History YMMV / TheSilmarillion

20th Apr '18 10:27:33 AM TheFuzzinator
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** Eöl, of all people. Nevermind that he was a controlling {{Jerkass}} who deliberately got his wife lost (so she'd have to stay with him), or that he refused to let her leave the forest or ''go out in daylight'', or that the circumstances of their marriage are QuestionableConsent at best (the best the text can do is to say Aredhel was "not wholly unwilling", and that her life "was not hateful to her")...and that's ''before'' he tries to kill his son, and kills Aredhel instead. He (and his marriage) still have defenders.


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** Celeborn's Quenya name is 'Teleporno'.
19th Apr '18 6:53:58 AM SorPepita
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* OneSceneWonder: Azaghâl shows up in exactly one scene of the Silmarilion: during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. And yet, his role *(essentially saving Noldor from being wiped off the map by holding off ''an army of dragons'') is quite memorable.

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* OneSceneWonder: Azaghâl shows up in exactly one scene of the Silmarilion: during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. And yet, his role *(essentially (essentially saving Noldor from being wiped off the map by holding off ''an army of dragons'') is quite memorable.
19th Apr '18 4:01:56 AM SorPepita
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* WhatMeasureIsANonBadass: Beren is certainly a badass, but his contributions to the quest for a Silmaril are...less than heroic (though no doubt courageous). He immediately gets captured (so Lúthien has to save him), had no plan on how to get into Angband (so Lúthien did it for him), got his stupid hand bitten off ([[RuleOfThree so Lúthien had to heal him]]) by Carcharoth, which also caused an epic wave of destruction in its wake, then later got his ass handed to him again by the same monster (so Huan killed it instead and Luthien had to bargain with Mandos to bring him back). It's also important to remember that he was a mortal surrounded by gods, demigods and angels/demons in that quest. Prior to that, he [[OneManArmy fought a one-man guerilla war]] against Morgoth's forces for several years with only woodland creatures for allies, like some combination of Batman/Snow White. And he did it so well, his head was worth the same bounty as that on the High King of the Noldor. In a quest full of some of the most legendarily badass elves on record, a GodOfEvil opposing them, and several unique beings that existed in this time only, it's hard not to be OvershadowedByAwesome.

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* WhatMeasureIsANonBadass: Beren is certainly a badass, but his contributions to the quest for a Silmaril are... less than heroic (though no doubt courageous). He immediately gets captured (so Lúthien has to save him), had no plan on how to get into Angband (so Lúthien did it for him), got his stupid hand bitten off ([[RuleOfThree so Lúthien had to heal him]]) by Carcharoth, which also caused an epic wave of destruction in its wake, then later got his ass handed to him again by the same monster (so Huan killed it instead and Luthien had to bargain with Mandos to bring him back). It's also important to remember that he was a mortal surrounded by gods, demigods and angels/demons in that quest. Prior to that, he [[OneManArmy fought a one-man guerilla war]] against Morgoth's forces for several years with only woodland creatures for allies, like some combination of Batman/Snow White. And he did it so well, his head was worth the same bounty as that on the High King of the Noldor. In a quest full of some of the most legendarily badass elves on record, a GodOfEvil opposing them, and several unique beings that existed in this time only, it's hard not to be OvershadowedByAwesome.
19th Apr '18 4:01:18 AM SorPepita
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** Caranthir is mostly remembered by his angry outburst towards Angrod . This is enough for some people to consider him equally evil to Celegorm and Curufin. While he certainly didn't have great diplomatic talent, you really can't compare his behaviour with everything Celegorm and Curufin did in Nargothrond. Otherwise, he doesn't seem worse than, say , Amrod and Amras ( the Silmarillion version at last) and his later rescue of Haleth's tribe and his allliance with Ulfang's people show that he revised his racist beliefs to some point at least.

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** Caranthir is mostly remembered by his angry outburst towards Angrod .Angrod. This is enough for some people to consider him equally evil to Celegorm and Curufin. While he certainly didn't have great diplomatic talent, you really can't compare his behaviour with everything Celegorm and Curufin did in Nargothrond. Otherwise, he doesn't seem worse than, say , say, Amrod and Amras ( the (the Silmarillion version at last) and his later rescue of Haleth's tribe and his allliance with Ulfang's people show that he revised his racist beliefs to some point at least.
19th Apr '18 3:59:49 AM SorPepita
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* GatewaySeries: This is basically a rite of passage for any serious Tolkien fan. While not everyone who reads the book has the patience or willpower for the hardcore notes, family trees, conjecture, and scholarly work with ''Unfinished Tales'' or ''The History of Middle-Earth'', its still a great crash course of the mythos.

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* GatewaySeries: This is basically a rite of passage for any serious Tolkien fan. While not everyone who reads the book has the patience or willpower for the hardcore notes, family trees, conjecture, and scholarly work with ''Unfinished Tales'' or ''The History of Middle-Earth'', its it's still a great crash course of the mythos.
15th Apr '18 12:04:54 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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* IronWoobie: Túrin Turambar.
* JerkassHasAPoint: Yes -- Feanor's actions both before and after Ungoliant's rampage across Valinor were inexcusable. And yet he was the only one to point out one very AwfulTruth -- the Valar had failed in their vigilance. They were at best inept in keeping both Morgoth and Ungoliant out of their lands -- never mind the fact that it was [[GoodCannotComprehendEvil Manwe who had allowed Morgoth to go free in the first place]].

