History YMMV / WerewolfTheApocalypse

15th May '17 7:38:44 PM nombretomado
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* OldShame: The Fianna again. In the Second Edition, a large part of the Fianna's internal tribe politics and background was tied up and interlinked with TheTroubles. Come The Revised Edition (post 9/11) most of this was excised and glossed over, with an apology and admission that terrorism wasn't big and clever, mirroring the real life shift in attitude towards the troubles, due to the uncomfortable reminder about YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters.

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* OldShame: The Fianna again. In the Second Edition, a large part of the Fianna's internal tribe politics and background was tied up and interlinked with TheTroubles.UsefulNotes/TheTroubles. Come The Revised Edition (post 9/11) most of this was excised and glossed over, with an apology and admission that terrorism wasn't big and clever, mirroring the real life shift in attitude towards the troubles, due to the uncomfortable reminder about YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters.
15th May '17 6:31:51 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* BrokenAesop:
** The overall messages of the game -- that people should protect the natural world and question the more destructive aspects of civilization -- are noble. However, in-game history indicates that ancient humans lived meager lives and suffered oppression under the Garou before they cultivated civilization. To boot, human life isn't intrinsically valuable to some Gaia-aligned factions, or arguably to Gaia herself, so abandoning civilization and getting back to Gaia might not be a good things for humanity.
** The game is intended to raise awareness about environmental harm, corporate corruption, and other social issues. In-game, however, these problems spring from a mad triat and cosmic imbalances that the characters are unlikely to impact. In other words, the game's backstory suggests that taking any action against such problems will only have a small impact at best, and [[InherentInTheSystem that large-scale change is impossible]].
4th Apr '17 7:27:28 AM SpectralTime
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** Keep in mind Garou had sex for primarily reproductive reasons, not simple, wasteful fun-time. In order for fertilization to happen, of course, the Garou has to be in the same form as the non-Garou; and presumably, one would prefer to seek mates of one's own birth-form (which is why lupus Garou are going extinct - it can be expected to be VERY difficult to get Homid Garou to want to mate with wolves. Witness the Glass Walkers, who have next to no Lupus.) As far as Garou-Garou "parties" go, they're technically breaking the Litany either way, even if no cubs are produced, whether the sex involved was cross-species, gay, or both. To get on with "parties" like that, is something Black Spiral Dancers can be expected to do (with glee); the Gaian Garou population would, of course, think of such as the worst form of sexual perversion. Yes, remember, they do tend towards old-fashioned thinking, especially as they grow older.
20th Mar '17 9:36:31 AM Foxtrot
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** Keep in mind Garou had sex for primarily reproductive reasons, not simple, wasteful fun-time. In order for fertilization to happen, of course, the Garou has to be in the same form as the non-Garou; and presumably, one would prefer to seek mates of one's own birth-form (which is why lupus Garou are going extinct - it can be expected to be VERY difficult to get Homid Garou to want to mate with wolves. Witness the Glass Walkers, who have next to no Lupus.) As far as Garou-Garou "parties" go, they're technically breaking the Litany either way, even if no cubs are produced, whether the sex involved was cross-species, gay, or both.

to:

** Keep in mind Garou had sex for primarily reproductive reasons, not simple, wasteful fun-time. In order for fertilization to happen, of course, the Garou has to be in the same form as the non-Garou; and presumably, one would prefer to seek mates of one's own birth-form (which is why lupus Garou are going extinct - it can be expected to be VERY difficult to get Homid Garou to want to mate with wolves. Witness the Glass Walkers, who have next to no Lupus.) As far as Garou-Garou "parties" go, they're technically breaking the Litany either way, even if no cubs are produced, whether the sex involved was cross-species, gay, or both. To get on with "parties" like that, is something Black Spiral Dancers can be expected to do (with glee); the Gaian Garou population would, of course, think of such as the worst form of sexual perversion. Yes, remember, they do tend towards old-fashioned thinking, especially as they grow older.
20th Mar '17 9:34:12 AM Foxtrot
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Added DiffLines:

**Keep in mind Garou had sex for primarily reproductive reasons, not simple, wasteful fun-time. In order for fertilization to happen, of course, the Garou has to be in the same form as the non-Garou; and presumably, one would prefer to seek mates of one's own birth-form (which is why lupus Garou are going extinct - it can be expected to be VERY difficult to get Homid Garou to want to mate with wolves. Witness the Glass Walkers, who have next to no Lupus.) As far as Garou-Garou "parties" go, they're technically breaking the Litany either way, even if no cubs are produced, whether the sex involved was cross-species, gay, or both.
6th Mar '17 8:28:11 PM DesertDragon
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* AccidentalAesop: An obsession with racial "purity" is not only stupid, but detrimental to a group's survival. Garou tribes that insist on breeding only with members of certain racial and ethnic groups (Get of Fenris, Wendigo) are small in number and declining. The Silver Fangs, most of whom only breed with blue bloods, are small in number and inbred. On the other hand, tribes that have mingled with a variety of racial and ethnic groups worldwide and accept converts from different racial backgrounds (namely the Bone Gnawers and Children of Gaia) are keeping their numbers steady.

to:

* AccidentalAesop: An obsession with racial "purity" is not only stupid, but detrimental to a group's survival. Garou tribes that insist on breeding only with members of certain racial and ethnic groups (Get of Fenris, Wendigo) are small in number and declining. The Silver Fangs, most of whom only breed with blue bloods, are small in number and inbred. The Red Talons, who refuse to mate with humans, are also on the decline. On the other hand, tribes that have mingled with a variety of racial and ethnic groups worldwide and accept converts from different racial backgrounds (namely the (the Black Furies, Bone Gnawers and Gnawers, Children of Gaia) Gaia, and Uktena) are keeping their numbers steady.
12th Jan '17 7:22:37 AM Nopperabo
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* AccidentalAesop: An obsession with racial "purity" is not only stupid, but detrimental to a group's survival. Garou tribes that insist on breeding only with members of certain racial and ethnic groups (Get of Fenris, Wendigo) are small in number and declining. The Silver Fangs, most of whom only breed with blue bloods, are small in number and inbred. On the other hand, tribes that have mingled with a variety of racial and ethnic groups worldwide and accept converts from different racial backgrounds (Glass Walkers, Bone Gnawers, Children of Gaia) are keeping their numbers steady or even growing.

to:

* AccidentalAesop: An obsession with racial "purity" is not only stupid, but detrimental to a group's survival. Garou tribes that insist on breeding only with members of certain racial and ethnic groups (Get of Fenris, Wendigo) are small in number and declining. The Silver Fangs, most of whom only breed with blue bloods, are small in number and inbred. On the other hand, tribes that have mingled with a variety of racial and ethnic groups worldwide and accept converts from different racial backgrounds (Glass Walkers, (namely the Bone Gnawers, Gnawers and Children of Gaia) are keeping their numbers steady or even growing.steady.
7th Nov '16 9:46:32 PM SpectralTime
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** Keep in mind, however, that Garou mentality is based at least as much on the lupine as it is the human way of thinking, and wolves are territorial. After the Impergium, the new-founded Tribes of the newly-divided Garou Nation divided the human population up into "protectorates" (aka breeding herds)amongst themselves. Some of those were regional and so became associated with the ethnicities that lived in the region; the less traditional and more mobile Garou preferred qualities that cut across ethnic lines. In the case of the Silver Fangs (as far as 2nd Ed is concerned), they have sway over the smallest breeding pool, especially after World War 1 killed off or scattered their minor Kin. One major part of the Litany is that Garou should never trespass on another's territory - this goes for human protectorates as well. A Get of Fenris marrying a Chinese might be seen as poaching Stargazer territory by both Tribes.



