Line #28 YMMV/KISS


1	* AudienceAlienatingEra: For ''many'', the 1979-1981 period, from ''Dynasty'' to ''Music from "The Elder"''. To be specific...
2	** ''Dynasty'': It's unarguable that it was perhaps the biggest commercially successful studio album in the entire history of the band (if one ignores the ''Alive'' live albums), but what most people don't know is that, in the long run, ''Dynasty'' itself ''almost destroyed the band when it was first released''. With [[NewSoundAlbum the shift to the far more mainstream disco genre]], although the album proved to be a commercial success, it began alienating the fans that had followed the band since its early beginnings, resulting in less-than-sold-out arenas and stadiums when the band went on tour, something unheard of when it came to KISS concerts and their particular fame.[[note]]In fact, they ''lost'' money during this tour, as they had greatly expanded their stage set, resulting in each concert costing no less than ''ONE million dollars each''![[/note]] In addition, KISS's popularity amongst the younger age set began to backfire; when you're in your teens, it's simply not considered "cool" to like the same things your kid brother does.
3	** ''Unmasked'': After promising a return to the heavier sound they were known for they proceeded to release ''Unmasked'', which was a critical flop due to the still present "pop sound". While the band had big hit in Australia with "Shandi" and a successful tour there, their situation back in the USA became even more precarious. To make matters worse, the following album was...
4	** The (''in'')famous ''Music from "The Elder"'': The band's ConceptAlbum proved to be a catastrophic commercial ''and'' critical flop which lead to the outright cancellation of the album's tour, once again a first for any KISS release.
5	** ''Creatures of the Night'', while successful critically due to being the heaviest KISS album yet and featuring the band's strongest songs in some time, didn't fare any better on the commercial and on the touring side of things (many people also attribute this to two founding members, lead guitarist Ace Frehley and drummer Peter Criss leaving the band around the same time). While the band did have a successful mini-tour in Brazil playing stadiums, their American tour was a disaster; Paul later remarked that during one meagerly-attended show, he tossed a guitar pick into the crowd, only to have it go over the heads of everyone there and land on the floor.
6	** ...And ''finally'', they remove their makeup and released ''Lick It Up,'' which didn't chart very high but was still certified gold within a few months of release. This is largely considered attributable to the publicity generated by the band's decision to do away with the makeup and costumes concurrent with the album's release. Then ''Animalize'' was released, went gold quickly, and the band's finances were back at normal (excluding contractual issues with Vinnie Vincent and health issues with Mark St. John), although sell-out concerts would still elude them for one more album, finally going to back to their usual tour success with ''Crazy Nights''.
7	* AwardSnub: Once they finally got into the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame, it was only the four founders. They refused to perform at the induction because of this, with [[https://time.com/55425/kiss-gene-simmons-interview-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame/ Simmons noting]] both that the Grateful Dead had all members ''and'' a non-performing lyricist, and Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer have been on the band longer than Ace Frehley and Peter Criss.
8	* AwesomeEgo: While the truth of Gene Simmons' self-centered personality has been a turn-off for some fans, others see it as a charming extension of the band's bombastic presentation, especially given that despite how unabashed he is about it, Simmons is [[AtLeastIAdmitIt pretty earnest about it]] all the same, which makes it [[LoveToHate hard to be completely mad with him]].
9	* BaseBreakingCharacter:
10	** Gene Simmons: Is he the single manliest, [[EvilIsCool coolest-looking]] and most badass and LeadBassist ''ever'', or a greedy [[ItsAllAboutMe megalomaniac]] [[RatedMForMoney who wastes his money]] [[TheMerch on everything he finds?]] Or is he a little bit of both?
11	** Singer and Thayer after they took Criss and Frehley's makeup.
12	** Heck, any lead guitarist not named Ace Frehley to an extent. Vinnie Vincent in particular. Vinnie's contributions are generally liked, but his playing style is ''wildly'' divisive; he's either an incredibly original and unique guitarist who was forced down by the rest of the band, or he's an atonal, utterly tuneless hack who can't play anything that isn't an aimless, chromatic mess with gratuitous whammy bar abuse (which wasn't really that pronounced during his time in Music/{{KISS}} when Gene and Paul had final say over his solos, but his work in the Vinnie Vincent Invasion, when he had complete control over his playing style, is a different story).