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* %%* IronWoobie: Túrin Turambar.
* JerkassHasAPoint: Yes -- Feanor's actions both before and after Ungoliant's rampage across Valinor were inexcusable. And yet he was the only one to point out one very AwfulTruth -- the Valar had failed in their vigilance. They were at best inept in keeping both Morgoth and Ungoliant out of their lands -- never mind the fact that it was [[GoodCannotComprehendEvil Manwe who had allowed Morgoth to go free in the first place]].
Turambar.
15th Apr '18 12:02:50 PM ACW
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** [[BigBad Melkor]], later known as Morgoth Bauglir, begins life as one of the Valar, but his spite and arrogance precipitates his steady downfall into evil. Melkor begins by destroying the great lamps of Valinor and creating the pits of Utumno, where he takes as many races as he can and personally enacts [[ColdBloodedTorture hideous, unspeakable tortures]] upon them until all that remains are grotesque perversions that he can use as his servants. After his first defeat, Morgoth [[UngratefulBastard repays mercy with treachery]]. He proceeds to destroy the world trees, betrays and kills the king of the Noldor elves and [[{{greed}} steals their treasures]], leading to the deaths of many thousands of elves when they pursue him, before he sets up his base of operations in Middle-Earth. He delights in [[TheCorrupter corrupting men into darkness]], manufacturing and playing off corruption in their hearts to set them against each other and their allies. His "crowning achievement" is tricking and beguiling the first men into swearing an oath of eternal fealty to him, meant to enslave the race forever in body and spirit; mortality is considered a gift for Man, as normally souls of Men leave Arda and Morgoth's grasp. Morgoth launches brutal campaigns of slavery and genocide, with just one of the examples being the destruction of Gondolin, the most beautiful and proud elven city, including the full extermination of civilians, who are saved solely by the heroism of the city's warriors. Morgoth enslaves or kills the populations of entire regions. Morgoth also tries to rape the elven princess Luthien out of nothing more than cruel lust. Morgoth ends with no redeeming features whatsoever. At one point, he condemns a man to horrible torture and then enacts a curse to see his children grow, suffer horribly and be rejected by both life and death, solely because the man dared to defy him. An evil god, genocidal conqueror, [[EvilOverlord brutal overlord]], and corrupter, there is no act too evil for Morgoth, who commits petty and grandiose atrocities alike.

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** [[BigBad [[SorcerousOverlord Melkor]], later known as [[GodOfEvil Morgoth Bauglir, begins Bauglir]], began life as one of the Valar, but his spite and arrogance precipitates precipitated his steady downfall into evil. Melkor begins Beginning by destroying the great lamps of Valinor and creating the pits of Utumno, where he Morgoth takes as many races as he can and personally enacts [[ColdBloodedTorture hideous, unspeakable tortures]] upon them until all that remains are grotesque perversions that he can use as his servants. After Following his first defeat, Morgoth [[UngratefulBastard repays mercy with treachery]]. He proceeds to destroy treachery, destroying the world trees, betrays and kills killing the king of the Noldor elves and [[{{greed}} steals stealing their treasures]], treasures, leading to the deaths of many thousands of elves when they pursue him, before he sets setting up his base of operations in Middle-Earth. He delights in [[TheCorrupter corrupting men into darkness]], manufacturing and playing off corruption in their hearts to set them against each other and their allies. His "crowning achievement" is tricking and beguiling the first men into swearing an oath of eternal fealty to him, meant to enslave the race forever in body and spirit; mortality is considered a gift for Man, as normally souls of Men leave Arda and Morgoth's grasp. Morgoth launches brutal campaigns of slavery and genocide, with just one of the examples being including the destruction of Gondolin, the most beautiful and proud elven city, including the full extermination of civilians, who whose citizens are saved solely by the heroism of the city's warriors. Morgoth enslaves or kills the populations of entire regions. Morgoth He also tries to rape the elven princess Luthien out of nothing more than cruel lust. Morgoth ends with no redeeming features whatsoever.lust. At one point, he condemns a man to horrible torture and then enacts a curse to see his children grow, suffer horribly and be rejected by both life and death, solely because the man dared to defy him. An evil god, genocidal conqueror, [[EvilOverlord brutal overlord]], and corrupter, there is no act too evil for Morgoth, who commits petty and grandiose atrocities alike.
26th Jan '18 4:13:39 PM fusilcontrafusil
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** So does [[BigBad Morgoth]]. Apparently, he looks like TheWoobie for some. There is even a major Russian fanfic, ''The Black Book of Arda'', that was even pirate-published as a book, that retells Silm from Woobie!Melkor's viewpoint.

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** So does [[BigBad Morgoth]]. Apparently, he looks like TheWoobie for some. There is even a major Russian fanfic, ''The Black Book of Arda'', that was even pirate-published as a book, that retells Silm from Woobie!Melkor's viewpoint. Alternately, Melkor and Mairon before they corrupted themselves into Morgoth and Sauron and [[PrettyBoy lost their]] [[{{Hunk}} good looks.]]
24th Nov '17 4:15:09 PM TempestKnight
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** One of the minor characters is an elf named [[NamesTheSame Elmo]]. [[Series/SesameStreet We'll let that one sink in]].
24th Nov '17 3:38:11 PM TempestKnight
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* JerkassHasAPoint: Yes -- Feanor's actions both before and after Ungoliant's rampage across Valinor were inexcusable. And yet he was the only one to point out one very AwfulTruth -- the Valar had failed in their vigilance. They were at best inept in keeping both Morgoth and Ungoliant out of their lands -- never mind the fact that it was [[GoodCannotComprehendEvil Manwe who had allowed Morgoth to go free in the first place]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheSilmarillion