History YMMV / TheSiege

29th Feb '16 8:18:41 AM Kalaong
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Added DiffLines:

** General Devereaux is arrested for first-degree premeditated homicide in regards to the torture and murder of a single suspect. After the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse Abu Ghraib]] scandals, absolutely ''zero'' enlisted personnel were tried for '''any crimes whatsoever.'''[[note]]Several were released from duty, but not tried for any crimes.[[/note]] Ultimately, it's as if Devereaux got off, but ''all his men'' were blamed for '''his''' crimes!
31st Dec '15 11:37:45 PM dmcreif
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** From a rather specific point of view, they're all right: Hubbard's steadfast belief in the law is what you'd expect from an FBI agent, but it's utterly useless against the dedicated terrorists he's up against. Elise's attempts to sway and use people have their uses, as she's able to help identify several cells and gather needed intelligence to take them down, but the blowback from her operations years before the main plot were what set everything off. And Devereaux specifically argued against martial law, and specifically stated that he didn't want to do it, but he was ordered to and therefore he was doing it. He's not wrong to follow orders, and he has the best intentions in mind, but he does take it too far without realizing it.

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** From a rather specific point of view, they're all right: Hubbard's steadfast belief in the law is what you'd expect from an FBI agent, but it's utterly useless against the dedicated Islamic terrorists he's up against.who will die for their cause. Elise's attempts to sway and use people have their uses, as she's able to help identify several cells and gather needed intelligence to take them down, but the blowback from her operations years before the main plot were what set everything off. And Devereaux specifically argued against martial law, and specifically stated that he didn't want to do it, but he was ordered to and therefore he was doing it. He's not wrong to follow orders, and he has the best intentions in mind, but he does take it too far without realizing it.



** This trope is also inverted of sort in that the tipping point is a bombing of an FBI building that kills over 600 people. The movie treats it as the most horrific terrorist act that could ever happen in the US. As it turns out, the planners behind 9/11 had a scarier idea. Though in the movie, part of the reason the attack on One Federal Plaza was so devastating was that with the FBI counterterrorism office destroyed, their capability to respond to additional attacks was severely weakened.

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** This trope is also inverted of sort in that the tipping point is a bombing of an FBI building field office that kills over 600 people. The movie treats it as the most horrific terrorist act that could ever happen in the US. As it turns out, More than four times that many people were killed at the planners behind 9/11 had a scarier idea.World Trade Center alone, and more than five times that many once the deaths from the Pentagon and United Airlines Flight 93 are added on. Though in the movie, part of the reason the attack on One Federal Plaza was so devastating was that with the FBI counterterrorism office destroyed, their capability to respond to additional attacks was severely weakened.
24th Oct '15 6:36:36 AM Fireblood
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* HilariousInHindsight: [[Creator/BruceWillis General Devereaux]] says, when explaining how martial law on Brooklyn might look, "[[Film/TheExpendables We will hunt down the enemy, we will find the enemy and we will kill the enemy.]]"

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* HilariousInHindsight: [[Creator/BruceWillis General Devereaux]] says, when explaining how martial law on in Brooklyn might would look, "[[Film/TheExpendables We will hunt down the enemy, we will find the enemy enemy, and we will kill the enemy.]]"



** The initial response to the various terrorist attacks. This is especially most noticeable when Hubbard, Frank and Elise respond to the theater bombing. When they arrive, the fire department has set up an active triage center to treat people who have been injured by shrapnel (dead bodies are being covered up), and at one point, Hubbard's eyes fall on a woman staggering down a staircase with her left arm missing below the elbow.

to:

** The initial response to the various terrorist attacks. This is especially most noticeable when Hubbard, Frank and Elise respond to the theater bombing. When they arrive, the fire department has set up an active triage center to treat people who have been injured by shrapnel (dead bodies are being covered up), and at one point, Hubbard's eyes fall on a woman staggering down a staircase with her left arm missing below the elbow.
19th Sep '15 8:54:48 AM Pren
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Added DiffLines:

* ValuesResonance: It's honestly quite hard to believe that this film was made before 9/11. Devereaux's HeelRealization at the end resonates quite strongly with the racial profiling and curbing of freedoms ever since the attack.
22nd Jun '15 9:54:10 AM dmcreif
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** Denzel Washington plays a cop that unflinchingly upholds the Constitution. Annette Benning plays a CIA Agent that compromises the law and makes mistakes, eventually [[spoiler: getting killed for it]]. Bruce Willis plays a general that ignores the law to protect his country and its people. Guess who is portrayed as being in the right?
** From a rather specific point of view, they're all right: Hubbard's steadfast belief in the law is what you'd expect from an FBI agent, but it utterly fails to work against the dedicated terrorists he's up against. Elise's attempts to sway and use people have their uses, as she's able to help identify several cells and gather needed intelligence to take them down, but the blowback from her operations years before the main plot were what set everything off. And Devereaux specifically argued against martial law, and specifically stated that he didn't want to do it, but he was ordered to and therefore he was doing it. He's not wrong to follow orders, and he has the best intentions in mind, but he does take it too far without realizing it.

