Line #21 YMMV/DirgeOfCerberus


1	!!Pages for other entries in the Compilation:
2	[[index]]
3	* ''YMMV/FinalFantasyVII''
4	* ''YMMV/BeforeCrisis''
5	* ''[[YMMV/FinalFantasyVIIAdventChildren Advent Children]]''
6	* ''YMMV/CrisisCore''
7	* ''YMMV/FinalFantasyVIIRemake''
8	* ''YMMV/FinalFantasyVIIEverCrisis''
9	* ''YMMV/FinalFantasyVIIRebirth''
10	[[/index]]
11	----
12	* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/FinalFantasy Here]].
13	* AmericansHateTingle: Western players tend to discard Weiss in the same vein as Genesis and believe he is just a badly written bland Sephiroth-clone villain. However, he is more clearly liked in Japan and some people like him for his design, badass attitude and especially for the HoYay moments with his brother. The fact that the Japanese online version of the game had been AdaptedOut in the Western version did not help since the mode showed Weiss's actual personality rather than [[spoiler:him possessed by Hojo]] and his role in Deepground.
14	* AntiClimaxBoss: The final boss [[spoiler: Omega Weiss]] goes down pretty easily. Aside from one attack it has near the ends of its fight that can take off a huge chunk of your health, it hardly poses a threat to [[spoiler: Chaos Vincent ]]
15	* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic:
16	** Regardless of the game's quality, you have to admit Masashi Hamauzu did a good job.
17	** Likewise, Music/{{Gackt}}'s absolutely kick-ass songs during the gameplay and the ending credits.
18	* BaseBreakingCharacter:
19	** Vincent got pushed pretty hard into this trope by this game, after being quite popular in [[VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII the original]] (it's why this game exists to begin with). Always on his side were his design, mysterious nature, and cool factor; always against him was his surprising lousiness and people who found that same cool factor insufferably tryhard. ''Dirge'' added in heavy piles of (w)angst and a supremely complicated backstory that posited him as more or less central to the universe, and that's before getting into its own quality! Suffice to say that how one feels about Vincent in this game is probably how one feels about the entire ''Franchise/{{Compilation\|OfFinalFantasyVII}}'' project as a whole; either it fleshed out one of the best parts of the original game, it ruined the mystique of something with potential, or it took something that wasn't interesting to begin with and shoved it in the spotlight.
20	** Nero the Sable is this too: he is either the worst character of the game with the most ridiculous design and because of his {{Narm}} moments, or the most interesting Tsviet with his darkness powers, his HiddenDepths and his love and devotion for Weiss.
21	* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: Twice involving Cait Sith and Reeve. The first time, Reeve is seemingly shot by a Deepground soldier only to reveal it was Cait Sith [[ActuallyADoombot piloting a Reeve body.]] Most players will probably just shrug that off as being PlayedForLaughs despite how nonsensical it is to remotely control a robot that's piloting a robot and the fact that Reeve never does this again despite the danger around him. Then when the WRO Headquarters gets invaded, Vincent runs into Reeve.. [[MindScrew and Cait Sith]]. Moving independently of one another, with no implication anywhere in the series that Cait Sith is an automated robot of his own accord. Not even [[AllThereInTheManual extra Compilation info]] has ever bothered to explain this.
22	* ContinuityLockout: Not that it's normally expected for one to play a sequel without having played the original, but plot points and terms from both the original ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'' and ''Anime/FinalFantasyVIIAdventChildren'' are relevant to the game's storyline to the point that the intro takes place ''during the endgame of the original''. For those that missed Vincent's optional backstory flashbacks in the original game (or, you know, [[OptionalPartyMember Vincent himself]]), his backstory's recapped and explained in more detail, but the game doesn't even take five seconds to explain anything else that isn't new to its own story. It doesn't help that several of these plot points also get a nasty smack dab of RetroactiveContinuity, only muddling things even further.
23	* EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame:. While opinions on the plot vary heavily, its detractors consider it to be SoBadItsGood and its fans genuinely like it. This is in contrast with the gameplay, which puts in [[SoOkayItsAverage a pretty solid effort]] for "most boring shooter on the [=PS2=]."
24	* EnsembleDarkhorse: For an antagonist group that was cut off by being exclusive to this game (at least until ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVIIRemake'' hinted at [[spoiler:bringing them into the picture far sooner]]), people who don't resent Deepground as another strange facet of this game's story tend to really get behind Rosso for being hot, Weiss for being a surprisingly hardcore villain that doesn't dive into being a Sephiroth clone despite his appearance, and Shelke for adding to the cast dynamic in a unique way with her HeelFaceTurn.
25	* FashionVictimVillain: Oh, where do we start? Nero's face jockstrap? Weiss's karate pants? The Deepground soldiers' Mako-infused glowing uniforms? (Though to be fair, [[spoiler:they'll die without Mako infusions]].) Rosso's butt-cape and Azul's horse blanket? Heck, even Vincent's Chaos form might count as a ''heroic'' example.
26	* FanPreferredCouple: Unsurprisingly, although Vincent still continues to pine for Lucrecia, this game made a lot of people pair up Vincent and Yuffie (which was already a popular, if not [[ShipsThatPassInTheNight slightly reaching]], ship in the fandom) due to their numerous interactions, [[SavvyGuyEnergeticGirl their polar opposite personalities]], and the fact that they save each other quite a lot over the course of the story.
27	* FoeYayShipping:
28	** Rosso and Vincent; [[TermsOfEndangerment Rosso constantly calls Vincent "darling."]]
29	** A bit between Nero and Vincent, too. "So you wish to dance?"
30	** Also between Nero and Shelke as well.
31	** Restrictor and Weiss. At one point, Restrictor holds a half-naked Weiss back to his throne by his chains, only releasing when he needs him. Then there is Weiss taunting Restrictor in their last battle, Weiss asking Restrictor to let him join him.
32	* FridgeLogic: Reeve pilots Cait Sith remotely, a plot point from the original game. And then Reeve gets shot in this game for a brief DisneyDeath surprise early on, and it's ActuallyADoombot piloted by Cait Sith. And then it just becomes illogical when the real Reeve ''and'' Cait Sith move actively and independently at the same time on-screen, right next to each other with no signs of remote control. [[BigLippedAlligatorMoment No, this is never explained.]]
33	* HamAndCheese:
34	** Creator/PaulEiding as Hojo, though he's much more subdued in ''VideoGame/CrisisCore''.
35	** Creator/MaryElizabethMcGlynn's Rosso.
36	* HeartwarmingInHindsight: The game was clearly not intended as the final chapter of the original ''Final Fantasy VII'' timeline, considering its SequelHook that was never followed up on, but since this is the game where characters such as Cloud and Tifa seem to be at the happiest they’ve ever been, it is nice to look back and see that those characters ended their timeline in much better spirits than any earlier timeline appearance had them at.
37	* HoYay:
38	** [[spoiler:Genesis]] has some with [[spoiler:Weiss]] (who he calls "little brother") in the Secret Ending. [[spoiler:It's justified, as all the Tsviets were spliced with Genesis's cells.]]
39	** Between Vincent and Reeve. They are quite close and Vincent is quite emotional when Reeve is shot, though Reeve gets better.
40	** Between Vincent and Cid as well, even if Cid is married to Shera. Cid is very genuinely loyal to Vincent and shows his warmer side to him.
41	** Azul is very, very loyal to Weiss and [[spoiler:even dies while screaming "Hail, Weiss"]]. Justified since Weiss is one of the few who managed to get the upper hand on him.
42	** Nero and Weiss, to the point it's borderline incestuous. Let's see:
43	*** Nero's first meeting with Vincent, stating that "Weiss is the only one who ever loved him and is the only person that Nero would ever love". It might be viewed as extreme brotherly love, but Nero uses "Ai" term in Japanese, which means something here.
44	*** At this same scene, Nero says "however" in a shaking voice and briefly stops to look down before keeping on and resuming to his cruel attitude.
45	*** In general, Nero's behavior counts: he usually behaves either cold, cruel, mocking or bored toward anyone, which is understandable due to his background. However, he becomes absolutely loving and tender whenever Weiss is involved. Nero's Japanese voice is even more so than his English voice.
46	*** Nero saying he would never love anyone but Weiss can be taken in every sense of the word.
47	*** Nero's VillainousBreakdown when Vincent and Yuffie almost shoot Weiss when the latter is revived. He uses his powers against them and before his final battle with Vincent, he states that no one would ever take Weiss away from him again.
48	*** Nero always referring Weiss as his "beloved brother."
49	*** After his defeat, Nero comes to see Weiss revived [[spoiler:and is unaware that the latter is controlled by Hojo]]. Before the latter stabs him, Nero was about to embrace him. He also stated that he would never leave him again as they are finally together.
50	*** Nero and Weiss [[spoiler:merging together to get rid of Hojo]]. For this, they share an intense and tender embrace with Nero caressing him and confessing his love to him again. Weiss is as affectionate to Nero as Nero is to him in this scene, and they both die while saying the other's name.
51	*** During Nero's meeting with Shelke, the latter stated that she would never "let down people who count on her." Nero briefly pauses before snarking back. You can guess whom he was thinking to at this moment.
52	*** In the Japanese online mode, there is a scene involving Nero pinned to a pillar and the Player comes to meet him along with Usher. When the latter states that Weiss would have only three days to live after Restrictor's death, Nero violently reacts and lets out a shrieking scream and engulfes the entire room with his darkness.
53	*** In ''Dirge of Cerberus Lost Episode'', Nero watches Vincent's journey and is about to kill him but he realizes that someone (probably Cait Sith) intruded into the most "precious room."
54	*** You can wonder about the reason why, in the online mode, Weiss came to kill Restrictor despite knowing he would die afterward. One common interpretation was that Weiss wanted to get Nero freed.
55	*** Creator/JojiNakata (Weiss's Japanese voice actor) and Creator/RyotaroOkiayu (Nero's Japanese voice actor) played it a bit with their characters, with Weiss calling Nero "my cute Nero."
56	* IncestYayShipping: Nero/Weiss. Fans wouldn't be surprised to find these two paired up together, due to their ambiguous relationship in the game. Even for those who don't believe in incest commented that there was a bit more than just brotherly love between these two.
57	* JerkassWoobie:
58	** Lucrecia. She suffers ''horribly'', but she brought nearly all of it upon herself.
59	** The Tsviets fit this trope as well. They're monsters and yet you can feel sorry for them. Especially Nero. At least he has a happy ending of sorts.
60	* MoralEventHorizon:
61	** Lucrecia experiments on her own son. ''While she's pregnant with him'', no less!
62	** While she's largely passive in the main game, the Multiplayer Mode has Shelke reveal the deception of the Tsviets rather sadistically to the player.
63	** Deepground collectively crosses it by participating in a plan that involves massacring people and capturing the "pure" to then slaughter ''en masse'' to trick Omega into awakening.
64	** Nero crosses it when he tortures Shelke. His usual abilities are largely painless and at times accidental, in comparison to this.
65	* {{Narm}}:
66	** Creator/TetsuyaNomura's [[WTHCostumingDepartment designs]] really got out of hand with this game. From the redesign of Chaos [[ProgressivelyPrettier to be]] {{Bishonen}} and covered in TooManyBelts, to poor Nero who effectively is wearing a ''jockstrap'' on his face.
67	** Whenever Vincent walks away from someone at the end of a cutscene, a manual CapeSwish is done. From saving children, to blowing off an ally's advice, to dramatically leaving the area after killing a boss. ''Every single time.''
68	** The plot point involving the fact that the entire game starts off with Deepground raiding a celebration over [[SeriousBusiness the internet being restored]]. Yeah, the game doesn't outright say it at first, and dresses it up with fancy in-universe terms, but it's a ''global holiday'' for the occasion. Even worse, that whole "Hojo disappearing from being struck by lightning" in the intro? [[spoiler:[[BrainUploading He uploaded himself to said internet]], basically became a data ghost, and then possesses and re-animates Weiss -- only for Weiss to erase him a good few minutes later without even a fight.]] It edges on spiraling the whole plot point into a borderline BigLippedAlligatorMoment were it not for being such a catalyst, especially seeing as nothing in the original game even hinted at this sort of internet logic.
69	** [[EyeScream Shalua has lost her left eye.]] How does her visual design depict this? Is she wearing [[EyepatchOfPower an eyepatch]], or perhaps she has an {{artificial\|Limbs}} [[ElectronicEyes replacement]]? No, she simply keeps her eye always closed. This even makes it look like she’s perpetually winking at everyone, which is outright textbook Narm on its own since it gives her a facial expression that most people use when trying to be playful, despite all of her scenes being extremely dramatic. There aren't even any scars or other visual indicators of damage. It looks more silly than anything.
70	** Shalua has a HeroicSacrifice moment to save Shelke and Vincent, before Azul seemingly pastes her on the other side of a locked door. Except for two things; due to the game having BloodlessCarnage, instead of blood seeping under the door, it's oil that looks more like she [[PottyFailure pissed herself]]. And then shortly thereafter [[spoiler:she's recovered completely intact, save for the mechanical arm that got crushed in a door (which the game positions her to never show), and in a coma with her fate left ambiguous. This in spite of basically being mauled by a beast the size of a semi-truck.]]
71	** How does Vincent march into the final battle on an EleventhHourSuperpower versus a godly entity that will be used to end the world? By being supported by ThePowerOfFriendship in a moment that seems like it's lifted directly out of ''Franchise/SuperSentai'', complete with the whole ''VII'' cast (except for Red XIII, who got delegated to TheCameo in the ending) sharing the screen in a dramatic cut cheering him on. Vincent, deadpan as ever and voiced by [[Creator/SteveBlum the king of the tone himself]], remarks about the situation with the cheesiest OneLiner you can get played straight, as if he's mildly annoyed that he's being dragged into this mess in the first place.
72	---> '''Vincent:''' Guess I have no choice... It's time ''(DramaticPause)'' to save the world.
73	** The cutscene fight between [[spoiler:Chaos!]]Vincent and Weiss right before the FinalBoss. If the rest of the game didn't spell out just how goddang anime it was, the pair basically go all ''[[Franchise/TheMatrix Matrix]]'' on each other, revolver versus dual katanas, and even start pulling off FlashStep hijinks to an absurd extreme. It's like two kids on the playground trying to one-up eachother.
74	* NoYay:
75	** Between Vincent and Shelke. One is an undead around 60 years-old person who is still clearly in love with Lucrecia. The other is a brainwashed emotionless 19 years-old girl who is trapped in a 9 years-old body who collected Lucrecia's data as well as her feelings for Vincent. Some people ship them, though.
76	** For people who aren't into incest, Weiss and Nero might count though it's a bit downplayed due to the portrayal of canonical IncestSubtext.
77	* OneSceneWonder:
78	** The badass WRO airship fleet. And Cloud, Tifa, and Barret's appearance.
79	** Genesis, for some.
80	* PlatonicWritingRomanticReading:
81	** Even though Lucrecia was Vincent's love interest, his scenes with Yuffie ([[BridalCarry carrying her bridal-style]], mutually saving each other, and Yuffie being the one who is worried when Vincent disappears as Chaos) come across as romantic.
82	** Same goes for Vincent and Shelke. While their relationship is just viewed as friendship, a common interpretation is Shelke developing feelings for Vincent. Shelke has Lucrecia's data stored in her mind and she seems to react to it by acting awkward around Vincent. In general, every scene involving these two together imply some connection between them (as well as some level of attraction). At the ending, the first person Vincent meets after leaving Lucrecia is Shelke, waiting for him outside, the last scene involving Shelke wondering why the others sent her to get Vincent then they watch the rebuilt world together.
83	** If it wasn't stated Weiss and Nero were brothers, their relationship could be interpreted as lovers. Their interactions and dialogue don't help. Though for some fans, there is still IncestSubtext. The Japanese version adds more fuel; Nero uses the word "''ai''" when it comes to his love for his brother, implying there is something here.
84	* SalvagedStory: In spite of the game's other problems, one thing that most fans tend to agree on is that Cloud’s characterization was a huge step up from his then recent portrayal in ''Advent Children'' (and when including appearances outside of the ''Compilation'', his appearances in the ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' series as well), in which he was seen as being far too {{Wangst}}y. In ''Dirge of Cerberus'' by comparison, Cloud is much more confident and upbeat, showing that he was finally able to move in a healthier direction after ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII''. To a lesser extent this also applies to Tifa, who also seems much happier than she did in ''Advent Children''.
85	* SoBadItsGood: ''Dirge of Cerberus'' stands as one of the lowest-rated parts of the entire ''Compilation'', if not ''the'' lowest, and if it isn't complaining about [[Anime/FinalFantasyVIIAdventChildren Cloud being turned emo]] or everything involving [[VideoGame/CrisisCore Genesis]], this entire game is used by detractors as to why the ''Compilation'' was a bad idea. And yet whether due to BileFascination or simply because of how surreal and plain strange this game's story becomes, bordering on an ([[MoodWhiplash almost]]) completely serious self-parody, it has a number of fans solely because of the low bar ''Dirge'' set.
86	* {{Squick}}: Shelke, suffering from a case of OlderThanTheyLook, is a nineteen-year-old mind in a child's body. That doesn't stop the camera from awkward MaleGaze shots accentuating her bodysuit, or being an ImpliedLoveInterest for Vincent, who is not only basically undead and [[TheFirstCutIsTheDeepest forever pining for]] [[TheLostLenore his lost first love]], but far, ''[[MayDecemberRomance far]]'' older than even Shelke's mental age. Which is ''also'' stunted to boot. At least Yuffie, another character in sort of the same boat, is legally an adult by this game. This gets worse with the AlternativeCharacterInterpretation above, if one considers her having Lucretia's memories as potentially having inherited her feelings for Vincent too. Which could be romantic and tragic on one hand, and wholly disturbing on another.
87	* ThatOneBoss: Arch Azul has a horrendously stupid gimmick: he's immune to projectiles. This includes bullets. ''Dirge of Cerberus'' is a third-person shooter [[DidntThinkThisThrough where projectiles make up almost all of your offensive capability]]. What you're supposed to do with him is transform and then beat him down with your [[SuperMode Limit Break]]. This works unless Arch Azul gets lucky and then can stunlock you to death. Aside from the Limit Break, you have your claw and your magic, which have both sucked from the start and even by this point of the game don't really get any better with leveling up.
88	* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot:
89	** We have a focus on Vincent's past with Lucrecia and Hojo during the Jenova Project, but Gast (Aerith's father) is nowhere to be found. Which is pretty perplexing since Gast was brought up by Vincent in his flashback in the original game ([[AllInTheManual and according to the Ultimanias]] [[{{Retcon}} the original reason]] why Lucrecia chose Hojo over Vincent was because she pitied him over being compared to the top scientist). It would have been interesting to expand more of his character out and his connection to the others during this time, but he's never seen or brought up by anyone. Gets worse when you consider Hojo has a massive inferiority complex about Gast being the better scientist, and Hojo's character desperately needed some depth in this game, as he comes off as so ObviouslyEvil it's a miracle Lucrecia or anyone else could stand being in the same room with him long enough to complete the JENOVA project.
90	** The flashbacks are 25-30 years in the past, but there's no sense of how things have changed - had mako energy already been discovered? Were reactors being built? Are tensions with Wutai brewing? Is the company still Shinra Manufacturing or had it been renamed yet? Were the Turks Vincent joined the same 'professional bad guys' they are in the present day? Etc.
91	* UnintentionallySympathetic:
92	** Rosso. She's an AxCrazy murderer and a bloodthirsty psychopath, and she is the one who tortures Vincent the most. However, after watching the online cutscenes (only available in the Japanese release), you can't help but feel some pity for her when you learn that she had been trapped in Deepground since her birth and never went outside, [[LaserGuidedTykebomb only being used by the Restrictors to kill]]. With this knowledge, [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds it isn't difficult to understand why she wants to destroy the world]].
93	** Weiss. While he's very similar to Rosso, being a murderer without any remorse for his actions, and used his own Tsviets (including the player in the Japan-only online mode) -- who helped him kill the Restrictors and died for it -- simply to achieve his goals, the one thing he wanted the most was to leave Deepground and be free. There are also implications that he wanted to free Nero, who had largely been chained up during all this time.
94	** Nero may fall under this as well. As willing and cruel he might be to the entire world and as willing he is to destroy it, it's hard not to feel pity for him when Nero's first intention was to bring his brother back to life because he was unable to live on without him. The fact that he had been manipulated by Hojo and had been killed by him while controlling Weiss, the last person Nero would expect to betray him makes him a bit sympathetic despite his horrific actions. It doesn't help that in one online cutscene, Nero spent his whole time separated of his brother and could only scream while knowing that his brother would later die in three days after Restrictor's death.
95	* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
96	** Lucrecia is supposed to come off as a WellIntentionedExtremist, what with her noble intentions and her clear remorse for her actions. However, she makes one horrible, stupid mistake after another: her lack of caution gets Vincent's father killed, she hooks up with [[ObviouslyEvil Hojo]] after [[PoorCommunicationKills refusing to simply talk to Vincent]] when he learns about his father's death, and she blithely experiments on her own child in utero. Then she seals herself away once she can no longer live with her actions... which leaves Vincent (one of the people she hurt the most) to clean up her mess.
97	** Shelke just seems like an EmotionlessGirl that was dragged into Deepground and put into horrible circumstances against her will. But before she is forced to do a HeelFaceTurn because her allies decided that she [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness wasn't useful to their plans anymore]], she openly cooperated with and fully supported her "captors" as one of their primary members and as a leader of Deepground, making her wholly complicit in genocide; a plan that was intended to ''[[EndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt wipe all life from the Planet]]''. Even worse, the [[NoExportForYou Japan-only]] Online Mode pretty much had her [[spoiler:MindRape the protagonist into complacency, and then KickTheDog by telling them everything that'd worked for up to that point was just a ruse she created, and they got used like a sucker. While they're bleeding out and dying.]] She gets off scot-free for all of this as a KarmaHoudini, with the only real punishment being her sister's [[HeroicSacrifice fate]] (which potentially isn't even permanent).
98	* {{Wangst}}: Vincent. Though it ''is'' consistent with Vincent telling Cloud in ''[[Anime/FinalFantasyVIIAdventChildren Advent Children]]'' that he had "never tried" forgiveness (read: forgiving himself), many fans found his self-loathing in this game to be unstomachable nonetheless.

Context YMMV / DirgeOfCerberus