History YMMV / TheSilmarillion

20th Jul '16 2:48:28 AM Shadowgazer
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** Maeglin is known as the only elf ever to betray his people and make a pact with [[BigBad Morgoth]] after being promised Idril's hand and led the Angband troops to Gondolin causing the destruction of the once indomitable city and the slaughter of lots of his fellow elves. And even then he tried without any remorse to murder young Earendil personally and fought Tuor until Tuor threw him into the ashes of the city that he caused.
7th Jul '16 10:43:36 PM superboy313
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** [[BigBad Melkor]], later known as Morgoth Bauglir, begins life as one of the Valar, but his spite and arrogance precipitates his steady downfall into evil. Melkor begins by destroying the great lamps of Valinor and creating the pits of Utumno, where he takes as many races as he can and personally enacts [[ColdBloodedTorture hideous, unspeakable tortures]] upon them until all that remains are grotesque perversions that he can use as his servants. After his first defeat, Morgoth [[UngratefulBastard repays mercy with treachery]]. He proceeds to destroy the world trees, betrays and kills the king of the Noldor elves and [[{{greed}} steals their treasures]], leading to the deaths of many thousands of elves when they pursue him, before he sets up his base of operations in Middle-Earth. He delights in [[TheCorrupter corrupting men into darkness]], manufacturing and playing off corruption in their hearts to set them against each other and their allies. His "crowning achievement" is tricking and beguiling the first men into swearing an oath of eternal fealty to him, meant to enslave the race forever in body and spirit; mortality is considered a gift for Man, as normally souls of Men leave Arda and Morgoth's grasp. Morgoth launches brutal campaigns of slavery and genocide, with just one of the examples being the destruction of Gondolin, the most beautiful and proud elven city, including the full extermination of civilians, who are saved solely by the heroism of the city's warriors. Morgoth enslaves or kills the populations of entire regions. Morgoth also tries to rape the elven princess Luthien out of nothing more than cruel lust. Morgoth ends with no redeeming features whatsoever. At one point, he condemns a man to horrible torture and then enacts a curse to see his children grow, suffer horribly and be rejected by both life and death, solely because the man dared to defy him. An evil god, genocidal conqueror, [[EvilOverlord brutal overlord]], and corrupter, there is no act to evil for Morgoth, who commits petty and grandiose atrocities alike.

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** [[BigBad Melkor]], later known as Morgoth Bauglir, begins life as one of the Valar, but his spite and arrogance precipitates his steady downfall into evil. Melkor begins by destroying the great lamps of Valinor and creating the pits of Utumno, where he takes as many races as he can and personally enacts [[ColdBloodedTorture hideous, unspeakable tortures]] upon them until all that remains are grotesque perversions that he can use as his servants. After his first defeat, Morgoth [[UngratefulBastard repays mercy with treachery]]. He proceeds to destroy the world trees, betrays and kills the king of the Noldor elves and [[{{greed}} steals their treasures]], leading to the deaths of many thousands of elves when they pursue him, before he sets up his base of operations in Middle-Earth. He delights in [[TheCorrupter corrupting men into darkness]], manufacturing and playing off corruption in their hearts to set them against each other and their allies. His "crowning achievement" is tricking and beguiling the first men into swearing an oath of eternal fealty to him, meant to enslave the race forever in body and spirit; mortality is considered a gift for Man, as normally souls of Men leave Arda and Morgoth's grasp. Morgoth launches brutal campaigns of slavery and genocide, with just one of the examples being the destruction of Gondolin, the most beautiful and proud elven city, including the full extermination of civilians, who are saved solely by the heroism of the city's warriors. Morgoth enslaves or kills the populations of entire regions. Morgoth also tries to rape the elven princess Luthien out of nothing more than cruel lust. Morgoth ends with no redeeming features whatsoever. At one point, he condemns a man to horrible torture and then enacts a curse to see his children grow, suffer horribly and be rejected by both life and death, solely because the man dared to defy him. An evil god, genocidal conqueror, [[EvilOverlord brutal overlord]], and corrupter, there is no act to too evil for Morgoth, who commits petty and grandiose atrocities alike.
20th Mar '16 2:16:25 AM Tron80
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* FauxActionGuy: Beren is certainly a BadAss, but his contributions to the quest for a Silmaril are...less than heroic (though no doubt courageous). He immediately gets captured (so Lúthien has to save him), had no plan on how to get into Angband (so Lúthien did it for him), got his stupid hand bitten off ([[RuleOfThree so Lúthien had to heal him]]) by Carcharoth, which also caused an epic wave of destruction in its wake, then later got his ass handed to him again by the same monster (so Huan killed it instead and Luthien had to bargain with Mandos to bring him back). Lúthien and Huan could have done the whole thing without him. He was actually more of a liability than a help.

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* FauxActionGuy: Beren is certainly a BadAss, {{Badass}}, but his contributions to the quest for a Silmaril are...less than heroic (though no doubt courageous). He immediately gets captured (so Lúthien has to save him), had no plan on how to get into Angband (so Lúthien did it for him), got his stupid hand bitten off ([[RuleOfThree so Lúthien had to heal him]]) by Carcharoth, which also caused an epic wave of destruction in its wake, then later got his ass handed to him again by the same monster (so Huan killed it instead and Luthien had to bargain with Mandos to bring him back). Lúthien and Huan could have done the whole thing without him. He was actually more of a liability than a help.
16th Jan '16 7:18:27 AM Shadowgazer
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** The best examples from ''The Silmarillion'' are undoubtedly Celegorm and Curufin, however. They [[SarcasmMode boast]] such great feats as: being the only elves we know of to ever try to [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil to force ]]([[WorldsMostBeautifulWoman Lúthien]]) to marriage and attempt to trample Beren and then kill him out of spite even after he spared their unworthy lives, plotting to have Finrod (their first cousin on their father's side) killed so that they can take his kingdom and actually ''encouraging'' the [[FinalSolution Second]] [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide Kinslaying]] as a direct result of failing to get Lúthien. And yet, after all that, they are still unquestionably, absolutely, utterly against [[BigBad Morgoth]] while being every bit as vile as his servants.

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** The best or rather worst examples from ''The Silmarillion'' a side other than Morgoth's are undoubtedly Celegorm and Curufin, however. They [[SarcasmMode boast]] such great feats as: being the only elves we know of to ever try to [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil to force ]]([[WorldsMostBeautifulWoman Lúthien]]) to marriage and attempt to trample Beren and then kill him out of spite even after he spared their unworthy lives, plotting to have Finrod (their first cousin on their father's side) killed so that they can take his kingdom and actually ''encouraging'' the [[FinalSolution Second]] [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide Kinslaying]] as a direct result of failing to get Lúthien. And yet, after all that, they are still unquestionably, absolutely, utterly against [[BigBad Morgoth]] while being every bit as vile as his servants.
6th Jan '16 5:59:56 AM MagBas
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* CanonSue: Lúthien. She has all the classic elements of this (great power, incredibly beautiful, RebelliousPrincess, accomplishes a deed no one else ever managed, idealized representation of a real person, etc.), but ''[[TropesAreNotBad Tolkien makes it work]]''. The book's mythical style is probably why. Old stories are riddled with larger than life figures that cultures associate themselves with. Lúthien comes as this, and it is pretty clear the stories are painting her as some sort of great example of how to behave. It also helps that she's partly based on Tolkien's adored wife.
21st Dec '15 5:46:47 AM Shadowgazer
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** The best examples from ''The Silmarillion'' are undoubtedly Celegorm and Curufin, however. They [[SarcasmMode boast]] such great feats as: being the only elves we know of to ever try to [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil to force ]] ([[WorldsMostBeautifulWoman on Lúthien]]) to marriage and attempt to trample Beren and kill him out of spite even after he spared their unworthy lives, plotting to have Finrod (their first cousin on their father's side) killed so that they can take his kingdom, actually ''encouraging'' the [[FinalSolution Second]] [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide Kinslaying]] as a direct result of failing to get Lúthien. And yet, after all that, they are still unquestionably, absolutely, utterly against [[BigBad Morgoth]] while being every bit as vile as his servants.

to:

** The best examples from ''The Silmarillion'' are undoubtedly Celegorm and Curufin, however. They [[SarcasmMode boast]] such great feats as: being the only elves we know of to ever try to [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil to force ]] ([[WorldsMostBeautifulWoman on ]]([[WorldsMostBeautifulWoman Lúthien]]) to marriage and attempt to trample Beren and then kill him out of spite even after he spared their unworthy lives, plotting to have Finrod (their first cousin on their father's side) killed so that they can take his kingdom, kingdom and actually ''encouraging'' the [[FinalSolution Second]] [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide Kinslaying]] as a direct result of failing to get Lúthien. And yet, after all that, they are still unquestionably, absolutely, utterly against [[BigBad Morgoth]] while being every bit as vile as his servants.
21st Dec '15 5:30:57 AM Shadowgazer
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** The best examples from ''The Silmarillion'' are undoubtedly Celegorm and Curufin, however. They [[SarcasmMode boast]] such great feats as: being the only elves we know of to ever try to [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil to force ]] ([[WorldsMostBeautifulWoman on Lúthien]]) to marriage and attempt to trample Beren and kill him out of spite even after he spared their unworthy lives, plotting to have Finrod (their first cousin on their father's side) killed so that they can take his kingdom, actually ''encouraging'' the [[FinalSolution Second]] [[WouldBeRudeToSayGenocide Kinslaying]] as a direct result of failing to get Lúthien. And yet, after all that, they are still unquestionably, absolutely, utterly against [[BigBad Morgoth]] while being every bit as vile as his servants.
18th Nov '15 4:25:20 AM Sikon
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* HoYay: Maedhros/Fingon, interpreting their story as a RescueRomance. And on the other side, Melian/Galadriel, which tends to be written as a TeacherStudentRomance.
12th Oct '15 9:20:36 AM MaiaMaiden
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* TokenEvilTeamMate: Celegorm, even more so than Curufin. Like his brother, Celegorm craved power over his oath, but was also a sadistic brute to the point where he was one of the few elves who ever tried to commit rape. And while Tolkien at least made a belated effort to give his brother a PetTheDog moment, he never tried to make Celegorm anything other than a thuggish monster.
** AlternativeCharacterInterpretation Steps in once more. The rape part of the above is heavily contested. Celegorm wanted to marry Lúthien, but it's not said if he wanted to force her to have sex with him against her will, or if he was simply arrogant enough to believe that Lúthien would come to see his merits. Also, "sadistic brute" and "thuggish monster" sound inappropriate descriptions of someone who was the personal friend of Oromë to the point Oromë gave him a precious gift, who had the friendship and loyalty of Huan all the way until the moment he tried to make Lúthien marry him, and who was the personal close friend of Aredhel to the point that she seeked out him rather than her own brother when she left Gondolin. Not to mention the man liked animals, which is a very positive personal trait in any character.
11th Oct '15 11:22:57 AM MaiaMaiden
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** AlternativeCharacterInterpretation Steps in once more. The rape part of the above is heavily contested. Celegorm wanted to marry Lúthien, but it's not said if he wanted to force her to have sex with him against her will, or if he was simply arrogant enough to believe that Lúthien would come to see his merits. Also, "sadistic brute" and "thuggish monster" sound inappropriate descriptions of someone who was the personal friend of Oromë to the point Oromë gave him a precious gift, who had the friendship and loyalty of Huan all until the moment he tried to make Lúthien marry him, and who was the personal close friend of Aredhel to the point that she seeked out him rather than her own brother when she left Gondolin. Not to mention the man liked animals, which is a very positive personal trait in any character.

to:

** AlternativeCharacterInterpretation Steps in once more. The rape part of the above is heavily contested. Celegorm wanted to marry Lúthien, but it's not said if he wanted to force her to have sex with him against her will, or if he was simply arrogant enough to believe that Lúthien would come to see his merits. Also, "sadistic brute" and "thuggish monster" sound inappropriate descriptions of someone who was the personal friend of Oromë to the point Oromë gave him a precious gift, who had the friendship and loyalty of Huan all the way until the moment he tried to make Lúthien marry him, and who was the personal close friend of Aredhel to the point that she seeked out him rather than her own brother when she left Gondolin. Not to mention the man liked animals, which is a very positive personal trait in any character.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheSilmarillion