Line #38 YMMV/Persona


1	For the other Persona related YMMV subpages:
2
3	* ''YMMV/{{Persona 1}}''
4	* ''YMMV/Persona2''
5	* ''YMMV/Persona3''
6	* ''YMMV/Persona4''
7	* ''YMMV/Persona5''
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11	* AwesomenessWithdrawal: While the games are very long and have a lot to do, there's always a feeling of sadness that comes over watching the credits. It's often known by fans as "post-Persona depression".
12	* BetterAsALetsPlay: The games, especially ''3'', ''4'', and ''5'' are very popular Let's Play games in the JRPG genre, due to being very long and very story driven. It would be very easy to say that a lot of fans of the games never actually played the games themselves and simply watched a Let's Play of it. The main reason people prefer to watch ''Persona'' games rather than play them is because of the "Life Sim" portion of them, whereas the player has to choose what daily activity the main character will do. People watch other people play it because they either don't have time to do it themselves, the amount of choices is overwhelming for them, they outright dislike it as fluff to trudge through to get to the next dungeon, or they want to see how the choices/time management of the content creator play out.
13	* BrokenBase:
14	** Since the NewbieBoom especially thanks to TheNewTwenties ports, there has been a clearer divide between players that play at their own pace and players that prefer to use guides (especially for max Social Link/Confidant runs in the modern games). The former is tired of [[ApathyKilledTheCat constant questions for guides including for very obvious solutions]] and considers use of any guide making playthroughs unfun. The latter argues that the games have plenty of GuideDangIt moments that reduce the fun factor especially for accessing the (usually-advertised) bonus content that certain players would rather not waste another 100 hours to reach and not every player has 100+ hours to dedicate to a single video game because of jobs, other matters to handle, etc. and thus would rather experience everything in a single playthrough or two (considering NewGamePlus-exclusive content).
15	** There has been a debate among fans regarding the direction of the protagonist going forward. One side prefers how it is with HelloInsertNameHere, the protagonist being mostly silent, and varying tones of dialogue options, all of which fit the role-playing aspect. The other side would rather have the name entry taken out entirely and the protagonist's character be fully defined and properly participating in the story, considering the subseries' own BrokenBase over CanonName (except for the ''2'' duology where the names are clearly established in-game to begin with) and said side's feel that the current implementation poses more problems in storytelling due to {{Narm}} induced by the sillier player-inputted names and jarring interactions caused by the protagonist never speaking outside of dialogue options, voiced one-liners, or VoiceGrunting. Naturally, the former camp thinks the latter's idea as unfair to the players already used to this system, while the latter thinks the former is part of the writing and enjoyment problem.
16	** Whether the next ''Persona'' mainline game should keep the high school setting or take place in college/workplace (or just basically have all main characters be adults entirely) is up for debate with heaps of ValuesDissonance. Some conclude that it would be impractical to have the calendar system for a working adult protagonist given Japan's notoriously long work hours, but others argue that having an adult protagonist would be a fresh approach for the series. The same controversy applies for whether to keep confining the main country location to strictly Japan or take place in another country entirely.
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18	* CommonKnowledge:
19	** Nyarlathotep is commonly stated to be the BigBad of the entire series by the fandom, even though in the grand scheme of things his actual level of impact is minimal at best. He served as the main antagonist of the ''VideoGame/Persona2'' duology, and after that he has not been seen since, in spite of [[EpilepticTrees constant theories about his return in future games]]. And while yes he is the embodiment of humanity's darkness and directly competes against [[BigGood Philemon]], he's not really that much different from any other ''Persona'' BigBad, being an AnthropomorphicPersonification of the negative aspects of humanity that intends harm on the world, with the only thing he has above them is [[spoiler:successfully [[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt ending the world]] at the end of ''Innocent Sin'' (And even then, he just wins that battle, not the war)]]. Hell, in his debut back in ''[[VideoGame/{{Persona 1}} Persona 1]]'', he was nothing more than ''a regular Persona'' used by the actual villain of the game, Takahisa Kandori, and the ''Persona 2'' duology just {{Retcon}}'d him as using Kandori during those events, which makes Nyarlatothep the GreaterScopeVillain of the first game. Still, Nyarlatothep hasn’t been seen since ''Eternal Punishment'', so while he’s technically the most reoccurring villain, his presumed status of being the BigBad of the entire series is dubious at best.
20	** There are six mainline Persona games, not five. ''Persona 2'' actually consists of two games.
21	* CompleteMonster: See [[Monster/ShinMegamiTensei here for a page of the most despicable villains in this sub-series]].
22	* CrackPairing: There is a trend where fans ironically ship a very unlikely pair of adult characters in the subseries, with the most popular being [[VideoGame/Persona4 Adachi]] x [[VideoGame/Persona5 Sae]].
23	* FanNickname:
24	** Mara is called "Dick Chariot", it's self-explanatory.
25	** The protagonist of ''Persona 3'' is commonly referred to as Door-kun.
26	* FandomEnragingMisconception: Referring to ''Persona 3'', ''4'', and ''5'' as "the ''Persona'' series" is sure to hit a sore spot among more hardcore fans, given how ''Persona 1'' and both ''Persona 2'' games tend to be forgotten while the more recent titles get tons of attention and spin-offs.
27	* FandomRivalry:
28	** With ''Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure,'' due to both having a spirit like entity each character can summon that represents their "true selves", and in ''Manga/StardustCrusaders,'' having an Arcana theme. The biggest example is the rivalry between ''Manga/DiamondIsUnbreakable'' and ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}}'', due to them having similar premises (high-school-aged protagonists trying to solve a murder in a small town, and at least one of the murder victims was hung from a telephone wire).
29	** With the [[Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei main series]], due to its popularity overshadowing it and everything else Atlus makes. There are those who actively dislike the spin-off, accusing it of watered-down gameplay and thematic compromise. Simultaneously, some fans are ''only'' fans of the spin-off and dislike the main series for its stagnant, recycled "order vs. chaos and both are jerks" plots, flatter characters that contrast heavily with the spin-off's heavily character-focused narratives, and its archaic difficulty and gameplay. There ''are'' those who enjoy both, but the two series are different enough from one another that there's less overlap than one would think.
30	** With the fandom itself, there's a split of ''Persona 1/2'' fans vs. ''3'' and beyond. Katsura Hashino took over as the series director starting with the fourth game, retooling the series both gameplay and tone-wise in the process. While ''Persona 3'' contained a few easter eggs to the early games, it was essentially a SoftReboot of the franchise. The side effect of this is all the spin-offs moving forward draw from these modern ''Persona'' games leading to a rivalry of the fanbase.
31	** Additionally, even among modern fans, there's a divide between those who like ''3'' and those who like ''4'' and/or ''5''. From a gameplay perspective, the former camp believes that the fourth and fifth games dumbed down the mechanics too much, while the latter camp supports the addition of AntiFrustrationFeatures and other improvements. From a story perspective, the former camp prefers the darker story and more focus on CharacterDevelopment in the story (e.g. having Persona evolutions be tied to in-story development), while the latter camp prefers the Investigation Team and Phantom Thieves being tighter-knit than S.E.E.S. was, and doesn't like the inability to do Social Links for male S.E.E.S. members in the third game, which they believe results in the characters getting less development than they should.
32	* {{Fanon}}:
33	** People arguing that the canon love interest for ''every'' "Fool" bearing protagonist is whoever happens to be represented by the Lovers Arcana in their respective game.
34	** The debate over whether or not there even ''is'' a canon love interest qualifies as this.
35	* FridgeHorror: The Social Link system introduced in ''Persona 3'' can easily be read as you deliberately cultivating "friendships" solely for the purpose of amassing more power for yourself. This is toned down in ''Persona 5''; most of your Confidants befriend you with the explicit understanding that you're getting some material benefit out of the relationship- for example, Sojiro asks you to help out at his café in order to earn your keep, and offers to teach you how to make coffee as a perk- and a throwaway line by Morgana indicates that he is aware of Social Links and has no issue with it.
36	* FriendlyFandoms:
37	** Though there have been spats of a FandomRivalry as noted above, the fandoms of the ''Persona'' series have started to grow tight with ''Manga/JoJosBizarreAdventure'' due to several similarities, especially since both series involve {{Fighting Spirit}}s but take the concept in very distinct directions. Fans of both series also love to point out similarities between ''Persona 4'' and ''[[Manga/JojosBizarreAdventureDiamondIsUnbreakable Diamond is Unbreakable]]'' involving a team of high school students hunting down a serial killer while ''Persona 5'' and ''[[Manga/JojosBizarreAdventureGoldenWind Golden Wind]]'' both involve a group of criminals who aim to improve situations for others.
38	** The ''Persona'' and ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' fanbases got along following [[VideoGame/Persona5 Joker's]] addition to ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosUltimate''; the ''Persona'' fanbase was excited to see representation in a major fighting game series, and the ''Smash'' side have gotten [[GatewaySeries interested]] into the ''Persona'' games.
39	** As noted above, there are hardcore those who love one but not the other, but the general majority of ''Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei'' fans are also fans of ''Persona''[[note]]although due to Persona's mainstream popularity, the opposite isn't as common[[/note]], particularly more casual fans. Furthermore, most mainline fans got into the franchise through ''Persona'', and a number of entries like [[VideoGame/{{DevilSurvivor}} the Devil Survivor duology]] and ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'' draw elements from both ''Persona'' and mainline SMT.
40	** In TheNewTens, when both series achieved significant {{Newbie Boom}}s, fans of ''Persona'' have started to grow fond of ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' and vice versa, because both series are some sort of RPG, both series center on ThePowerOfFriendship and ThePowerOfLove as {{Central Theme}}s, and both series are considered pioneers of RelationshipValues in video games. ''Persona'' series fans were particularly fond of ''VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses'', given that it seems to take several hallmark elements from the ''Persona'' series such as the school setting, time management life sim elements, and TarotMotifs while seamlessly working them into ''Fire Emblem''[='=]s established aesthetic. It helps that both franchises are represented in the aforementioned ''Super Smash Bros.'' as of ''Ultimate'', and ''Fire Emblem'' fans and ''Persona'' fans alike welcomed the idea of the two series sharing a console once ''Persona 3 Portable'', ''Persona 4 Golden'', and ''Persona 5 Royal'' all became multi-platform. The series got additional respect from ''Fire Emblem'' fans once Katsura Hashino revealed that ''Persona 3'' [[https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/persona-director-reveals-persona-3-saved-atlus-from-collapse-2274054/ saved the series (and Atlus as a whole)]] thanks to their efforts to make it more accessible to mainstream audiences, which is exactly what ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' accomplished for its own series seven years later.
41	* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: The games managing to earn international acclaim, especially since the release of ''Persona 5'' (not that the previous games do not apply, they just remained relatively niche outside Japan until then), is obvious enough, but an interesting case is from the modding community which is dominated by the Western fanbase. Japanese fans may take interest in the {{Game Mod}}s and ask for permission to convert them to their regional version. The most notable example is the "Manual Skill Inheritance Mod" for the UsefulNotes/{{Steam}} version of ''Persona 3 Portable'', which began in English only before it got translated into multiple languages and made the Eastern fanbase rejoice considering ''Persona 3'''s [[Memes/{{Persona}} notoriety as the "OX game."]]
42	* HilariousInHindsight: ''Persona 3'' introduces the series's take on TheGrimReaper, who dual-wields guns. Guess [[VideoGame/{{Overwatch}} what later property]] features a [[TheDreaded dreaded-in-universe]] character with "Reaper" in his name that dual-wields guns?
43	* MoralEventHorizon: See [[MoralEventHorizon/ShinMegamiTensei here]].
44	* MorePopularSpinoff: The ''Persona'' games are the most popular commercially and critically acclaimed about of the whole ''Shin Megami Tensei'' franchise, specifically the games from ''Persona 3'' onward, with each new main installment surpassing the previous one in both sales and critical acclaim. ''Persona 5'' in particular has become Atlus's best-selling game ever, and its main character Joker is a [[GuestFighter DLC fighter]] in ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosUltimate''. It's to the point that during ''Shin Megami Tensei'''s 30th anniversary, it was pretty much all ''Persona'' content with the main SMT series barely even being acknowledged.
45	* MyRealDaddy: Kouji Okada was the original director of the series, with ''Persona'' originally envisioned as a more accessible alternative to the other highly complex ''Shin Megami Tensei'' games. However, Katsura Hashino not only gave the series its own identity, but helped it eclipse everything else Atlus would put out before and since, as his direction was responsible for adding the popular Social Link RelationshipValues system, the [[LifeSimulationGame life sim]] segments between dungeon outings, and the limitation of non-protagonist party members to their starting and ultimate Personas.
46	* NeverLiveItDown: [[NeverLiveItDown/{{Persona}} Has its own page]].
47	* SelfImposedChallenge: One of the most common ones present in just about each game is the "[[StarterMon Starter]] Persona run". The idea behind it is that you have to beat the game using only your starting Persona, meaning you can't switch to any other Persona. This generally involves using each games various methods of powering up Persona's outside of fusion to give them skills that remove their AchillesHeel, buff their stats to the limit, and give them endgame skills, such as Skill Cards, Strengthening via the Velvet Room, or using some form of LoopholeAbuse to empower them by the end game. It is possible to do this depending on the game, but it tends to be restricted to NewGamePlus because of the limitations of some games making this run harder than others.
48	* SequelDisplacement: How many people knew of ''Persona before'' the [[VideoGame/Persona3 fourth]], [[VideoGame/Persona4 fifth]], or [[VideoGame/Persona5 sixth]] games? For that matter, it's rare to meet a Western ''Shin Megami Tensei'' fan that wasn't introduced to the series by those three games. This was taken even further when ''VideoGame/Persona5'' achieved mainstream success. ''VideoGame/Persona3'' and ''VideoGame/Persona4'' ''were'' popular [[EasternRPG JRPGs]], but [[EasternRPG JRPGs]] as a whole are a rather niche genre in the West.
49	* ShipsThatPassInTheNight: Despite them not even being from the same game, or even having the opportunity to meet each other, [[VideoGame/Persona4 Adachi]] x [[VideoGame/Persona5 Sae]] has a rather strong following.
50	* SubbingVersusDubbing: Despite both East and West versions being good in language and voice acting aspects, the fandom is divided into those that like both, some that prefer the full original Japanese for what the games really are, some that prefer Japanese VA but localized text for convenience while preserving the original voice, some that prefer dub only, and some that prefer fan translations both for convenience and full context preservation. It does not help that the entire thing is a BrokenBase caused by either voice acting (Teddie from ''VideoGame/Persona4'' being a common contention), {{Bowdlerization}} that often results in DubInducedPlotHole or LostInTranslation (or petty censorship especially caused by social media outrage, which Atlus West are more than happy to obey), {{Woolseyism}} prone to the same results, and the games' demographic. The East (including the southern Asian regions, where the games are not as niche as in the West but not as big in popularity as in Japan) tend to not tolerate the Western changes to the games, while the West is again a BrokenBase because common players play dubbed for the most convenience points especially helped by stellar voice acting in most cases, while those that appreciate the original Japanese version either go the popular route of nabbing an undub/fan-translated ROM, mod the games themselves for the same result, or learn Japanese.
51	* ValuesDissonance: The view on the protagonist differs greatly between the East and the West. In Japan, along with South Korea, China and Southeast Asia, the silent protagonists from ''Persona 3'', ''4'', and ''5'' frequently ranks first place in official character surveys, which can seem baffling to the audience in North America and Europe. This is because Easterners simply see it as a way to role play as a defined hero like any other typical JRPG, with how they pick the dialogue choices and progress through gameplay or schedule being a reflection of these players, combined with experiencing the hero's journey while Westerners are [[BrokenBase divided]] on this idea, and consider a SelfInsert being a fully-defined character by the player that makes the choices for the character.

Context YMMV / Persona