*** Note that Antonine is concerned that the deteriorating genetic condition in humans due to Weaver wonders serves to do little more in the long run than make them bigger thralls to the Weaver in and of itself. Worse, he sees that, should the technological safety web ever collapse, massive human dieback and suffering will be a given, and that gets worse with every generation, as humans become more and more dependent on such technology to sustain their numbers/those who would be goners if living in a non-technological world. He's basically using the exact same reasoning on humans as humans use on wildlife to justify culls. If this still bothers you, remember that Garou are NOT HUMAN, and should not be treated as such. Also keep in mind that the original role of the Garou was indeed to cull the weak from the human herd, as wolves cull the deer - the Impergium was simply their version of taking things too far when Garou thought humans were overdeveloping. What they managed to do was prevent the creation of successful city-states for several thousand years - which was the entire point of the Impergium in the first place. The point is, that some Garou of MANY tribes do think that the Impergium resulted in them staying their hand a bit too much, and neglecting their traditional role as Darwinian shepherds. It isn't so much the slaughter of "sacred human lives" that is the problem for most Garou - its how they made the mistake of going to extremes once again in refusing to go back to wise culling. If you agree with wildlife managers that culling is "good for the herd", then you have no grounds to complain when another species (which is what Garou essentially are) decide that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Who are Garou to judge what individuals aren't "fit"? Well, who are humans to do the same to judge individuals of other species? - Author of that part of Book of the Weaver.
*** I would also like to add that Mr Teardrop and his two friends would like to point out that the conformist nature of the modern "PC Movement" is _very_ Weaverish in their eyes.



** Homosexuality has never been banned in Garou culture, though some individuals and Tribes may view it with more distaste than others. Dedicated homosexuality, however, is _strongly_ discouraged, for practical reasons of species survival. You can be as gay as you like, but you will be expected to at least _try_ to produce at least a kinfolk or two. Garou attitudes towards formal marriage are similarly lax, also for practical reasons.
18th Sep '16 4:00:16 PM Foxtrot
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Added DiffLines:

***I would also like to add that Mr Teardrop and his two friends would like to point out that the conformist nature of the modern "PC Movement" is _very_ Weaverish in their eyes.
18th Sep '16 3:34:41 PM Foxtrot
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*** Note that Antonine is concerned that the deteriorating genetic condition in humans due to Weaver wonders serves to do little more in the long run than make them bigger thralls to the Weaver in and of itself. Worse, he sees that, should the technological safety web ever collapse, massive human dieback and suffering will be a given, and that gets worse with every generation, as humans become more and more dependent on such technology to sustain their numbers/those who would be goners if living in a non-technological world. He's basically using the exact same reasoning on humans as humans use on wildlife to justify culls. If this still bothers you, remember that Garou are NOT HUMAN, and should not be treated as such. Also keep in mind that the original role of the Garou was indeed to cull the weak from the human herd, as wolves cull the deer - the Impergium was simply their version of taking things too far when Garou thought humans were overdeveloping. What they managed to do was prevent the creation of successful city-states for several thousand years - which was the entire point of the Impergium in the first place. The point is, that some Garou of MANY tribes do think that the Impergium resulted in them staying their hand a bit too much, and neglecting their traditional role as Darwinian shepherds. It isn't so much the slaughter of "sacred human lives" that is the problem for most Garou - its how they made the mistake of going to extremes once again in refusing to go back to wise culling. - Author of that part of Book of the Weaver.

to:

*** Note that Antonine is concerned that the deteriorating genetic condition in humans due to Weaver wonders serves to do little more in the long run than make them bigger thralls to the Weaver in and of itself. Worse, he sees that, should the technological safety web ever collapse, massive human dieback and suffering will be a given, and that gets worse with every generation, as humans become more and more dependent on such technology to sustain their numbers/those who would be goners if living in a non-technological world. He's basically using the exact same reasoning on humans as humans use on wildlife to justify culls. If this still bothers you, remember that Garou are NOT HUMAN, and should not be treated as such. Also keep in mind that the original role of the Garou was indeed to cull the weak from the human herd, as wolves cull the deer - the Impergium was simply their version of taking things too far when Garou thought humans were overdeveloping. What they managed to do was prevent the creation of successful city-states for several thousand years - which was the entire point of the Impergium in the first place. The point is, that some Garou of MANY tribes do think that the Impergium resulted in them staying their hand a bit too much, and neglecting their traditional role as Darwinian shepherds. It isn't so much the slaughter of "sacred human lives" that is the problem for most Garou - its how they made the mistake of going to extremes once again in refusing to go back to wise culling. If you agree with wildlife managers that culling is "good for the herd", then you have no grounds to complain when another species (which is what Garou essentially are) decide that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Who are Garou to judge what individuals aren't "fit"? Well, who are humans to do the same to judge individuals of other species? - Author of that part of Book of the Weaver.
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