Line #57 Headscratchers/KamenRiderDouble


1	* At one point Shroud claims Double's most powerful form is [=CycloneAccelXtreme=], but wouldn't its most powerful form be [=FangAccelXtreme=]?
2	** This is purely speculation, but it may be that Fang would be too wild to control when fueled by rage along with Accel. So maybe, just maybe, CAX was the most powerful that would still be easy enough to control.
3	*** With [=CycloneJokerGoldXtreme=] unlocked in TheMovie, and Accel Trial obtained in the show, wouldn't it be logical to say that Double's strongest form would be [=FangTrialGoldExtreme=]?
4	** Except that's imposible because their's no Memory Driver that can support four memories (because the Xtreme Memory's two ports makes it count as two memories.)
5	** Extreme absorbs the Memories placed in the Double Driver's ports (in the show, at least), so it's still possible...
6	*** Fang uses Phillip's body. Since Phillip is absorbed into the Xtreme Memory...
7	** You realize this JBM hits FridgeLogic once you realize how it would be impossible to fit BOTH the Fang and Xtreme Memories onto the Driver right?
8	*** Xtreme teleports Cyclone and Joker into itself when they transform into CJX.
9	** Not really. the reality is that the Xtreme Memory has two plugs attached to its feet in the shape of memories, that way it can fit into both of the Double Driver's memory slots
10	*** Xtreme memory is indeed how you have describe it. However, the very fact they transform into Kamen Rider [=CycloneJokerXtreme=] instead of Kamen Rider Xtreme, proves that Xtreme Memory isn't the only memory involved in the transformation.
11	*** Then how do you explain the Cyclone and Joker Memories appearing outside [=CycloneJokerXtreme=]? It could just simply be that it's called [=CycloneJokerXtreme=] because he transforms using the Xtreme Memory in [=CycloneJoker=] Form.
12	** Technically, [=FangAccelXtreme=] ''would'' be possible if you used the T2 versions of those memories (since T2 Fang has the same shape a normal refined Gaia memory), but Shroud likely was already planning [=CAX=] long before those memories were created (note that at the time that she mentions said form, the T2 memories were likely complete, since they show up next episode). Although considering that the T2 Accel memory didn't go to Ryu in ''W Forever'', it's possible that Ryu has enough synchronization with Accel to use Accel/Accel Trial normally and to use [=CAX=], but ''not'' enough to keep Fang in check using either Accel.
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14	* Going back to the Fang Memory. Why didn't they ever use [=FangMetal=] or [=FangTrigger=] in the show?
15	** Because the Fang Memory is the memory of catharsis, frustration, and bitter rage. Would it feel better to hit a person with a stick, shoot someone, or tear them to pieces with your own two hands? Besides, the Fang Memory is bestial in nature; it's ''physical'', and to harness the power of beasts requires a body, not a gun or a staff.
16	*** Well, with the removable Shoulder Fang, it ''could'' be possible to make a weapon to ''better'' tear enemies apart (a spearhead for the Metal Rod, and a bayonette for the Trigger Magnum)? Besides, certain martial arts (as portrayed in [[Manga/HeroTales anime]] or [[Series/JukenSentaiGekiranger live action tv]], at least) rely on focusing your anger/spirit energy/whatever into a weapon, so...
17	** Yes, but they ''aren't'' martial artists, they are detectives. Granted, they probably are able to kick more asses than normal people, but they don't have the discipline or training to do that kind of things. Also, as stated above, even if they could do that, Fang is better suited for hand-to-hand combat, making it more compatible with Joker than Metal or Trigger.
18	** According to official info, while [=FangMetal=] and [=FangTrigger=] are ''possible'', they would also send Double out of control. Only Shotaro's high synchronization with the Joker Memory can keep Fang in check.
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20	* If Phillip can look up the world's library to find out stuff, why didn't they use it to find the whereabouts of Sokichi if they are sure that they NeverFoundTheBody?
21	** Didn't the facility ''explode''?
22	*** Well, yeah, but they most definitely know that they did not find Narumi's body, and it even fell in a pit that Taboo made. They could have just use the Gaia Library to see if Narumi is most definitely dead or not.
23	** It seemed to be the implication that, because Phillipe already ''knew'' he was dead, he had done that already at some point. Nevermind the fact that the chief literally took his last breath in Shotaro's arms with Phillipe standing ''maybe'' 10 feet away...
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25	* In one episode of Double, when Phillip is attacked by the Triceratops Dopant, he asks Shotaro to give him the Driver to transfrom into Fang Joker, but when he was getting chased by the Smilodon Dopant eariler on (before FJ's debut), this thought didn't enter his head, or hell, Fang never appeared to assist him. So, other than the fact that they did not create the suit for FJ yet, why didn't Phillip use Fang to protect him from the Smilodon Dopant?
26	** [[spoiler: Smilodon is Mick. I don't think Fang would attack Phillip's cat.]]
27	*** If this troper recalls correctly, at that point they simply didn't want to use it because it drove Phillip berserk (or Shotaro was against it, or whatever), where as at the time of the Triceratops Dopant, that bug was ironed out.
28	** Wasn't Fang missing prior to its debut? So perhaps it couldn't have helped Phillip when he was attacked.
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30	* If Gaia Memories are easy to break, like crushing it in your hand or stomping on it, why didn't Shotaro do that to the T-Rex Memory?
31	** Notice that it's only ever someone who's already got an ''active'' Memory, which may indicate that a Dopant crushing it with his/her hand, is similar to Double's Memory Breaks.
32	*** Speaking of easy to crush Gaia Memories, does this apply to Double's Gaia Memories?
33	** Possibly, though it must be noted that the Memories they break are raw, fresh-from-the-perverbial-oven, whereas the Riders' Memories are highly refined to the point that their power is severely weakened compared to the raw power of direct-insert Memories. Think about how easy it is to rip a cookie apart when it's fresh, compared to the relative effort it takes to break it later after it's cooled to room-temperature; similar theory here with the Memories.
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35	* Why is Akiko, in general, so critical of Shotaro? He's has proven on a number of occasions with her in view-the first meetings with Santa-chan and the Info Dealer, not to mention impressive combat skill that has been thrust upon him by Phillip-that he is more than capable of being a detective. Sure, he blows up emotionally, but its not like she's not guilty of that either. And she always [[DopeSlap Gibbs Slapps]] him when she's more reckless and capable of botching up the plans, especially when she takes it upon herself to infiltrate the Sonozaki family.
36	** [[{{Tsundere}} We have a trope for that.]]
37	* I'm asking why compared to Shotaro, not what she is in terms of identifying the trope. In terms of [[{{CharacterDevelopment}} Character Development]], she doesn't have any real reason to be critical of him, motivation-wise outside of very, very small things.
38	** Maybe she's just kind of a dick? Anyway, it's common for people to have specific people that just annoy them for no real logical reason.
39	*** We also forget that Shotaro has yet to tell her the one thing she wants to know: Where her father is. [[spoiler: Let's not forget the episode/movie Begins Night, where she hears that he's dead, but not directly. Part of the later series annoyance she has with him could be fueled by the fact that he hasn't said it straight to her face.]]
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41	* So...[[spoiler: The T2's Zone Memory maximum drive, from what was shown in the Kamen Rider Double movie, brings all the other T2 Gaia Memories to the person who activated it. How come the BigBad didn't just use it when they were searching for the Joker Memory?]]
42	** Perhaps there is a distance limit to Zone's influence?
43	** It could be that he just loves fighting. Similar to that situation, he also could have used Eternal's power to disable the non-T2 Gaia Memories before Double could even fight them. He seems to be also amused when the people in Futo started fighting among themselves after he promised a reward to whoever will find it.
44	** He promised that whoever found the Joker Memory could join his group as one of them. It could be that he wanted to have as many dopants on his side as possible (since the only memories aside from Joker that his group doesn't find on their own are Accel, Key, and Bird), but just didn't take into account the possibility of someone obtaining a spare Lost Driver (especially since in the series and the movie, aside from the one that Eternal uses, there's a total of 1-2 other Lost Drivers, [[spoiler: depending on if that was Skull's or another one that Shotaro used to become Joker]]).
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46	* This is kind of a dumb gripe for such a short scene, but [[spoiler:how the hell did [[Series/KamenRiderOOO Eiji]] manage to get that far up Futo Tower at ''that'' point in the movie? Wouldn't one of the NEVER members get suspicious and try to attack him? ObfuscatingStupidity only goes ''so'' far...]]
47	** You forgot that [[spoiler: nearly all the NEVER agents save for Daido and Izumi are dead, so he could slip by easily.]]
48	** [[spoiler: Either that or he actually fought his way up. Could explain why the medal rolled onto where Luna and Dobule were, he was making an entrance]].
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50	* Why didn't Terui use the T2 Accel Memory the group had when Eternal nulled his original Accel Memory?
51	** Maybe he's not compatible with it
52	** Or maybe it didn't work with his Driver.
53	** If my memory is correct, they lost all their T2 Memories pretty much right after Eternal beat them.
54	*** Ryu never had the memory, actually - it was Queen and Elizabeth who gave the memory to Shotaro and Phillip after finding it, not Ryu, and Ryu never had the T2 version of the Accel memory in his possession. That doesn't explain why he doesn't try and go straight into Accel Trial though[[note]]since it's never been established if he has to start in regular Accel before transforming into Accel Trial, like Double with CJX[[/note]].
55	*** I'm pretty sure that the Trial Memory is included in the huge list of memories that were deactivated when the T2 Eternal Memory's maximum drive was activated.
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57	* In one of the Net Movies, Akiko is asked who would win in a fight between Kamen Rider Joker and Kamen Rider [=CycloneJoker=], the correct answer turns out to be neither since there is only one Shotaro and thus they could never fight. This series crossed over with [[Series/KamenRiderDecade Decade]], who has the ability to transform into other Kamen Riders, and travels the multiverse. That's two ways for such a fight to occur right there.
58	** Not to mention that [[spoiler: there was a Dopant capable of mimicking Kamen Riders perfectly.]]
59	*** [[{{Omake}} You're taking the Net Movies seriously?]]
60	*** Akiko doesn't know about the multiverse, so she likely was only considering what could possibly happen in the universe she knew of.
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62	* Why did Isaka put a rare rose at the Terui's house? Was it to throw off any investigation?
63	** Isaka is ''crazy''.
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65	* From ''Movie Wars Core''. Due to Spider Dopant's ability, [[spoiler:Sokichi can never physically touch anyone he's emotionally devoted to, including family and friends. If he does, the Spider Bomb inside him will transfer to the person he touches, causing it to explode.]] It's hard to say that [[spoiler:he has no emotions towards Shotaro (be it teacher-and-students or TrueCompanions)]], but recalling ''Movie Wars 2010'' he slapped Shotaro once (and probably did that before as well)......So what happens in between? [[spoiler:It doesn't seem the curse left Sokichi until his death.]]
66	** [[spoiler:It was the one they were the ''most'' emotionally devoted to, which was Akiko. He really cared about Shotaro, but not to the point it triggered the spider like Akiko would've.]]
67	** Also, Skull ''beat'' the Spider Dopant, so why is that, even though the Spider Memory was broken, it's effects [[spoiler:(the Spider Bombs)]] still lingered in its victims?
68	*** I'll turn that around: Why are ''you'' assuming that they should have [[NoOntologicalInertia No Ontological Inertia]]?
69	** The Spider Dopant's ability likely [[spoiler: only applied to who the person had the most affection towards ''at the time'' - Sokichi didn't really get to know Shotaro until after the event; meaning even if he cared more for Shotaro than for Akiko at some point, the bomb would still only target Akiko]].
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71	* If Foundation X decided not to fund the NEVER project, then [[spoiler: How come one of their own members is a NEVER himself?]]
72	** [[spoiler: Presumably, even though the Foundation decided not to fund the NEVER project any further, they were smart enough to keep copies of the notes, developments, and serum in case the project could be picked up again at a later date. It could be supposed that Kazu - min-maxer that he was - found said notes and cooked up a batch of the NEVER serum for himself.]]
73	** The above theory is quite close to the truth, which was revealed in W Returns: Eternal. [[spoiler:Foundation X kept information about the NEVER project, but didn't use it until Kazu was killed and his lackeys resurrected him with it.]]
74	* A minor one, but why Ryu (being a ChickMagnet) chooses Akiko over all other girls he met during the whole show? Not saying Akiko is a bad girl though, but still......(especially all those fandom backlash towards her personality)
75	** Love is Blind, and possibly stupid
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77	* When the [=IceAge=] Dopant was rampaging and Ryu refered to a "W Memory" did it not occur to Phillip to consider thinking of "Weather" as opposed to "Winter" or "White"?
78	** At the moment, the only thing they had to go on was that it froze the victims - if the dopant had killed victims in other ways that could've been related to weather (i.e., drowning them with rainwater, electrocuting them with lightning), then he probably would've made the connection. He had no reason to suspect that it was a memory related to weather in general at the moment. And unless I'm mistaken, the only thing linking the crime was the victims freezing to death, so even if the Weather Dopant killed victims in ways relating to weather, it's possible that they would've assumed they were different serial killers.
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80	* Related to above, what made Phillip even consider "White" and linking it to ice-based powers?
81	** [[ColorCodedElements There's a trope for that.]]
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83	* What exactly was the theme of the Sonozaki Family's Dopant forms? Archaeology? No, Terror and Taboo don't fit. Their Mafia basis? Works for Terror and Taboo, but then why Smilodon, Nazca, and Claydoll?
84	** Well, maybe it's ''both''. Much like how Phillip's Memory Motifs are all elements while Shotaro's are all weapon-based.
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86	* Since Philip goes unconscious and faints when he henshins, wouldn't it be safer for him to do the process lying down instead of hoping to land on something soft and/or waiting for someone to catch him? (Admittedly, that wouldn't make for great television...)
87	** Watch when he goes unconscious. More often than not, he puts a hand down to catch himself rather than collide face-first with the floor (yes, this is the actor not wanting to break his nose, but it could just as easily be a last reflex for Philip before his consciousness fully transfers to Double).
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89	* If the T2 memories seek out the person they're the most compatable with, why didn't the Fang and Accel Memories seek out Phillip and Ryu respectively? I can understand why the T2 Cyclone memory didn't seek out Phillip, since it was already more compatible with someone else ([[spoiler: Maria S. Cranberry]]), but logically speaking, after Cyclone, Fang is the memory most associated with Phillip, and since there's no T2 Trial memory, the Accel memory should've gone straight to Ryu.
90	** There was never any implication that Ryu was the most compatible with the Accel Memory in all of Futo. The fact that Queen and Elizabeth were able to find it using their High School communications suggests that their is a high schooler or a person who is associated with a very cautious high schooler has a better compatibility with the Accel Memory than Ryu, as the reason Shroud gave Ryu the Accel Memory was because he's immune to abilities of dopants that target someone psychologically.
91	** As for the T2 Fang Memory, I can't say. However, the fact that the T1 Fang Memory is sentient whlist the T2 Fang Memory isn't may have something to do with it as the T1 Fang Memory was created solely to protect Philip.
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93	* So do the riders henshin into power armor or are they being physically transformed. I only ask because of accel and his bike form.
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Context Headscratchers / KamenRiderDouble