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It is in the books, just a little less so


* AdaptationalAngstUpgrade: As elaborated in the Extended Edition, he follows in his brother's footsteps and tries to bring the Ring to Gondor due to massive angst over being the less-favored son. The Steward treating Faramir as TheUnfavourite was also added to justify this change.

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* AdaptationalAngstUpgrade: As elaborated in the Extended Edition, he follows in his brother's footsteps and tries to bring the Ring to Gondor due to massive angst over being the less-favored son. The Steward treating Faramir as TheUnfavourite was also added played up to justify this change.
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* DecompositeCharacter: In the third film he takes on a role very similar to that of the late Master of Laketown in the books [[spoiler:including similar circumstances surrounding his death.]]
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Per this thread


!![[center:'''Navigation:''' [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilm Main]] | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmTheFellowship The Fellowship]] | '''Men''' | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmElves Elves]] | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmTheCompany The Company]] | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmDwarves Dwarves]] | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmSauronsEvilForces Sauron's Evil Forces]] | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmIndependentVillains Independent Villains]] ([[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmSmaug Smaug]]) | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmOtherCharacters Other Characters]] ]]

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!![[center:'''Navigation:''' [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilm Main]] | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmTheFellowship The Fellowship]] | '''Men''' | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmElves Elves]] | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmTheCompany The Company]] | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmDwarves Dwarves]] | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmSauronsEvilForces Sauron's Evil Forces]] | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmIndependentVillains Independent Villains]] ([[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmSmaug Smaug]]) | [[Characters/MiddleEarthFilmOtherCharacters Other Characters]] ]]
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* HowTheMightyHaveFallen: Gondor's not as impressive as it used to be, thanks to a long time of general decay and incompetent management.


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* WhatYouAreInTheDark: When the subject of going to aid Gondor comes up, Theodon is pretty sour, raising the question of why Rohan should go to their aid when Gondor never came to theirs, a question no-one seems able to answer. When the beacons of Minas Tirith are lit, and he hears about it, there's a lengthy pause... and Theodon tells everyone to saddle up.


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* DefrostingIceQueen: Initially confrontational with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli, even threatening to kill Gimli apropos of nothing, but once Aragorn makes it clear they're not with Saruman and are simply looking for their friends, he gives them directions and some spare horses.
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* SmallRoleBigImpact: During Théoden’s exorcism, he aids the Fellowship immeasurably by allowing Gandalf to keep his staff and preventing the other Rhohirrims from interfering.

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* SmallRoleBigImpact: During Théoden’s exorcism, he aids the Fellowship immeasurably by allowing Gandalf to keep his staff and preventing the other Rhohirrims Rohirrims from interfering.
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* SmallRoleBigImpact: During Théoden’s exorcism, he aids the Fellowship immeasurably by allowing Gandalf to keep his staff and preventing the other Rhohirrims from interfering.
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* AdaptationalAngstUpgrade: In the book after being freed from Wormtongue's manipulations, Theoden, though clearly still upset and guilt-ridden, composed himself and made a quick recovery. Here Theoden's despair and grief are more emphasized and play a major part in his character arc, as he has to wrestle with his concerns and fears more. He eventually pulls out of it and becomes like his book self, but much of the second film is the road to him regaining his courage against the forces of evil.

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* AdaptationalAngstUpgrade: In the book after being freed from Wormtongue's manipulations, Theoden, Théoden, though clearly still upset and guilt-ridden, composed himself and made a quick recovery. Here Theoden's Théoden's despair and grief are more emphasized and play a major part in his character arc, as he has to wrestle with his concerns and fears more. He eventually pulls out of it and becomes like his book self, but much of the second film is the road to him regaining his courage against the forces of evil.
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Added DiffLines:

* AdaptationalAngstUpgrade: In the book after being freed from Wormtongue's manipulations, Theoden, though clearly still upset and guilt-ridden, composed himself and made a quick recovery. Here Theoden's despair and grief are more emphasized and play a major part in his character arc, as he has to wrestle with his concerns and fears more. He eventually pulls out of it and becomes like his book self, but much of the second film is the road to him regaining his courage against the forces of evil.
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Denethor's younger son and Boromir's little brother. Unlike his brother and father, Faramir does not enjoy combat or power politics, something that has led to him becoming TheUnfavourite of Denethor. However, despite his father's constant detractions, Faramir still tries his hardest to serve and protect Gondor from the invading forces of Mordor. Despite his distaste for violence, he is nevertheless an excellent soldier and captain of the Rangers of Ithilien, an order akin to the Rangers of the North, who ambush Gondor's enemies in its lost territory of Ithilien, as well as a deadly shot with a longbow.

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Denethor's younger son and Boromir's little brother. Unlike his brother and father, Faramir does not enjoy combat or power politics, something that has led to him becoming TheUnfavourite of Denethor. However, despite his father's constant detractions, Faramir still tries his hardest to serve and protect Gondor from the invading forces of Mordor. Despite his distaste for violence, he is nevertheless an excellent soldier and a very fine infantry officer, serving as the commanding captain of the Rangers of Ithilien, an order akin to the Rangers of the North, who ambush Gondor's enemies in its lost territory of Ithilien, as well as a deadly shot with a longbow.

Added: 1674

Changed: 1664

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*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, and Aragorn's male-line ancestor. Arvedui was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. It is unclear whether he was claiming to be King in his own right as the senior male-line descendant of Elendil alive in Middle-earth, or in right of his wife, or as King-consort. As Ondoher's surviving child, Fíriel should have become Gondor's Ruling Queen under Númenorean law, of which there had been three before the Downfall of the island. It is unclear whether her claim in this regard was ever seriously considered. As far as we know, Arvedui's claim was essentially identical to that of Aragorn, or stronger considering the timing and the close marriage link he and Fíriel represented between the two royal houses of the Dúnedain and of Elendil in Middle-earth. But Arvedui's claim was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the House of Anárion, and who also was an experienced, victorious, and famous commander. In delivering the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, the Kin-Strife, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

to:

*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, and Aragorn's male-line ancestor. Arvedui was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. It is unclear whether he was claiming to be King in his own right as the senior male-line descendant of Elendil alive in Middle-earth, or in right of his wife, or as King-consort. As Ondoher's surviving child, Fíriel should have become Gondor's Ruling Queen under Númenorean law, of which there had been three before the Downfall of the island. It is unclear whether her claim in this regard was ever seriously considered.
***
As far as we know, Arvedui's claim was essentially identical to that of Aragorn, or stronger considering the timing and the close marriage link he and Fíriel represented between the two royal houses of the Dúnedain and of Elendil in Middle-earth. But Arvedui's claim was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the House of Anárion, and who also was an experienced, victorious, and famous commander. In delivering the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, the Kin-Strife, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

Changed: 1665

Removed: 1674

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*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, and Aragorn's male-line ancestor. Arvedui was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. It is unclear whether he was claiming to be King in his own right as the senior male-line descendant of Elendil alive in Middle-earth, or in right of his wife, or as King-consort. As Ondoher's surviving child, Fíriel should have become Gondor's Ruling Queen under Númenorean law, of which there had been three before the Downfall of the island. It is unclear whether her claim in this regard was ever seriously considered.
*** As far as we know, Arvedui's claim was essentially identical to that of Aragorn, or stronger considering the timing and the close marriage link he and Fíriel represented between the two royal houses of the Dúnedain and of Elendil in Middle-earth. But Arvedui's claim was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the House of Anárion, and who also was an experienced, victorious, and famous commander. In delivering the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, the Kin-Strife, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

to:

*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, and Aragorn's male-line ancestor. Arvedui was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. It is unclear whether he was claiming to be King in his own right as the senior male-line descendant of Elendil alive in Middle-earth, or in right of his wife, or as King-consort. As Ondoher's surviving child, Fíriel should have become Gondor's Ruling Queen under Númenorean law, of which there had been three before the Downfall of the island. It is unclear whether her claim in this regard was ever seriously considered.
***
considered. As far as we know, Arvedui's claim was essentially identical to that of Aragorn, or stronger considering the timing and the close marriage link he and Fíriel represented between the two royal houses of the Dúnedain and of Elendil in Middle-earth. But Arvedui's claim was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the House of Anárion, and who also was an experienced, victorious, and famous commander. In delivering the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, the Kin-Strife, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

Added: 1675

Changed: 1697

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical to, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the House of Anárion and extremely popular. In delivering the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, the Kin-Strife, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

to:

*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who and Aragorn's male-line ancestor. Arvedui was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His It is unclear whether he was claiming to be King in his own right as the senior male-line descendant of Elendil alive in Middle-earth, or in right of his wife, or as King-consort. As Ondoher's surviving child, Fíriel should have become Gondor's Ruling Queen under Númenorean law, of which there had been three before the Downfall of the island. It is unclear whether her claim in this regard was ever seriously considered.
**** As far as we know, Arvedui's
claim was essentially identical to, to that of Aragorn, or even stronger than, that considering the timing and the close marriage link he and Fíriel represented between the two royal houses of Aragorn. the Dúnedain and of Elendil in Middle-earth. But it Arvedui's claim was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the House of Anárion Anárion, and extremely popular.who also was an experienced, victorious, and famous commander. In delivering the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, the Kin-Strife, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical to, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the House of Anárion and extremely popular. In announcing the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, the Kin-Strife, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

to:

*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical to, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the House of Anárion and extremely popular. In announcing delivering the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, the Kin-Strife, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical to, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the House of Anárion (and Ondoher's sister-son, or nephew). In announcing the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

to:

*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical to, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the House of Anárion (and Ondoher's sister-son, or nephew).and extremely popular. In announcing the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, the Kin-Strife, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical to, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the house of Anárion (and Ondoher's sister-son, or nephew). In announcing the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

to:

*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical to, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the house House of Anárion (and Ondoher's sister-son, or nephew). In announcing the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.
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*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the house of Anárion (and Ondoher's sister-son, or nephew). In announcing the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

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*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical, identical to, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the house of Anárion (and Ondoher's sister-son, or nephew). In announcing the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

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* AdaptationalVillainy: The film focuses far more on Isildur's failure to destroy the ring, and doesn't bring up his earlier (and later) accomplishments, with the lone exception of his cursing of the Dead Men of Dunharrow. Aragorn for example looks poorly on Isildur and wonders if he's as weak. In the books, Isildur is generally much more fondly remembered as Gondor's co-founder and for ordering Gondor and Arnor as high king following the war of the last alliance. His failure to destroy the ring is more treated as a tragic flaw in an otherwise truly great man.
** In ''Literature/UnfinishedTalesOfNumenorAndMiddleEarth'', the ''Disaster of the Gladden Fields'' paints him as sincerely regretting ever taking the Ring and he only uses as a last resort to escape after his son Elendur begs him. In the movies he's just runs off after being unhorsed.

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* AdaptationalVillainy: AdaptationalVillainy:
**
The film focuses far more on Isildur's failure to destroy the ring, and doesn't bring up his earlier (and later) accomplishments, with the lone exception of his cursing of the Dead Men of Dunharrow. Aragorn for example looks poorly on Isildur and wonders if he's as weak. In the books, Isildur is generally much more fondly remembered as Gondor's co-founder and for ordering Gondor and Arnor as high king following the war of the last alliance. His failure to destroy the ring is more treated as a tragic flaw in an otherwise truly great man.
** In ''Literature/UnfinishedTalesOfNumenorAndMiddleEarth'', the ''Disaster of the Gladden Fields'' paints him as sincerely regretting ever taking the Ring Ring, and he only uses as a last resort to escape after his son Elendur begs him. In the movies he's movies, he just runs uses the Ring to run off after being unhorsed.unhorsed and abandons his Men to take the literal arrows for him, plus in his account of seizing the Ring from Sauron he shows no regret whatsoever over his actions.
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*** Thus, in TA 3019, the year of the Return of the King, the political situation surrounding the return is dramatically ''more'' complicated than when Eärnil II was elected, or when the interregnum was established. Again, Aragorn's claim is essentially identical to one previously rejected, and at least some of those princes of the royal House of Anárion who never got to be king (or rather their descendants) still exist. The ascension of one with such a dubious claim or even entirely invalid claim to the throne of Gondor is, if anything, an invitation to civil war. It is unclear whether or not this occurred. Obviously, Aragorn is (or became) a king of wisdom to surpass even Eärnil II, so it may not have. But Tolkien did write a stub sequel, The New Shadow, which occurs 100 years after Aragorn's death and during the reign of his son, Eldarion, and involves a new "Satanic" cult. Tolkien's comments about the sequel suggest that Eldarion was not a particularly wise or good king. It is far from inconceivable that some princes of the House of Anárion remained disaffected that entire time, were been involved in this New Shadow, and saw their opportunity after the saintly Aragorn was safely dead.

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*** Thus, in TA 3019, the year of the Return of the King, the political situation surrounding the return is dramatically ''more'' complicated than when Eärnil II was elected, or when the interregnum was established. Again, Aragorn's claim is essentially identical to one previously rejected, and at least some of those princes of the royal House of Anárion who never got to be king (or rather their descendants) still exist. The ascension of one with such a dubious claim or even entirely invalid claim to the throne of Gondor is, if anything, an invitation to civil war. It is unclear whether or not this occurred. Obviously, Aragorn is (or became) a king of wisdom to surpass even Eärnil II, so it may not have. But Tolkien did write a stub sequel, The New Shadow, which occurs 100 years after Aragorn's death and during the reign of his son, Eldarion, and involves a new "Satanic" cult. Tolkien's comments about the sequel suggest that Eldarion was not a particularly wise or good king. It is far from inconceivable that some princes of the House of Anárion remained disaffected that entire time, were been involved in this New Shadow, and saw their opportunity after the saintly Aragorn was safely dead.
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*** The claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the house of Anárion (and Ondoher's sister-son, or nephew). In announcing the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.

to:

*** The specifics of this history are not addressed in the movie, and not really in the books either. But the claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the house of Anárion (and Ondoher's sister-son, or nephew). In announcing the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.
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Added DiffLines:

*** The claim referred to is that of Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain, who was married to Fíriel, daughter of Ondoher, King of Gondor. Arvedui made the claim after his own kingdom had collapsed entirely, and after Ondoher had been killed in action with his two sons, leaving no male heir. His claim was essentially identical, or even stronger than, that of Aragorn. But it was rejected in favor of Eärnil II, who was a senior prince of the house of Anárion (and Ondoher's sister-son, or nephew). In announcing the opinion of the Council on Arvedui's claim, the Steward Pelendur (and an ancestor of Denethor) established or codified the rule to which Denethor adhered in dismissing Aragorn's claim. At the time Arvedui's claim was heard, there was substantial danger of civil war between the supporters of the various claimants to the throne, and Gondor had (not that long ago as reckoned by lifespan of the Dúnedain) suffered from a terrible civil war, from which it never recovered until after the return of the King. In the event, Eärnil II was a great king. His son, Eärnur, was not. Eärnur was one of the greatest warriors of all time, but had little other virtue, and it was his folly in deciding to confront the Witch-king, and from which he never returned, which inflicted on Gondor its long interregnum until the return. When Eärnur did not return, his death not having been established, and the lack of any suitable candidate of as significant virtue as Eärnil II and the resultant risk of civil war if a king were elected again after such a short time, the interregnum became the policy of the Stewards. This was despite the existence of ''many'' princes of the male line of the House of Anárion in the Kingdom of Gondor.
*** Thus, in TA 3019, the year of the Return of the King, the political situation surrounding the return is dramatically ''more'' complicated than when Eärnil II was elected, or when the interregnum was established. Again, Aragorn's claim is essentially identical to one previously rejected, and at least some of those princes of the royal House of Anárion who never got to be king (or rather their descendants) still exist. The ascension of one with such a dubious claim or even entirely invalid claim to the throne of Gondor is, if anything, an invitation to civil war. It is unclear whether or not this occurred. Obviously, Aragorn is (or became) a king of wisdom to surpass even Eärnil II, so it may not have. But Tolkien did write a stub sequel, The New Shadow, which occurs 100 years after Aragorn's death and during the reign of his son, Eldarion, and involves a new "Satanic" cult. Tolkien's comments about the sequel suggest that Eldarion was not a particularly wise or good king. It is far from inconceivable that some princes of the House of Anárion remained disaffected that entire time, were been involved in this New Shadow, and saw their opportunity after the saintly Aragorn was safely dead.
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** In ''Literature/UnfinishedTales'', the ''Disaster of the Gladden Fields'' paints him as sincerely regretting ever taking the Ring and he only uses as a last resort to escape after his son Elendur begs him. In the movies he's just runs off after being unhorsed.

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** In ''Literature/UnfinishedTales'', ''Literature/UnfinishedTalesOfNumenorAndMiddleEarth'', the ''Disaster of the Gladden Fields'' paints him as sincerely regretting ever taking the Ring and he only uses as a last resort to escape after his son Elendur begs him. In the movies he's just runs off after being unhorsed.
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* UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom: He was the one who pushed Boromir to bring the ring back to Gondor to use as a weapon against Sauron; of course, he can hardly be blamed for the Ring's corrupting influence, but he planted the seeds that the Ring later exploited, which arguably resulted in the Fellowship breaking.

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* UnwittingInstigatorOfDoom: He was the one who pushed Boromir to bring the ring back to Gondor to use as a weapon against Sauron; of course, he can hardly be blamed for the Ring's corrupting influence, but he planted the seeds that the Ring later exploited, which exploited; namely that only the Ring could give them the power to defeat Sauron. This desperation he instilled in Boromir arguably resulted in the Fellowship breaking.breaking.
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--> '''Denethor:''' [[spoiler:NOOOO! YOU WILL NOT TAKE MY SON FROM ME!]]

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* AdaptationalWimp: Not to the extent of Denethor, but compared to the book, where he was a wise and brave king overall, the film trilogy still makes Theoden a very flawed monarch who sorely needs the advice and action of Gandalf to save the day. In the Extended Edition, he repeatedly underestimates Saruman's forces and initiative, and his very decision to move his people to Helm's Deep is at least entertained to be a mistake, which he realizes once he hears the true size of the Uruk-Hai army. He's also presented as mentally fragile, to the point he starts losing touch with reality while getting his armor fitted for battle, and even freezes of despair when they are trapped in the last chamber, needing Aragorn to stir him up for what they believe to be the last ride.



* TheChainsOfCommand: In the Extended Edition, he tries to lift people's morale at Helm's Deep with chances which Aragorn notes to be false. Theoden's reaction, where he angrily reminds Aragorn a king's duty, implied he was very aware of it and was only giving much needed motivational lies.



* DemonicPossession: Where the books just suggest he's being addled by Wormtongue's manipulations, in the films he's outright used as a puppet by Saruman, who even speaks through him at one point.

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* DemonicPossession: Where the books just suggest he's being depressed and addled by Wormtongue's manipulations, in the films he's outright used as a puppet by Saruman, who even speaks directly through him at one point.point.
* DeterminedDefeatist: Not all the time, but he has a quite grim view of things and seems much better at keeping up his men' morale than his own, even if he is usually ready to fight to the end. The Extended Edition adds many scenes of him doubting himself and believing they are embarking on a suicide mission.



-->'''Théoden''': My body is broken. You have to let me go...I go to my fathers, in whose mighty company I shall not now be ashamed.

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-->'''Théoden''': My body is broken. You have to let me go... I go to my fathers, in whose mighty company I shall not now be ashamed.



** Théoden probably shouldn't have asked if an army of Uruk-Hai was the only thing Saruman had in store, and he's left mouth agape when Helm's Deep is breeched by a massive explosion.

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** Théoden probably shouldn't have asked if an army of Uruk-Hai was the only thing Saruman had in store, and he's left mouth agape when Helm's Deep is breeched by a massive explosion. The Extended Edition adds a previous one when he learns the Uruk-Hai number around 10,000.
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* AdaptationalBadass: In the books, Sauron's defeat was a threefold effort. Here, Isildur does it single-handedly.

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* AdaptationalBadass: Downplayed. In the books, Sauron's defeat was a threefold effort. Here, Isildur does it single-handedly.single-handedly, although it's made clear it was a lucky shot that Isildur's defiant swing managed to cut off the Ring from Sauron's outstretched hand.
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Rated M For Manly is about whole works, not individual characters


* RatedMForManly: Oh yeah.
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* NoManOfWomanBorn: One of the most famous examples of this.

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* NoManOfWomanBorn: One The Witch King declares that no man can kill him, and she takes off helmet to show that she is "no man", being, of course, a ''woman'', but she is is still part of the "race of Men". She also has an assist from Merry, who is not a ''man'' but a male hobbit. Regardless, she is one of the most famous examples of this.
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** The filmmakers actually had a point of criticism regarding Faramir in the books and one reason for why they changed his characterization in the film: you've just spent nearly two whole books/movies building up the Ring as the most evil object in existence, and that it exerts a particularly corrupting influence on the souls of Men. Now suddenly Tolkien introduces a character, a man, who is apparently so naturally incorruptible that he declares, "I would not pick it up, though it lay by the wayside." It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Having Faramir be sorely tempted by the Ring is more consistent with the story thus far.

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** The filmmakers were actually had a point critical of criticism regarding the depiction of Faramir in the books and for one reason for why they changed his characterization in the film: simple reason: you've just spent nearly two whole books/movies building up the One Ring as the most evil object in existence, and that it existence which exerts a particularly corrupting influence on the souls of Men. Now suddenly Tolkien introduces a character, a man, who is apparently so naturally incorruptible that he declares, "I would not pick it up, though it lay by the wayside." It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Having Faramir be sorely tempted by the Ring is more consistent with the story thus far.
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While the ancestor who made the claim was connected through marriage, Aragorn himself, being a descendent, would have a blood connection


** His refusal to recognize Aragorn as King of Gondor is presented as an act of pure spite or power-hungriness. In the books, he never mentions Aragorn until just before his death. More generally, his denial of Aragorn's claim comes from ancient Gondorian law, specifically that the Council of Gondor had long ago declared that only a member of the House of Anárion (Isildur's younger brother) could be King of Gondor. As Aragorn was Isildur's heir, he was therefore ineligible. Of course, Denethor was actually wrong, as Aragorn was the heir of both Isildur and Anárion, although he was the latter only by marriage.

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** His refusal to recognize Aragorn as King of Gondor is presented as an act of pure spite or power-hungriness. In the books, he never mentions Aragorn until just before his death. More generally, his denial of Aragorn's claim comes from ancient Gondorian law, specifically that the Council of Gondor had long ago declared that only a member of the House of Anárion (Isildur's younger brother) could be King of Gondor. As Aragorn was Isildur's heir, he was therefore ineligible. Of course, Denethor was actually wrong, as Aragorn was the heir of both Isildur and Anárion, although he was the latter only by marriage.through a female line whose claim had previously been rejected.

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