13	* BrokenBase:
14	** "I Was Made for Loving You" tends to elicit strong reactions; KISS fans often condemn it as a trendy cash-in on the {{Disco}} movement, but on the other hand, it's frequently their top song on Apple Music. Also incredibly popular in areas like the UK and Germany where the Disco backlash never happened.
15	** For a small section of their more hardcore '80s and '90s-era fans, the reunion and the return of the makeup is looked on quite negatively, specifically because the reunion meant beloved guitarist Bruce Kulick had to leave, and because Kiss stopped evolving musically, since all three albums they've released since all sound exactly like their classic '70s-era records.
16	* ChorusOnlySong: Hard to find someone who isn't a hard-core fan[[note]]or who wasn't a teenager in 1975[[/note]] who knows the verses for "Rock and Roll All Nite".
17	* CoveredUp:
18	** "New York Groove", which was released as a single from Ace's solo album in 1978 and became a big hit (the only real hit from ''any'' of the Music/KissSoloAlbums) was written by Russ Ballard of Argent and was originally a major UK hit in 1975 for the GlamRock band Hello.
19	** Speaking of Argent, they also did the original version of the PowerBallad "God Gave Rock 'n' Roll to You". When KISS covered it, they added a "[=II=]" to the title, possibly to differentiate the two songs more clearly, as KISS' version has completely different lyrics except for the chorus.
20	* CriticalDissonance: Critics tend to really HATE this band. Doesn't stop it from selling tons of stuff.
21	** Specifically, the various editions of the ''Rolling Stone Album Guide'' give good ratings to ''Alive!'' and ''Destroyer''... and that's about it.
22	* CreatorWorship: ''Nobody'' dislikes Eric Carr. Not only is he considered an amazingly gifted musician, but he's also considered by far the nicest person in the band. Both Ace Frehley and Peter Criss, who left the band on bad terms (especially Peter, who Eric directly replaced) paid their respects after he passed, and he's about the only person Gene Simmons has never said anything even remotely negative about.
23	* CrossesTheLineTwice: It seems to have always been Gene's modus operandi; in particular, his interview with NPR’s Terry Gross is a prime example.
24	* EnsembleDarkHorse:
25	** Their second drummer Eric Carr is universally beloved by the fanbase thanks for being a ''very'' NiceGuy, especially in the wake of his tragic death in late 1991.
26	** Ace is probably the fan favorite. Having the best 1978 solo album helps. Not to mention he's probably the only member actually ''recognized'' for being especially talented.
27	** Mark St. John after his death in 2007 sort of became this, although the debate of who's the best KISS guitarist will go around forever. Most fans universally agree he was a ''DAMN'' good guitar player, and perhaps the most technically skilled guitarist KISS ever had (aside from maybe Vinnie Vincent, whose style was far more divisive).
28	** Finding a Kiss fan who ''doesn't'' like Bruce Kulick is easier said than done. While he maybe wasn't a memorable character like Ace or a top-tier shredder like Vinnie, he's widely regarded as a great mix between technical skill and reliability, giving the band a stable lineup after going through three guitarists in the two years preceding. After Ace left for the final time, many fans hoped for Kulick to return and finally be given his own persona (him and St. John were the only ones that never wore the makeup), though ultimately Tommy Thayer filled the spot.
29	* EpicRiff:
30	** You know the house is gonna come down when "Detroit Rock City" and "Rock and Roll All Nite" (and others!) start playing.
31	** According to the ''Decibel Geek Podcast'', this is also the case with "I Had Enough" from ''Animalize''. The reason why it's not played in concerts anymore is that, apparently, the band and Bruce Kulick in particular end up completely exhausted by the end of it.
32	* EvenBetterSequel: ''Alive!'' was the band's mainstream breakthrough, but ''Alive II'' is considered even better. It sold four times as much and contains longtime live staples like "Detroit Rock City", "Shout It Out Loud", "Love Gun", and "God of Thunder", along with the hit single "Beth".
33	* FanonDiscontinuity:
34	** The ''Music from "The Elder"'' album sounded so much unlike anything KISS had released to that point that fans and critics alike universally panned it, and sales were so poor that anything related to the album was instantly scrapped. The band quickly moved forward and forgot about the whole fiasco as fast as possible.
35	*** RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: Sorta. One of the songs in the album, "A World Without Heroes", entered their ''MTV Unplugged'' following a vote-in, and in a concert in Australia in 2004, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B72y_iGy3vA they tried to play ''I''... but Gene had long forgotten the lyrics]]. It is now a collector piece, and manage to have its supporters. (''Unmasked'' being the remaining main competitor for "worst studio KISS album".)
36	** What is this "I Was Made For Loving You" of which you speak? KISS has never, ever done a disco song! (Unless, of course, you're using Apple Music, where it's very often their top-rated single.)
37	* SugarWiki/FunnyMoments: Gene Simmons has recounted how, when they were performing in Japan, security would forcibly end the concert if anyone acted out during the songs, but did nothing if it happened between them. So while the songs were playing, the crowd would be stock-still and dead silent. When the song ''ended'', quote, "The only thing missing was a Buddhist monk setting himself on fire." And then the crowd would ''immediately'' quiet down as the next song started.
38	* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: "Dynasty" and "Unmasked" is where many around the world thought Kiss jumped the shark. However, both albums are regarded as classics in Australia.
39	** The United Kingdom absolutely loved "Crazy Crazy Nights", being their highest charting hit over there at #4. In fact, the U.K. is where Kiss saw the most success during the non-makeup years.
40	** In the early 1980s (prior to the unmasked years) KISS' popularity had severely declined all over the world... except for Japan, New Zealand, and Australia, where they remained as popular as they were in the 1970s.
41	** The song "Shandi" was a huge hit in Australia, and to this day the band always performs it during live performances in that country.[[note]]If you're watching or listening to a KISS show and hear "Shandi," you can almost guarantee it was recorded Down Under.[[/note]] In the United States, "Shandi" is a mostly-forgotten song and only reached 47 on the Billboard charts at the time of its release.
42	** "I Was Made For Loving You", the {{disco}} song that just about everyone in the USA pretends has never existed, is the most popular KISS song in Germany by far to the point that many don't even know any other KISS songs.
43	* HilariousInHindsight:
44	** In TheNineties, Tommy Thayer is in a KISS tribute band called "Cold Gin" and took the role of Ace Frehley. And guess which member he replaces (makeup included)?
45	** Mark St. John liked to tell a tale about how he was introduced to Vinnie Vincent one night and was told that he was "KISS' new lead guitarist." Mark St. John's reply? "KISS, what a shitty band!" Fast forward two albums later...
46	** Minor one, the album title ''Unmasked'' became funny when KISS would become unmasked for real 3 years later by taking off their makeup.
47	* JerkassWoobie:
48	** Gene Simmons, of all people. Start with having polio as a child, growing up dirt-poor with his Holocaust-survivor mother, and moving to a whole new country, where everything is different, and nobody speaks your language.
49	** Vinnie Vincent. The man has been unreliable and an ass to both musical collaborators and fans alike, but has also had a long history of depression, legal issues, one wife of his being ''murdered'' and the other one drinking herself to death, and dealing with the backlash of replacing the universally-beloved Ace Frehley.
50	** Paul Stanley. While his attitude towards other people, former band members especially, is incredibly divisive, he does acknowledge this is a result of his rough upbringing, being teased for being Jewish, and mercilessly tormented because he was born with Microtia, a misshapen ear that he was in addition unable to hear from.
51	* NarmCharm: Gene's cover of "When You Wish Upon a Star" from his first solo album. On paper, it sounds like it shouldn't work at all, but his genuinely passionate performance and the lush orchestral score make it worth the listen.
52	* NightmareFuel: The music video for "Psycho Circus" looks like a drug trip, with added skeletons, a shot of Paul Stanley's face ''melting'', bright colours... it's just freaky to watch.
53	* OffendingTheCreatorsOwn: The "lightning bolt" rendering of the double-s in the band's logo is similar to the logo of the Nazi SS, leading some people to jump to the conclusion that the band are somehow neo-Nazis or Nazi sympathizers. In reality, both Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley are Jewish and have relatives who either survived or died in the Holocaust.
54	* OneSceneWonder: Mark St. John, KISS' third lead guitarist. Only played on one album (''Animalize''), got reactive arthritis, and was replaced almost instantly with Bruce Kulick. Accounts vary on how many shows of the album's tour he played in, but most agree that St. John played very few, if any, and that Kulick ended up filling up for him in most of them.
55	** St. John was a talented guitarist but he wasn't right for the group. Weary from their constant battles with Vinnie Vincent, Gene and Paul wanted a guitarist who would play the songs the way they wanted them played. While St. John's quiet personality was easier to get along with than the egotistical Vincent, his constant playing improvisation grated on Gene and Paul almost immediately; when his medical condition sidelined him for the European leg of the ''Animalize'' tour, they brought in Bruce Kulick as a temporary replacement. Kulick, thrilled to be playing in the group, obeyed every directive Gene and Paul gave him and played the solos exactly the way they wanted every night. When St. John recovered enough to begin playing in the shows again, Gene and Paul quickly decided that while Kulick didn't have St. John's raw talent, he was a much better fit for KISS.
