History YMMV / TheUltimates

* AndYouThoughtItWouldFail: To say that Marvel had absolutely no faith in an Ultimate Universe reimagining of the Avengers is an understatement, as they wouldn't even allow Mark Millar to actually ''call'' the team "Avengers", and only green-lit the comic because Millar was that adamant about writing it (Marvel would have preferred a spin-off of ''ComicBook/UltimateXMen'' centered on Wolverine, but Millar prevailed). ''Ultimates'' was a smash hit, and this, followed by Bendis' relaunch of the Avengers and the ''ComicBook/CivilWar'' CrisisCrossover (with the Avengers as lead characters), greatly boosted the team's popularity after decades of playing second fiddle to Spider-Man and the X-Men. And then the Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse (which took a lot of inspiration from ''The Ultimates'') catapulted the Avengers into even higher levels of popular recognition beyond the comic book niche market.

* {{Asspull}} Tony's brain tumor was actually an Infinity Gem. How that makes sense is anyone's guess.

* FranchiseOriginalSin: Creator/JephLoeb's run started the downfall of the Ultimate line, but even the early stuff by Creator/MarkMillar has started to be criticized for the same reasons the later stuff has been, including making the protagonists into very dark antiheroes, the incestous relationship of the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, and his characterizations of the Hulk being a cannibal and Hank Pym an unrepentant abusive husband.

* HeartwarmingInHindsight: During the funeral for the people killed by Hulk, we can see an elder woman being hugged by a blonde teenager. This was from before Gwen Stacy moved to live with the Parkers in ''ComicBook/UltimateSpiderMan'' and became close with Aunt May (specially after Peter's death, that left them alone). If this story was made a bit later in the setting's history, those two could have been them.

* AuthorsSavingThrow: When first introduced by Millar, Thor speaks with normal English. The reviled ''Ultimates 3'' had him speaking in FloweryElizabethanEnglish, like the mainstream version of the character. In a later point, Tony promises him that he would donate a huge sum of money to some charity if he goes back to speaking like a normal person, as he knows he can do.

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Fans and critics alike praised Reed Richards' descent into villainy, when he became [[ComicBook/UltimateFantasticFour The Maker]], to the point that he became a CanonImmigrant to the 616 earth after ''ComicBook/SecretWars2015''.

* CompleteMonster: Second Annual: Armin Zola is just as twisted as his Earth-616 counterpart. A [[MadScientist scientist]] working for the [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazis]] in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, Zola [[PlayingWithSyringes experiments]] on concentration camp inmates, in order to create SuperSoldiers for the Third Reich. Zola's experiments usually result in death, with the grounds of his castle littered with mutilated corpses, some corpses even stuck on pikes, and the castle acts as a de facto camp with more inmates imprisoned so Zola can experiment on them later. Captain America confronts Zola and defeats him, with Captain America thinking him dead; the US government saves Zola's life, so he can make weapons for them. Zola eventually dies, but the US government uses his brainwaves to create an AI so that Zola can continue to make weapons for them. One day a white supremacist named [[RightWingMilitiaFanatic Thomas Jenks]], leader of a gang called the Marauders, attacks the facility holding the Zola AI, freeing it, thinking Zola will help his cause. Zola [[UngratefulBastard repays Jenks]] by turning him into a 12-foot mindless hulking monster called [=''SeigSoldat-X''=] and using his body to host Zola's AI program. Zola has the Marauders kidnap minorities across the US, so he can experiment on them, resulting in several more gruesome murders.

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Fans and critics alike praised Reed Richards' descent into villainy, when he became ComicBook/TheMaker, to the point that he became a CanonImmigrant to the 616 earth after ''ComicBook/SecretWars2015''.

* {{Squick}}: After Mark Millar just implied (albeit not with that much subtlety) it through ''Ultimates'' and ''Ultimates 2'', Jeph Loeb confirmed that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch had BrotherSisterIncest. And portrays Captain America as an old-fashion dinosaur for being the only one weirded out by this, with Wasp defending it.

* {{Asspull}}
** Tony's brain tumor was actually an Infinity Gem. How that makes sense is anyone's guess.
** Pym attacked Jan with ants, almost killed her, and ran away. Next issue, paramedics take her to the hospital and Captain America decides to avenge her. But how do we know that it was Pym? Oh, the neighbors can hear them discussing at home. How could the paramedics grow her back to regular size? They didn't need to: she was in a coma, but she managed to grow up when they arrived (and let's not think about that big desk she had inside). And what were the paramedics doing in there to begin with? Called by the neighbors, perhaps?

* CaptainObviousReveal: Black Panther was actually Cap the whole time? It'd probably be a bit more shocking if it hadn't been so blatantly telegraphed from the outset.
* CatharsisFactor
** After all the destruction that Banner unleashes in New York by turning himself into Hulk, it's a relief to see that Captain America, who seemed to be about to have him be EasilyForgiven, was just getting close to give him a well deserved kick in the face.
** Also, after all he did to poor Jan, it was another relief to see Captain America beat the crap out of Pym (even regardless of his giant size).

* CompleteMonster:
** [[ComicBook/TheUltimates2002 2002 (original) series]]: The Chitauri general known as "Herr Kleiser" is an alien who seeks the enslavement or destruction of humankind. Having worked with the Nazis during UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, fully endorsing their [[PoWCamp concentration camps]] and war crimes and even trying to work with them in bombing London to oblivion, Kleiser goes into hiding only to return decades later, wiping out tens of thousands of ComicBook/{{SHIELD}} agents to eliminate opposition. After attempting to [[WaterSourceTampering poison the water supplies]] of the world and dumb down humanity, Kleiser is given the order by his Chitauri superiors to destroy Earth, and happily prepares to activate a bomb to wipe out the entire solar system Earth resides in, remarking it's only a shame because he wanted time to molest and murder [[ComicBook/TheWasp Janet van Dyne]]. Though only one member of the Chitauri, Kleiser is shown to be the absolute worst his race has to offer.
** Second Annual: Armin Zola is just as twisted as his Earth-616 counterpart. A [[MadScientist scientist]] working for the [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazis]] in UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, Zola [[PlayingWithSyringes experiments]] on concentration camp inmates, in order to create SuperSoldiers for the Third Reich. Zola's experiments usually result in death, with the grounds of his castle littered with mutilated corpses, some corpses even stuck on pikes, and the castle acts as a de facto camp with more inmates imprisoned so Zola can experiment on them later. Captain America confronts Zola and defeats him, with Captain America thinking him dead; the US government saves Zola's life, so he can make weapons for them. Zola eventually dies, but the US government uses his brainwaves to create an AI so that Zola can continue to make weapons for them. One day a white supremacist named [[RightWingMilitiaFanatic Thomas Jenks]], leader of a gang called the Marauders, attacks the facility holding the Zola AI, freeing it, thinking Zola will help his cause. Zola [[UngratefulBastard repays Jenks]] by turning him into a 12-foot mindless hulking monster called [=''SeigSoldat-X''=] and using his body to host Zola's AI program. Zola has the Marauders kidnap minorities across the US, so he can experiment on them, resulting in several more gruesome murders.
* ContestedSequel: Ultimate Avengers, while an improvement over Ultimates 3, has still gotten much more mixed reception than the original two volumes. While the return to the more grounded, political and comedic tone was appreciated, the stories were also criticized for overreliance on edgy shock value, many moments of unintentional silliness and lacking the thoughtful political critique of the originals.

* DorkAge: ''ComicBook/TheUltimates3'' was widely derided for its inconsistent characterization and convoluted plot. And being a miniseries that sets up the unliked ''ComicBook/{{Ultimatum}}'' does not help.

* EvenBetterSequel: The first series is generally considered great, but ''Ultimates II'' is considered better by many for its more complex story, stronger action scenes, and more charismatic villains.
* EveryoneIsSatanInHell
** When Captain America wakes up in the hospital, general Nick Fury told him that he had been out for 57 years. He goes mad and starts attacking everyone, thinking that he's still in WWII and he's inside a nazi trap trying to manipulate him. He told Fury "Sorry, Fritz. The accent's flawless, but you really should have done your homework. The highest-ranking black man in the US army is a Brooklyn-born Captain I grew up with". This is sometimes cited as a proof of Ultimate Captain America being racist. Actually, that's just a superficial reading. He is correct that in the 1940s US there was a higher discrimination against black people, and the idea of a black general leading an organization such as SHIELD, [[DeliberateValuesDissonance mundane in 2001, would have been unconceivable back in the day]] (the civil rights movements that led to their current public acceptance wouldn't take place until a pair of decades later). Cap is clearly not actively endorsing that racism, but just mentioning it as proof that he found "AGlitchInTheMatrix" in the nazi deception that he thought he was caught. It is worth noting that he worked for years under Fury since things were clarified a pair of scenes later, and never voiced any racist comment towards him.(though why he would think that a black man would be working for the notorious white supremacist police state Nazi Germany rather than the more reasonable "things may have improved in the 57 years I was frozen" is anyone guess.)
** When Herr Kleiser suggested Captain America to surrender and ask for a MercyKill, he got an HeroicSecondWind and asked "You think this letter on my head stands for France?". Some people found it out of character for Captain America, as there was a French resistance to the Nazi occupation (even the trope namers of LaResistance), and someone like Captain America would have likely fought alongside them. However, not all of France was in the resistance. There was a [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France Vichy France]] as well, with people that embraced the Nazi occupation (even the trope namers of LesCollaborateurs), and someone like Captain America would have likely fought ''against'' them. And the mention to the French "surrender" is not wrong: the French Third Republic surrendered to Nazi Germany in a formal ceremony on June 22, 1940 at Compiegne. Lacking further information about Ultimate Captain America's history with the French (which was never explored in further detail), the idea of him resenting them is as plausible as the one of him praising them.
* FranchiseOriginalSin: Creator/JephLoeb's run started the downfall of the Ultimate line, but even the early stuff by Creator/MarkMillar has started to be criticized for the same reasons the later stuff has been, including making the protagonists into very dark antiheroes, and his characterizations of the Hulk being a cannibal and Hank Pym an unrepentant abusive husband.
* FunnyAneurysmMoment: After the third volume, Quicksilver questioning Wanda if she was flirting with one of Hank Pym's robots turned from just a little MythologyGag regarding her relationship with Vision into this for two reasons: the first being that the robot fell in love with her, resulting in it becoming Ultimate Ultron and murdering her, alongside the realization that that comment might have been Quicksilver being ''[[BrotherSisterIncest jealous.]]''

* HarsherInHindsight:
** [[spoiler: In ''The Ultimates 3'', the Blob says to Wasp "[He's] going to eat [her] up." Come ''ComicBook/{{Ultimatum}}'', he makes good on this.]]
** In the first series, we find out that Hawkeye calls his wife and kids before ''every'' mission, just in case it's his last one. He thinks that, with his line of work, he may die any day. But in the second miniseries, it is ''them'' who are killed.

** [[Creator/SamuelLJackson Nick Fury]] gives us this little gem: "This nose has been smashed more often than [[Film/IronMan Robert Downey Jr]]."
** While on the subject, when the Ultimates and Fury are sitting around discussing who would play them in a potential movie adaptation of their exploits, Nick Fury is quick to say that he would want to have none other than Samuel L. Jackson cast as him and only him with no exceptions. Six years later, who else but the most famous most baddest of mofos would approach [[Film/IronMan Tony Stark (played by RDJ)]] to discuss [[Film/TheAvengers2012 the Avenger Initiative]]? Though of course, Fury was already drawn to resemble Jackson on the condition that he could play Fury in movies.

** The Ultimates fight a highly destructive battle against Hulk in the city. The SHIELD tapes of the battle are sold to the public and became a real hit, more than fifteen million copies of the DVD. Some years later, a film based on the Ultimates, ''Film/TheAvengers2012'' becomes a real-world hit. And, [[https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/avengers-damage-manhattan-would-cost-160-billion-322486 according to disaster experts]], the disaster seen in the climax would have costed $160 billion to fix if it took place in real life (topping even 9/11, Hurricane Katrina and the Japanese tsunami). And both works [[MonumentalDamage destroy Grand Central Station]]: in the Ultimates Iron Man smashes Hulk into it, in the Avengers a starship crashes on it.

** [[spoiler: Black Widow]] arranging for the deaths of Hawkeye's family.
** For Hank Pym, there his attempt to kill the Wasp after the two have an argument, including spraying her with bug spray and siccing ants on her after she shrunk.

** ''Vol. 3'' gets special accolades for the ''worst'' BondOneLiner imaginable:
-->'''Ant-Man''': "If she's the mother... ''I'm the mother-fucker''!"
** Thor's dialogue in ''3'', thanks in no part to Ye Crappy Faux-Shakespearian English. And worse, Valkyrie's imitation Faux-Shakespearian English.
** You never thought you'd see the day ComicBook/{{Ultron}} call himself and other robots vibrators in a villain monologue, did you?
** From ''Vol 1'' The Hulk gives us this immortal line:
-->'''Hulk:''' HULK WANT FREDDIE PRINZE JR!
** In fact a majority of Hulk's lines fall directly into Narm territory. Especially the time he creepily told Thor that being pummeled by Thor's hammer "only makes Hulk hornier".

** ''Ultimates 3'' and its plot (if it even can be called that) is so random and nonsensical that it's hard to take anything that happens in it seriously.

* SpoiledByTheFormat: ''The Ultimates 2'' had delays, and the second annual was eventually published before it ended. It is set after the ending of the arc, and although it does not go into great detail, it spoils that there is a huge battle and New York is devastated.
* StrangledByTheRedString: In ''3'', Thor and Valkyrie (who has suddenly joined the team out of nowhere) are in a relationship. No build-up, nothing in any previous comics about this, but suddenly Thor is waxing about her as being the woman he loves, complete with ludicrously over-the-top kiss scenes, and no indication as to ''why'' Thor cares so much about her.
* {{Squick}}:
** After Mark Millar just implied (albeit not with that much subtlety) it through ''Ultimates'' and ''Ultimates 2'', Jeph Loeb confirmed that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch had BrotherSisterIncest. And portraits Captain America as an old-fashion dinosaur for being the only one weirded out by this, with Wasp defending it.
** In a related note, Wolverine's flashback to how this got started has him spying on the two, as teenagers, when they started doing it. Even for Ultimate Wolverine, that's just plain creepy.

* TooBleakStoppedCaring: ''Ultimates 3'' completely abandoned the superhero deconstruction of the first two miniseries and featured instead a standard story of robot duplicates and a conflict with Magneto. And the awesome cinematic scenes of the first miniseries were replaced by shocking arts taken straight from the worst moments of UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks. As a result, many readers gave up on the series at this point.

* WhatAnIdiot: Giant Man, having the element of surprise, managed to get the Hulk problem well in hand.
-->'''You'd expect:''' That he would keep him that way until Iron Man and Captain America arrive to the area, and help to subdue him.\\
-->'''Instead:''' He opens his hand, expecting to find Hulk all nice and relaxed. It's a miracle that he didn't lose his head right there.
* WhatTheHellCostumingDepartment: Hank’s Giant Man costume is not Bryan Hitch's best creation. Even in-universe, the characters rag on it, with Jan telling him it makes him look like a serial killer.

** The Red Skull, like his mainstream counterpart has plenty, but one of his worst is [[spoiler: threatening to kill the child of the woman who's become Swarm/Red Wasp if she didn't kill her husband--only to kill the baby, anyway, and have have her gang-raped]].

** When Captain America wakes up in the hospital, general Nick Fury told him that he had been out for 57 years. He goes mad and starts attacking everyone, thinking that he's still in WWII and he's inside a nazi trap trying to manipulate him. He told Fury "Sorry, Fritz. The accent's flawless, but you really should have done your homework. The highest-ranking black man in the US army is a Brooklyn-born Captain I grew up with". This is sometimes cited as a proof of Ultimate Captain America being racist. Actually, that's just a superficial reading. He is correct that in the 1940s US there was a higher discrimination against black people, and the idea of a black general leading an organization such as SHIELD, [[DeliberateValuesDissonance mundane in 2001, would have been unconceivable back in the day]] (the civil rights movements that led to their current public acceptance wouldn't take place until a pair of decades later). Cap is clearly not actively endorsing that racism, but just mentioning it as proof that he found "AGlitchInTheMatrix" in the nazi deception that he thought he was caught. It is worth noting that he worked for years under Fury since things were clarified a pair of scenes later, and never voiced any racist comment towards him.

