing''.
*** I was bothered by that too, until I came to the same conclusion as point 5. Glad to see someone else could find the same sense in it that I did--I am not alone!
*** Also note that immediately after saying that it was the worst day of his life, Shifu adds that he then realized that the problem was within himself, which allowed him to resolve that inner conflict and achieve inner peace. Just because you solve a problem doesn't mean the problem never existed, and the same goes for pain: Just because you get over it doesn't mean that you were never hurt at all. If you get shot and recover, getting shot will still be pretty high on your list of shittiest things that happened to you, and the same thing applies here.

** AllThereInTheManual
*** Okay, that actually tells me ''NOTHING.'' I think we need a rule somewhere that if you put down "All There In the Manual," you need to put down WHICH manual you're referring to.
*** Not to mention that the movie explicitly states that the reason Shen's family banished him was because they were ''horrified'' that [[MoralEventHorizon he killed an entire village.]]
*** I've no idea which manual it is. Most I've heard is that it was part of his backstory. The reason he was banished has nothing to do with anything. It's totally unrelated to why his parents didn't see any value in him.
*** Maybe they changed something between their concept of his backstory and their enactment of it. I also only watched the film, and it seemed to me like Shen's parents were perfectly fine parents, and he messed things up all on his own.
*** I agree that the movie didn't support it, though an easy way to link the two is that was Lord Shen's perspective on the situation. He was sickly as a child, they didn't know how to care for him so sent him to be raised by the Soothsayer who clearly knows medicine (as seen later) who could care for him. Shen viewed this as them being ashamed of him for his color and sickly nature and saw it as abandonment. It's completely in character for him, as he viewed them banishing him for genocide as him being wronged.
*** The "manual" in question was the KFP website which was updated with info about all the characters' backstories before the sequel came out. Shen's whole story about his ParentalAbandonment and being hated for being a sickly albino was detailed there. As to why it was removed, I am guessing because Dream Works learned their lesson from Tai Lung and knew they had to make things less ambiguous to keep the viewers from finding yet another villain UnintentionallySympathetic.
*** I still would say that Tai Lung was intentionally sympathetic (supplementary materials do not form a united opinion here). But more importantly, Shen's backstory from what probably was the initial draft made him practically almost a clone of Tai Lung. The actual movie version still has heavy parallels with Tai Lung, but makes Shen a commentary on what Tai Lung would have turned into, had everything happened as he envisioned by the time of KFP 1 story (including the Dragon Scroll giving him more power). As we can see, successfully gaining the immense power he felt entitled to possess at the expense of his family did not make Shen a slightest bit happy. Neither he had any idea what to do with this power or what he wanted from life now, so he slided into just showing them, showing them all, how powerful he is. Same would have happened to Tai Lung in case of him successfully destroying/beating into submission/outliving the rest of the cast and becoming the most powerful kung fu warrior ever with the help of the Dragon Scroll. Except Shen at least had someone with remaining attachments to him (the Soothsayer, and the Wolf Boss). Tai Lung would have been completely alone on the top and with the quest that was his entire life essentially over.
*** Him being sympathetic was intentional, but they apparently didn't intend it to be as deep and overpowering as it was for so many. Which is why it sucks that they gave Tai Lung the fate they did; since he didn't, in fact, get to claim his power the way Shen did, and he has legitimate reasons for us to sympathize with him unlike Shen, it hardly seems fair that they ''both'' get killed. The fact the filmmakers say Tai Lung refusing to accept Po's explanation of the scroll's meaning was his LastSecondChance and him refusing it means he can never have a HeelFaceTurn...doesn't bode well at all, suggesting they will either leave his fate unexplained or, if he does appear in the series or a later sequel, he will ''still'' be a villain. Thus making him flat, one-note, and losing all the dramatic potential such a storyline would hold. After the way he was defeated by Po, he does in fact have a chance to prove he isn't Shen, to reconnect with his father, find a meaning and purpose in life beyond fighting (or at least to give the fighting a purpose--protecting others, as kung fu is meant for). But they won't give him that, because of course villains are always bad and should never be allowed to change. For a company set on making movies that are DarkerAndEdgier, more adult and complex, it seems odd and disappointing they wouldn't address this issue. Do they think kids can't handle the idea of a bad guy becoming good?
*** Technically Tai Lung had multiple chances to stop what he was doing, all of which were rejected for various reasons that are argued or mentioned elsewhere. He heads for the Valley of Peace rather than simply disappearing after breaking out of prison (personally that's what I would've done, though I'd prefer to avoid prison in the first place). Later he defeats the Furious Five, the best Shifu has trained, at the same time. I'm curious as to whether or not he knew Tigress was his sister, but that's another topic altogether. He has basically proved himself as the best to everyone else, but apparently not himself. He could have stopped there with his "I'm the best warrior ever" reputation intact. He then faces off against Shifu, his father, and wins. He even gets an apology and recognition for his accomplishments from Shifu, something Tigress never got. There was actually a point where it looks like Tai Lung had calmed down, then it was back to "Where's my scroll?". He would have killed Shifu if Po had not shown up. Tai Lung eventually gets the scroll, doesn't understand its meaning, and promptly takes out his frustration on Po and gets humiliated. Even after that he tries to attack Po again. Granted that last one was pathetic, but it shows that Tai Lung had very little intention of stopping. In the end, Tai Lung is going to need some serious character development to be redeemable, assuming the cat is still alive.
*** Sure, but as has been pointed out multiple times up above, if Tai Lung either couldn't see what he was doing was wrong, ignored it because he thought he'd been promised the scroll or believed he had to have it in order to make Shifu proud of him (we never see or hear anything from him to suggest he was just greedy for power, or if he was what exactly he intended to do with the power once he had it), or was too arrogant/enraged/selfish to stop what he was doing, make amends, realize what good things he did have or could have, etc....this is as much Shifu's fault as it is Tai Lung's for raising him as he did. And of course, if Tai Lung were still alive and the possibility of redemption was broached, he would have to develop greatly as a character to achieve it. No one is denying that, in fact everyone who is defending Tai Lung is doing so because they clearly know how complex, painful, and meaningful such a process would be, and that's ''why'' they want to see it. So Dream Works is avoiding it because...they don't feel they can do such a character arc justice? They think it's too hard, too much work? They think no one cares or would want to see it? (Don't see how that could be the reason, since not only are there clearly lots of people interested in Tai Lung's fate and character, but the directors know people were finding him sympathetic, which is the perfect lead-in to such a plot.) They only want to focus on Po because he is their hero and Chosen One? They just don't think Tai Lung can be redeemed so why bother? You can see why most of these possible explanations could make people not particularly pleased with the writers' choices.

*** EDITED: Tigress is probably a bit younger. At the time of the first film she cannot be much older than twenty, because she was adopted after Tai Lung lost it twenty years ago, and she looked very young in both "Secrets of Furious Five" and her flashback, only about the same size as baby Tai Lung, so probably no more than five years old (and it's not very likely that Shifu picked her from the orphanage immediately after Tai Lung's rampage). By the second film, several years have passed (because Tigress mentions that the length of her training is twenty years - again, she obviously couldn't have started training before Tai Lung was sent to prison, Tai Lung was in prison for twenty years, and she was several years old when she was adopted, so several of those twenty years of training should have been the years between films). Another indicator of the large time gap between films is the fact, that Po doesn't seem to personally remember Tai Lung's rampage, so it must have happened before or soon after he was adopted by Ping. As Po was adopted thirty years before the events of KFP 2, and Tai Lung was in prison for twenty years, ''as many as nine to ten years ought to have passed between the two films''. Therefore Tigress might have been adopted halfway through Tai Lung's imprisonment and is less than twenty years old during KFP 1. However, this is not set in stone, as Tigress might have referred to the particular type of training, instead of the entire length of her apprenticeship under Shifu (indeed, we know from ''Secrets of the Furious Five'' that her initial training was the exact opposite to building up strength and endurance), so you might add another year or two. Note also, that as all time spans seem to be unusually round - and they all are mentioned with emphasis on the length of time the character suffered/trained/waited - it is most likely that characters round them up. As about Crane, Viper and Mantis. they all are almost certainly older than Tigress. They all have found their ways into Shifu's elite crew due to becoming accomplished kung fu warriors on their own, with Mantis already being a renowned master before joining the Five (and actually looking middle-aged in the films), while Crane/Viper started their actual kung fu careers in late teens at the earliest. Hard to tell about Monkey. Po is more than thirty in the second movie and no more twenty two - twenty three in the first. Tai Lung is forty (and now close to fifty, if he's alive), give or take a few years, depending on how fast he trained, might be biologically younger, due to the effects of the restraining shell. Shen is around fifty (thirty years of exile + his youth), maybe a bit younger, again, depending on how much of a prodigy he was. And the Wolf Boss should be around the same age as Shen.

*** I don't think that quite answers the question. After all, aren't her hands where the cuffs are?
*** Logically, she meant her paws when she said "now I feel nothing", wording was just deliberately ambiguous to set up the dialogue during the confrontation with Po in prison.
*** Well, it's her arms too, if you remember the scene where Po punches her in the arm after commenting on how "hard-core" she is.
*** [[FridgeBrilliance They're acupuncture cuffs.]] Assuming Tigress was speaking literally, her hands have probably been desensitized to the force of ''impacts'', not piercings.

* Shen's knifes. I can never seem to figure out how they work. How does he conceal them so easily without them falling out of his robes? If they're strapped to his body, how is he able to throw them without actually touching them? And if they're hidden under his tail, like my brothers guessed, how does he, well, you know, throw them? And also HOW THE HELL DID HE FIT AN ENTIRE ONE METER ''SWORD'' IN THERE?!

*** White tigers exist in China...
*** [[FridgeHorror I don't recall seeing very many White Tigers in this universe either]]
*** What about a snow leopard. Tai Lung is proof they exist in that country.
*** Snow leopards are mostly ''gray'', with black and white accents.
*** White tigers are only known to come from India, and are extremely rare anyway.

* What happened to Po's travel pack? We see him wearing it in the first scene of the group travelling to Gongmen City, then he seems to have ditched it despite it being filled with useful supplies and his precious action figures. Even worse, we later see him use the Mantis figure as a distraction. Where was he keeping it if not in the pack??

* Am I the only one who was bothered by the fact that Po, unlike [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist Colonel Mustang]] and [[Disney/BigHero6 Hiro Hamada]], doesn’t nearly becoming HeWhoFightsMonsters or JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope upon learning what happened to his kind? I always know he is too gentle to seek revenge on anyone, but it still bothers me.
** There are a couple differences between Po and Hiro Hamada: 1.) Hiro's brother had only died a few weeks prior to the main action of the film, so the wounds were still fresh and could still cause him pain if you pushed him too far. Po's early childhood trauma happened so far back that he hadn't been bothered to think of what had become of his panda parents until the wolves showed up in his hometown. As the film reminds us, he's had a lot more experience to use in weighing how much his past makes him who he is - it's the rest of his story that really counts. 2.) Even before Tadashi died, Hiro was always shown to be something of a reckless, irresponsible, insufferably genius teenager who rebelled against most sources of authority. As you've mentioned, the person Po grew up to be was not one to let the trauma of his past spill into his life in the present. His central conflict in this film is only him coming to realize that.
** Wait, so OP already knew Po wasn't the kind of person to seek revenge, but is saying he's bothered that Po didn't try to seek revenge? I don't understand why this is a question.

* What happened to Crane's broken wing? One scene he's forced to run, the next scene he's flying fine, and the next scene, well,
-->Wings of Justice!!!

*** [[InterchangeableAsianCultures Ninjas are NOT Chinese.]] Ninjas are Japanese. As is Karate, while we're on the subject. And besides that, most ninjas were female, and trained from birth. Crane is neither of those things.