56	* TheProblemWithLicensedGames: ''KISS: Psycho Circus: The Nightmare Child'' for PC and Dreamcast was SoOkayItsAverage, with level designs and gameplay that didn't really move the needle forward for FPS games of the time.
57	* ReplacementScrappy: Mostly averted with Eric Carr and Bruce Kulick. but otherwise played straight for the most part.
58	** Especially in regards to Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer using costumes/singing songs by Peter Criss and Ace Frehley. Not that the fans hate Singer/Thayer as people, or even as musicians, but they hate how they wear the "Catman" and "Spaceman" makeup after Criss and Frehley departed, especially considering how Vinnie Vincent and Eric Carr adopted different personas than Ace and Peter for themselves when they joined at the tail end of the first makeup era. Ace and Peter themselves have pretty publicly voiced their disapproval, with Ace turning down the chance to play with the band on their final tour unless Thayer was either fired, or kept off the stage while Ace was on.
59	* RetroactiveRecognition: Not to anyone involved in the band's music, but to their ''technician'', "Ampie"; most people today know him as John Elder Robison, autism rights advocate and author of ''Look Me in the Eye'', an autobiography about his life with undiagnosed UsefulNotes/AspergerSyndrome.
60	* SignatureSong: Quite a few. The best examples are "Rock and Roll All Nite", "Detroit Rock City", and "I Was Made for Lovin' You". For the no-makeup era, there is "Lick It Up", "Heaven's On Fire", and "Forever".
61	* SilentMajority: Did you know that there are fans who love Eric Singer and Tommy Thayer and feel they're worthy replacements for their predecessors? You wouldn't know it from the way the anti-Singer/Thayer trolls harp on about them.
62	* SuspiciouslySimilarSong:
63	** The main riff of "Modern Day Delilah" sounds almost identical to Music/PearlJam's "Even Flow".
64	** "Reason to Live" from ''Crazy Nights'' sounds ''extremely'' similar to Music/{{Foreigner\|Band}}'s "I Want to Know What Love Is".
65	* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: This will generally be the attitude among a vocal portion of the band's fandom whenever a personnel shakeup takes place. The current lineup especially gets people riled up, since Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer are wearing the makeup of the absent original members, and there are some out there who still resent Singer for not being Eric Carr.
66	* VindicatedByHistory: In some fans' eyes, Vinnie Vincent. The release of demos on the internet and live recordings vindicate him as a fairly talented guitar player and songwriter with a smooth singing voice and knack for melodic ballads, but hard for KISS to work with because of his showy style, and a NiceGuy in real life who suffered from financial circumstances, a miserable lonely marriage and a belief nobody cared about him that led to a deep depression and avoiding the public until he was back on the streets in 2018.
67	** The whole band has seen a reappraisal in later years, seeing as a lot of rock's most credible and legendary performers post-1970s have claimed inspiration or appreciation of them.
68	** The band's early work has also found new appreciation in the last few years, particularly their first three or four albums, which feature some downright ''nasty'' proto-metal, and a lot more experimentation than the safe party-rock act they became later on.
69	** For some, ''Music from The Elder'' is an interesting experiment and change of pace despite its commercial failure.
70	** Ace Frehley. Despite being the most well-respected musician in the band, for many years his style was considered to be pretty generic, a poor man's Jimmy Page, essentially. In later years, however, many musicians started praising Frehley's very unique phrasing, and his innovation (he used tapping the year ''before'' Eddie Van Halen made the technique mainstream).
71	* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotForKids:
72	** The song "Detroit Rock City" is one of many rather inappropriate songs featured on Tooth Tunes, a line of toothbrushes that when used play music. [[SarcasmMode Nothing brings kids to brush their teeth quite like a song about a man going way over the speed limit while going to a KISS concert and dying in a car crash, right?]] Not to mention it's a true story and one of the lyrics is either "I know I'm gonna die, why?" or "I know I'm gonna die, and I don't care!" depending on the version.
73	** The band are a borderline example. While the costumes and merch definitely were made with kid appeal in mind, particularly post-reunion, most of their famous songs are pretty explicitly about sex.

Context YMMV / KISS