* ContestedSequel: Ultimate Avengers, while an improvement over Ultimates 3, has still gotten much more mixed reception than the first two Ultimates. While the return to the more grounded, political and comedic tone was appreciated, the stories were also criticized for overreliance on edgy shock value, many moments of unintentional silliness and lacking the thoughtful political critique of the originals.

* DorkAge: ''Ultimates 3'' was widely derided for its inconsistent characterization and convoluted plot. And being a miniseries that sets up the unliked ''ComicBook/{{Ultimatum}}'' does not help.

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: ''Ultimates 3'' completely abandoned the superhero deconstruction of the first two miniseries and featured instead a standard story of robot duplicates and a conflict with Magneto.

* DorkAge: ''Ultimates 3'' was widely derided for its inconsistent characterization and convoluted plot.

* SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: Bryan Hitch's knack for realism and talent for "widescreen" panels make the reader feel like he/she is watching a big budget action movie on in a comic book. Coupled with Mark Millar's gritty and cynical deconstruction style of writing, is it any wonder the first two volumes are so fondly remembered?

** In the scene where the Ultimates discuss who would play them in a movie, Hank--who's infamously depicted as a domestic abuser in this version--suggests that Creator/JohnnyDepp play him. Depp's personal life became a matter of scrutiny after his very public divorce from Creator/AmberHeard in 2016, whose marriage was a deeply messy and abusive affair, which took a major toll on his reputation.

* DorkAge: ''Ultimates 3'' was widely derided for its inconsistent characterization and convoluted plot. Also, ''New Ultimates'' to a lesser extent.

* SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped: Back in World War II, Bucky liked cigarettes. In the modern day, he's an old man, with cancer. Nowadays, everybody is fully aware that smoking gives cancer, but it's not a bad idea to remind it from time to time: many people still smoke.

* DorkAge: ''Ultimates 3'' was widely derided for its inconsistent characterization, odd art style, and convoluted plot. Also, ''New Ultimates'' to a lesser extent.

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: ''Ultimates 3'' completely abandoned the superhero deconstruction of the first two miniseries and featured instead a standard story of robot duplicates and a conflict with Magneto. And the awesome cinematic scenes of the first miniseries were replaced by shocking arts taken straight from the worst moments of UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks.

** After Mark Millar just implied (albeit not with that much subtlety) it through ''Ultimates'' and Ultimates 2'', Jeph Loeb, for reasons known only to himself, decided to outright confirm that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were in a sexual relationship. And portray Captain America as an old-fashion dinosaur for being the only one weirded out by this, with Wasp defending it.

** The reason Black Widow II and Nick Fury got divorced? [[spoiler:Over a period of few months, [[YourCheatingHeart he somehow cheated on her]] with ''every single female relative and friend she had''.]]

* SoBadItsGood: The common view of ''Ultimate Comics: Avengers'', which was Millar at his most utterly ridiculous, to the point of often being suggested to be a StealthParody. Every single character is wildly unsympathetic, while the plots are simultaneously DarkerAndEdgier ''and'' DenserAndWackier''.

%%* DorkAge: Ultimates 3. Also, New Ultimates to a lesser extent.

** In the scene where the Ultimates discuss who would play them in a movie, Hank--who's infamously depicted as a domestic abuser in this version--suggests that Creator/JohnnyDepp play him. Depp was FALSELY accused of domestic violence against his wife Creator/AmberHeard in 2016, which took a major toll on his reputation.
** In the first series we find out that Hawkeye calls his wife and kids before ''every'' mission, just in case it's his last one. He thinks that, with his line of work, he may die any day. But on the second miniseries, it is ''them'' who are killed.