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* In ''Reunion'', Zack learns to use Blade Stance after gaining the Buster Sword. However, he's still capable of using the stance in the optional beach missions, despite those missions forcing him to use an umbrella. This seems like a case of GameplayAndStorySegregation at first, but it should be noted that Blade Stance is obtained after a timeskip of several months and was likely developed through training. Since Zack is a MasterSwordsman, he could easily adapt the stance to lighter swords and even non-swords in case he were to ever lose access to the Buster Sword.
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Proficiency can actually reach 100. It's just that the process is not mentioned in-game.


* Zack's Last Stand has him up against an entire ''army'' of Shinra grunts, using countless amounts of ammunition, explosives, and even ''choppers'' to take him down. Then it comes down to the last three who finish him off. Canonically, it's all but stated that Zack slaughtered the whole army until these three were left, which explains why they give him such an UndignifiedDeath: as far as they were concerned, he just went traitor-psycho mass murderer and was ''cracking a one-liner about it'' before the fight really went under way, resulting in a rather spiteful MakeSureHesDead.

!!FridgeLogic
* In ''Reunion'', the mastery of the Buster Sword caps at 95%. [[AbsurdlyHighLevelCap While it takes hard grinding to even come close to that,]] it also means that no matter how much sidetrack to go through, Zack never really got to master the Buster Sword, even if he was good with it. There is not enough time between him acquiring it and having to pass it on to the next hero...

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* Zack's Last Stand has him up against an entire ''army'' of Shinra grunts, using countless amounts of ammunition, explosives, and even ''choppers'' to take him down. Then it comes down to the last three who finish him off. Canonically, it's all but stated that Zack slaughtered the whole army until these three were left, which explains why they give him such an UndignifiedDeath: as far as they were concerned, he just went traitor-psycho mass murderer and was ''cracking a one-liner about it'' before the fight really went under way, resulting in a rather spiteful MakeSureHesDead.

!!FridgeLogic
* In ''Reunion'', the mastery of the Buster Sword caps at 95%. [[AbsurdlyHighLevelCap While it takes hard grinding to even come close to that,]] it also means that no matter how much sidetrack to go through, Zack never really got to master the Buster Sword, even if he was good with it. There is not enough time between him acquiring it and having to pass it on to the next hero...
MakeSureHesDead.
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** The Ultimania mentions the Digital Mind Wave to be Zack's own Limit Break.
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Added example(s)


* Zack's Last Stand has him up against an entire ''army'' of Shinra grunts, using countless amounts of ammunition, explosives, and even ''choppers'' to take him down. Then it comes down to the last three who finish him off. Canonically, it's all but stated that Zack slaughtered the whole army until these three were left, which explains why they give him such an UndignifiedDeath: as far as they were concerned, he just went traitor-psycho mass murderer and was ''cracking a one-liner about it'' before the fight really went under way, resulting in a rather spiteful MakeSureHesDead.

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* Zack's Last Stand has him up against an entire ''army'' of Shinra grunts, using countless amounts of ammunition, explosives, and even ''choppers'' to take him down. Then it comes down to the last three who finish him off. Canonically, it's all but stated that Zack slaughtered the whole army until these three were left, which explains why they give him such an UndignifiedDeath: as far as they were concerned, he just went traitor-psycho mass murderer and was ''cracking a one-liner about it'' before the fight really went under way, resulting in a rather spiteful MakeSureHesDead.MakeSureHesDead.

!!FridgeLogic
* In ''Reunion'', the mastery of the Buster Sword caps at 95%. [[AbsurdlyHighLevelCap While it takes hard grinding to even come close to that,]] it also means that no matter how much sidetrack to go through, Zack never really got to master the Buster Sword, even if he was good with it. There is not enough time between him acquiring it and having to pass it on to the next hero...
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None


* Look at Sephiroth's face during the entire game, his skin is clear, his eyes are bright blue/green, then look at the infamous fire scene, his skin is pale, his eyes have shadows under them, his eyes seem dull and sinister. Remember, this is practically the only game where we see Sephiroth before his madness for longer than the flashback, showing how disturbing a change Sephiroth had in personality and apparently, physical appearance.

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* Look at Sephiroth's face during the entire game, his skin is clear, his eyes are bright blue/green, then look at the infamous fire scene, his skin is pale, his eyes have shadows under them, his eyes seem dull and sinister. Remember, this is practically the only game where we see Sephiroth before his madness for longer than the flashback, showing how disturbing a change Sephiroth had in personality and apparently, physical appearance.appearance.
* Zack's Last Stand has him up against an entire ''army'' of Shinra grunts, using countless amounts of ammunition, explosives, and even ''choppers'' to take him down. Then it comes down to the last three who finish him off. Canonically, it's all but stated that Zack slaughtered the whole army until these three were left, which explains why they give him such an UndignifiedDeath: as far as they were concerned, he just went traitor-psycho mass murderer and was ''cracking a one-liner about it'' before the fight really went under way, resulting in a rather spiteful MakeSureHesDead.

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* Zack's last stand here ends up contrasting a lot with that of Cloud's own internal final fight against Sephiroth in ''FFVII'':
** Whereas Cloud's final battle against Sephiroth was a one-on-one duel taking place as a BattleInTheCenterOfTheMind, Zack's last stand is a prolonged group battle against waves of Shirna soldiers happening in real life.
** While Cloud earns his strongest LimitBreak to use against Sephiroth even if Omnislash wasn't naturally learned prior, Zack actively suffers from CombatBreakdown which sees his once diverse arsenal of moves go away the longer he's pushed to the brink.
** Even though Sephiroth is a godlike being who had pushed Cloud and his friends to the limit as Bizarro and Safer Sephiroth, he's ultimately defeated in an incredibly easy fight that the player cannot lose even if they tried. Conversely, the endless amount of Shinra troops does get to overwhelming Zack in time, aptly trapping him in a scenario where the player cannot win regardless of how well they play.

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* Fittingly apt for the person who would go on to so very much influence the future of ''FFVII'', Zack's last stand here ends up contrasting a lot contrasts heavily with that of Cloud's own final battle against Sephiroth. Whereas Cloud brief internal final fight against Sephiroth in ''FFVII'':
** Whereas Cloud's final
battle against Sephiroth was a one-on-one duel taking place as a BattleInTheCenterOfTheMind, Zack's last stand is a prolonged group battle against waves of Shirna soldiers happening in real life.
** While Cloud earns
ends with him obtaining his strongest LimitBreak to use and is an overall brief affair which cannot be lost at all, Zack's stand against Sephiroth even if Omnislash wasn't naturally learned prior, Zack Shinra is a drawn-out affair where he actively suffers from CombatBreakdown which sees and gradually loses his once diverse arsenal of moves go away the longer he's pushed to the brink.
** Even though Sephiroth is a godlike being who had pushed Cloud and his friends to the limit as Bizarro and Safer Sephiroth, he's ultimately defeated
abilities, culminating in an incredibly easy a fight that the player cannot lose even if they tried. Conversely, the endless amount of Shinra troops does get to overwhelming Zack in time, aptly trapping him in a scenario where the player cannot win be won regardless of how well they play.
powerful he may have been by then.

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* Zack's final battle here ends up contrasting a lot with that of Cloud's in the original ''FFVII'': Whereas Zack's final battle is against a near-endless amount of SHINRA soldiers that can take up to several minutes and is one he cannot win in spite of his best efforts, Cloud's own is against a singular opponent in Sephiroth which ends in a fraction of that time and cannot be lost regardless of player input.

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* Zack's final battle last stand here ends up contrasting a lot with that of Cloud's own internal final fight against Sephiroth in the original ''FFVII'': ''FFVII'':
**
Whereas Zack's Cloud's final battle is against Sephiroth was a near-endless one-on-one duel taking place as a BattleInTheCenterOfTheMind, Zack's last stand is a prolonged group battle against waves of Shirna soldiers happening in real life.
** While Cloud earns his strongest LimitBreak to use against Sephiroth even if Omnislash wasn't naturally learned prior, Zack actively suffers from CombatBreakdown which sees his once diverse arsenal of moves go away the longer he's pushed to the brink.
** Even though Sephiroth is a godlike being who had pushed Cloud and his friends to the limit as Bizarro and Safer Sephiroth, he's ultimately defeated in an incredibly easy fight that the player cannot lose even if they tried. Conversely, the endless
amount of SHINRA soldiers that can take up Shinra troops does get to several minutes and is one he overwhelming Zack in time, aptly trapping him in a scenario where the player cannot win in spite of his best efforts, Cloud's own is against a singular opponent in Sephiroth which ends in a fraction of that time and cannot be lost regardless of player input.
how well they play.
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* Zack's final battle here ends up contrasting a lot with that of Cloud's in the original ''FFVII'': Whereas Zack's final battle is against a near-endless amount of SHINRA soldiers that can take up to several minutes and is one he cannot win in spite of his best efforts, Cloud's own is against a singular opponent in Sephiroth which ends in a fraction of that time and cannot be lost regardless of player input.
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* Yuffie genuinely seems to be hyperactive and proud in herself as a youth, to the point that she actually isn't playing games when she tries to fight Zack-- she's just so young she doesn't actually know how to fight yet. So here she is proclaiming she saved Wutai after "defeating" Zack in their first encounter.. and then Zack scratches his head, walks off and kills the powerful guardians that gave her nation an edge, effectively sealing her nation's fate under Shinra's boot. Imagine thinking you're contributing to protecting your home, but it didn't do a single thing.
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* Why does Cloud never use the Digital Mind Wave system in the original game or the remake? Because he wasn't SOLDIER; he had the bolstered capabilities of the Jenova cell experiments, but none of the actual training or abilities actual [=SOLDIERs=] like Zack had. Canonically the mechanic's explanation is to draw upon the past experiences to pull off the moves of their comrades or the equivalent of leveling up. Cloud has none of those yet, nor the training to specifically harness it. Zack himself is also ''very'' inspired by all of his allies and enemies alike, hence deriving their moves from them, whereas Cloud effectively just [[WhenAllYouHaveIsAHammer kills things with his sword harder and harder.]]
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** In a similar vein, going back where Cloud and Zack were being held shows only some mof the most important moments. In Crisis Core, Zack was fighting an army and only three soldiers left. Cloud never really saw Zack fighting the army, all he saw is his friend in a pool of blood, killed by three Shinra soldiers. And the Mako did the rest to his memories.

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** In a similar vein, going back where Cloud and Zack were being held shows only some mof of the most important moments. In Crisis Core, Zack was fighting an army and only three soldiers left. Cloud never really saw Zack fighting the army, all he saw is his friend in a pool of blood, killed by three Shinra soldiers. And the Mako did the rest to his memories.

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!!FridgeLogic
* Zack's Last Stand sees the Digital Mind Wave breakdown the further you progress and defeat enemies. This is representative of combat fatigue, which as stated by the original Wikipedia, whose symptoms include fatigue, slower reaction times, indecision, disconnection from one's surroundings, the inability to prioritize, and most significantly, an extreme feeling of losing control of a situation. Along with Zack probably being nothing but put on edge for the last several months looking behind his back for assailants, pinning him against the entire Shinra Army was likely the piledriver to the last nail to his coffin.




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* Zack's Last Stand sees the Digital Mind Wave breakdown the further you progress and defeat enemies. This is representative of combat fatigue, which as stated by the original Wikipedia, whose symptoms include fatigue, slower reaction times, indecision, disconnection from one's surroundings, the inability to prioritize, and most significantly, an extreme feeling of losing control of a situation. Along with Zack probably being nothing but put on edge for the last several months looking behind his back for assailants, pinning him against the entire Shinra Army was likely the piledriver to the last nail to his coffin.
** When it comes down to the last three Shinra soldiers, Zack is so tired he can barely even lift his sword -- yet a maxed out player can hit them for the damage cap easily, to which they all but NoSell because [[PlotArmor they must kill him.]] This seems a bit ridiculous, until you remember that the Digital Mind Wave system is modulating all of the combat data for him, and actively breaking down. Zack is such a {{Determinator}} that even as his mind is wearing out its last moments from stress and injury, he still imagines himself dealing fatal damage to the soldiers, when the reality is that it's more like he's flailing around and barely hurting them if at all. Every part of ''Crisis Core'' has been ''his'' interpretation of events, including his own success in battles.. but once reality catches up to him, [[KilledOffForReal it hits hard.]]
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** In a similar vein, going back where Cloud and Zack were being held shows only some mof the most important moments. In Crisis Core, Zack was fighting an army and only three soldiers left. Cloud never really saw Zack fighting the army, all he saw is his friend in a pool of blood, killed by three Shinra soldiers. And the Mako did the rest to his memories.
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* Zack's Last Stand sees the Digital Mind Wave breakdown the further you progress and defeat enemies. As RealityEnsues, this is representative of combat fatigue, which as stated by the original Wikipedia, whose symptoms include fatigue, slower reaction times, indecision, disconnection from one's surroundings, the inability to prioritize, and most significantly, an extreme feeling of losing control of a situation. Along with Zack probably being nothing but put on edge for the last several months looking behind his back for assailants, pinning him against the entire Shinra Army was likely the piledriver to the last nail to his coffin.

to:

* Zack's Last Stand sees the Digital Mind Wave breakdown the further you progress and defeat enemies. As RealityEnsues, this This is representative of combat fatigue, which as stated by the original Wikipedia, whose symptoms include fatigue, slower reaction times, indecision, disconnection from one's surroundings, the inability to prioritize, and most significantly, an extreme feeling of losing control of a situation. Along with Zack probably being nothing but put on edge for the last several months looking behind his back for assailants, pinning him against the entire Shinra Army was likely the piledriver to the last nail to his coffin.
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The cgi scene in Crisis Core is the exact same one from Advent Children. He still has the evil smile so I think this is kind of moot. Although I will admit this headcanon does add a bit more depth to Sephiroth's character.


* In both the original ''Final Fantasy VII'' & ''Advent Children'', the scene with Sephiroth in Nibelheim's flames had him emitting a Psycho Smirk. However, in this game, the Psycho Smirk is absent, and instead he looks slightly angered or remorseful. ''Crisis Core'' shows us the scene from Zack's perspective, whereas the two previous times were from Cloud's, and the retcon suddenly makes sense - Cloud is ''from'' Nibelheim, so he would see the man who burnt the town to the ground & killed everyone there (Including Cloud's ''mother'') as an unrepentant psychopath.

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!!FridgeLogic
* Zack's Last Stand sees the Digital Mind Wave breakdown the further you progress and defeat enemies. As RealityEnsues, this is representative of combat fatigue, which as stated by the original Wikipedia, whose symptoms include fatigue, slower reaction times, indecision, disconnection from one's surroundings, the inability to prioritize, and most significantly, an extreme feeling of losing control of a situation. Along with Zack probably being nothing but put on edge for the last several months looking behind his back for assailants, pinning him against the entire Shinra Army was likely the piledriver to the last nail to his coffin.



* In both the original ''Final Fantasy VII'' & ''Advent Children'', the scene with Sephiroth in Nibelheim's flames had him emitting a Psycho Smirk. However, in this game, the Psycho Smirk is absent, and instead he looks slightly angered or remorseful. ''Crisis Core'' shows us the scene from Zack's perspective, whereas the two previous times were from Cloud's, and the retcon suddenly makes sense - Cloud is ''from'' Nibelheim, so he would see the man who burnt the town to the ground & killed everyone there (Including Cloud's ''mother'') as an unrepentant psycopath.

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* In both the original ''Final Fantasy VII'' & ''Advent Children'', the scene with Sephiroth in Nibelheim's flames had him emitting a Psycho Smirk. However, in this game, the Psycho Smirk is absent, and instead he looks slightly angered or remorseful. ''Crisis Core'' shows us the scene from Zack's perspective, whereas the two previous times were from Cloud's, and the retcon suddenly makes sense - Cloud is ''from'' Nibelheim, so he would see the man who burnt the town to the ground & killed everyone there (Including Cloud's ''mother'') as an unrepentant psycopath.psychopath.

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!!!FridgeBrilliance

to:

!!!FridgeBrilliance!Per wiki policy, Administrivia/SpoilersOff applies here and all spoilers are unmarked. Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned.

!!FridgeBrilliance



!!!FridgeHorror
* look at Sephiroths' face during the entire game, his skin is clear, his eyes are bright blue/green, then look at the infamouse fire scene, his skin is pale, his eyes have shadows under them, his eyes seem dull and sinister, remember this is practically the only game where we see Sephiroth before his madness for longer than the flashback, showing how disturbing a change Sephiroth had in personality and apparently physical looks.

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!!!FridgeHorror
!!FridgeHorror
* look Look at Sephiroths' Sephiroth's face during the entire game, his skin is clear, his eyes are bright blue/green, then look at the infamouse infamous fire scene, his skin is pale, his eyes have shadows under them, his eyes seem dull and sinister, remember sinister. Remember, this is practically the only game where we see Sephiroth before his madness for longer than the flashback, showing how disturbing a change Sephiroth had in personality and apparently apparently, physical looks.appearance.
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What's the fridge anything here? And anyway, the in-game animation has him clearly using the bladed side.


* look at Sephiroths' face during the entire game, his skin is clear, his eyes are bright blue/green, then look at the infamouse fire scene, his skin is pale, his eyes have shadows under them, his eyes seem dull and sinister, remember this is practically the only game where we see Sephiroth before his madness for longer than the flashback, showing how disturbing a change Sephiroth had in personality and apparently physical looks.

!!!FridgeLogic
* Even if you can HandWave the fact that Zack is crushing his enemies with the blunt size of the sword (which is way worse than just cutting them), it's a stupid gimmick. Even for some of the long term fans, in fact, some are relieved that this apparently didn't translate to the VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIIRemake, and Cloud uses his sword normally. In fact, even if you put the same logic of the [[Manga/{{Berserk}} Dragonslayer]], it still had some sharpness.

to:

* look at Sephiroths' face during the entire game, his skin is clear, his eyes are bright blue/green, then look at the infamouse fire scene, his skin is pale, his eyes have shadows under them, his eyes seem dull and sinister, remember this is practically the only game where we see Sephiroth before his madness for longer than the flashback, showing how disturbing a change Sephiroth had in personality and apparently physical looks.

!!!FridgeLogic
* Even if you can HandWave the fact that Zack is crushing his enemies with the blunt size of the sword (which is way worse than just cutting them), it's a stupid gimmick. Even for some of the long term fans, in fact, some are relieved that this apparently didn't translate to the VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIIRemake, and Cloud uses his sword normally. In fact, even if you put the same logic of the [[Manga/{{Berserk}} Dragonslayer]], it still had some sharpness.
looks.
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* look at Sephiroths' face during the entire game, his skin is clear, his eyes are bright blue/green, then look at the infamouse fire scene, his skin is pale, his eyes have shadows under them, his eyes seem dull and sinister, remember this is practically the only game where we see Sephiroth before his madness for longer than the flashback, showing how disturbing a change Sephiroth had in personality and apparently physical looks.

to:

* look at Sephiroths' face during the entire game, his skin is clear, his eyes are bright blue/green, then look at the infamouse fire scene, his skin is pale, his eyes have shadows under them, his eyes seem dull and sinister, remember this is practically the only game where we see Sephiroth before his madness for longer than the flashback, showing how disturbing a change Sephiroth had in personality and apparently physical looks.looks.

!!!FridgeLogic
* Even if you can HandWave the fact that Zack is crushing his enemies with the blunt size of the sword (which is way worse than just cutting them), it's a stupid gimmick. Even for some of the long term fans, in fact, some are relieved that this apparently didn't translate to the VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIIRemake, and Cloud uses his sword normally. In fact, even if you put the same logic of the [[Manga/{{Berserk}} Dragonslayer]], it still had some sharpness.
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None


* When Cloud tells the story of Sephiroth's fall from grace in ''Final Fantasy VII'', he omits the presence of Genesis & his pushing Sephiroth into discovering the truth of his origins. Whilst it could simply be that Zack left that out when he told the story to Cloud, it wouldn't make sense for Zack to throw Sephiroth (Someone he considered a friend) under the bus by absolving Genesis of his role in the events; it ''would'' make sense, however, for Cloud's anger at Sephiroth over the subsequent destruction of Nibelheim to blur his recollection of the story & pin everything on Sephiroth.

to:

* When Cloud tells the story of Sephiroth's fall from grace in ''Final Fantasy VII'', he omits the presence of Genesis & his pushing Sephiroth into discovering the truth of his origins. Whilst it could simply be that Zack left that out when he told the story to Cloud, it wouldn't make sense for Zack to throw Sephiroth (Someone he considered a friend) under the bus by absolving Genesis of his role in the events; it ''would'' make sense, however, for Cloud's anger at Sephiroth over the subsequent destruction of Nibelheim to blur his recollection of the story & pin everything on Sephiroth.Sephiroth.

!!!FridgeHorror
* look at Sephiroths' face during the entire game, his skin is clear, his eyes are bright blue/green, then look at the infamouse fire scene, his skin is pale, his eyes have shadows under them, his eyes seem dull and sinister, remember this is practically the only game where we see Sephiroth before his madness for longer than the flashback, showing how disturbing a change Sephiroth had in personality and apparently physical looks.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

!!!FridgeBrilliance
* In both the original ''Final Fantasy VII'' & ''Advent Children'', the scene with Sephiroth in Nibelheim's flames had him emitting a Psycho Smirk. However, in this game, the Psycho Smirk is absent, and instead he looks slightly angered or remorseful. ''Crisis Core'' shows us the scene from Zack's perspective, whereas the two previous times were from Cloud's, and the retcon suddenly makes sense - Cloud is ''from'' Nibelheim, so he would see the man who burnt the town to the ground & killed everyone there (Including Cloud's ''mother'') as an unrepentant psycopath.
* When Cloud tells the story of Sephiroth's fall from grace in ''Final Fantasy VII'', he omits the presence of Genesis & his pushing Sephiroth into discovering the truth of his origins. Whilst it could simply be that Zack left that out when he told the story to Cloud, it wouldn't make sense for Zack to throw Sephiroth (Someone he considered a friend) under the bus by absolving Genesis of his role in the events; it ''would'' make sense, however, for Cloud's anger at Sephiroth over the subsequent destruction of Nibelheim to blur his recollection of the story & pin everything on Sephiroth.

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