** Maybe Po's biological father was a locally reknowned Kung Fu warrior, and Shen's mind immediately assumed it would be him or one of his students who were fated to defeat him.

* In the final fight scene, you might wonder how the cannon was held ''up'' by ropes attached to the ship's deck - the ropes actually held up the pieces of debris supporting the cannon's base. When they broke, the wood shifted enough for it to overbalance and fall.

* In the final fight scene, you might wonder how [[spoiler:the cannon was held ''up'' by ropes attached to the ship's deck - the ropes actually held up the pieces of debris supporting the cannon's base. When they broke, the wood shifted enough for it to overbalance and fall.]]

** [[spoiler: The sequel to this movie reveals why: Pandas were believed to be an ancient order of monks who knew how to manipulate Chi, to the point that the Warlord Kai wanted their power for his own to conquer China and Shen feared that it would be the method used to take him down due to the prophecy, so he was determined to invent something to counter it at all cost. Gunpowder just so happened to be nearby...]]

** Indeed, if any of the other wolves witnesses Shen turning on their commander for refusing to blast his own troops, they may well have switched sides on their own initiative even if Po and the Five ''had'' died. Especially if, as per RealLife wolf social hierarchies, he was their ''patriarch'' as well as their military leader.

* Am I the only one who was bothered by the fact that Po, unlike [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist Colonel Mustang]] and [[Disney/BigHero6 Hiro Hamada]], avoids approaching HeWhoFightsMonsters territory when he learns the truth about what happened to his kind? I always know he is too gentle to seek revenge on anyone, but it still bothers me.

* Am I the only one who was bothered by the fact that Po, unlike [[Manga/FullmetalAlchemist Colonel Mustang]] and [[Disney/BigHero6 Hiro Hamada]], avoids approaching HeWhoFightsMonsters territory when he learns the truth about what happened to his kind?

*** EDITED: Tigress is probably a bit younger. At the time of the first film she cannot be much older than twenty, because she was adopted after Tai Lung lost it twenty years ago, and she looked very young in both "Secrets of Furious Five" and her flashback, only about the same size as baby Tai Lung, so probably no more than five years old (and it's not very likely that Shifu picked her from the orphanage immediately after Tai Lung's rampage). By the second film, several years have passed (because Tigress mentions that the length of her training is twenty years - again, she obviously couldn't have started training before Tai Lung was sent to prison, Tai Lung was in prison for twenty years, and she was several years old when she was adopted, so several of those twenty years of training should have been the years between films). Another indicator of the large time gap between films is the fact, that Po doesn't seem to personally remember Tai Lung's rampage, so it must have happened before or soon after he was adopted by Ping. As Po was adopted thirty years before the events of KFP 2, and Tai Lung was in prison for twenty years, ''as many as nine to ten years ought to have passed between the two films''. Therefore Tigress might have been adopted halfway through Tai Lung's imprisonment and is less than twenty years old during KFP 1. However, this is not set in stone, as Tigress might have referred to the particular type of training, instead of the entire length of her apprenticeship under Shifu (indeed, we know from ''Secrets of the Furious Five'' that her initial training was the exact opposite to building up strength and endurance), so you might add another year or two. Not also, that as all time spans seem to be unusually round - and they all are mentioned with emphasis on the length of time the character suffered/trained/waited - it is most likely that characters round them up. As about Crane, Viper and Mantis. they all are almost certainly older than Tigress. They all have found their ways into Shifu's elite crew due to becoming accomplished kung fu warriors on their own, with Mantis already being a renowned master before joining the Five (and actually looking middle-aged in the films), while Crane/Viper started their actual kung fu careers in late teens at the earliest. Hard to tell about Monkey. Po is more than thirty in the second movie and no more twenty two - twenty three in the first. Tai Lung is forty (and now close to fifty, if he's alive), give or take a few years, depending on how fast he trained, might be biologically younger, due to the effects of the restraining shell. Shen is around fifty (thirty years of exile + his youth), maybe a bit younger, again, depending on how much of a prodigy he was. And the Wolf Boss should be around the same age as Shen.