to:

** Denzel Washington plays a cop that Hubbard unflinchingly upholds the Constitution. Annette Benning plays Elise Kraft is a CIA Agent that compromises the law and makes mistakes, eventually [[spoiler: getting killed for it]]. Bruce Willis plays a general that General Devereaux ignores the law to protect his country and its people. Guess who is portrayed as being in the right?
** From a rather specific point of view, they're all right: Hubbard's steadfast belief in the law is what you'd expect from an FBI agent, but it it's utterly fails to work useless against the dedicated terrorists he's up against. Elise's attempts to sway and use people have their uses, as she's able to help identify several cells and gather needed intelligence to take them down, but the blowback from her operations years before the main plot were what set everything off. And Devereaux specifically argued against martial law, and specifically stated that he didn't want to do it, but he was ordered to and therefore he was doing it. He's not wrong to follow orders, and he has the best intentions in mind, but he does take it too far without realizing it.it.
* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: Notice how after the bus explodes, and emergency crews break cover, pretty much everyone rushes towards the burning remains of the bus to extinguish the blaze and look for survivors, except for Frank, who immediately rushes to Hubbard's side to check on him.



** Brooklyn under martial law, especially the army's arrival. If Devereaux's response when explaining how it would happen at the committee hearing means nothing ("It will be noisy, it will be scary, and it will ''not'' be mistaken for a VFW parade"), what will?

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** Brooklyn under martial law, especially the army's arrival. If Devereaux's response when explaining how it would happen at Devereaux even opposes the committee hearing means nothing ("It move at first, warning that "It will be noisy, it will be scary, and it will ''not'' be mistaken for a VFW parade"), what will?parade". He's dead serious.
17th Jun '15 10:48:59 PM dmcreif
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** From a rather specific point of view, they're all right: Hub's steadfast belief in the law is what you'd expect from an FBI agent, but it utterly fails to work against the dedicated terrorists he's up against. Elise's attempts to sway and use people have their uses, as she's able to help identify several cells and gather needed intelligence, but the blowback from her offscreen operations set everything off. And Devereaux specifically argued against martial law, and specifically stated that he didn't want to do it, but he was ordered to and therefore he was doing it. He's not wrong to follow orders, and he has the best intentions in mind, but he does take it too far without realizing it.
* HarsherInHindsight: Much of this has to do with the fact that this movie came out three years before 9/11.

to:

** From a rather specific point of view, they're all right: Hub's Hubbard's steadfast belief in the law is what you'd expect from an FBI agent, but it utterly fails to work against the dedicated terrorists he's up against. Elise's attempts to sway and use people have their uses, as she's able to help identify several cells and gather needed intelligence, intelligence to take them down, but the blowback from her offscreen operations years before the main plot were what set everything off. And Devereaux specifically argued against martial law, and specifically stated that he didn't want to do it, but he was ordered to and therefore he was doing it. He's not wrong to follow orders, and he has the best intentions in mind, but he does take it too far without realizing it.
* HarsherInHindsight: Much of this has to do with Terrorist attacks happening in New York City. It can make the fact that this movie came out three years before a bit harder to watch after 9/11.



**The bombing of Bus #5287. It's so sudden that none of the hostages still on the bus even have time to scream.



** Brooklyn under martial law, especially the army's arrival. If the General's response when explaining how it would happen at the committee hearing means nothing ("It will be noisy, it will be scary, and it will ''not'' be mistaken for a VFW parade"), what will?

to:

** Brooklyn under martial law, especially the army's arrival. If the General's Devereaux's response when explaining how it would happen at the committee hearing means nothing ("It will be noisy, it will be scary, and it will ''not'' be mistaken for a VFW parade"), what will?
5th Jun '15 6:17:08 AM dmcreif
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** This trope is also inverted of sort in that the tipping point is a bombing of an FBI building that kills over 600 people. The movie treats it as the most horrific terrorist act that could ever happen in the US. As it turns out, the planners behind 9/11 had a scarier idea...
*** Though part of why that attack was so devastating was that with the FBI counterterrorism office destroyed, their capability to respond to additional attacks was severely weakened.

to:

** This trope is also inverted of sort in that the tipping point is a bombing of an FBI building that kills over 600 people. The movie treats it as the most horrific terrorist act that could ever happen in the US. As it turns out, the planners behind 9/11 had a scarier idea...
***
idea. Though in the movie, part of why that the reason the attack on One Federal Plaza was so devastating was that with the FBI counterterrorism office destroyed, their capability to respond to additional attacks was severely weakened.



* HilariousInHindsight: [[Creator/BruceWillis General Devereaux]] says, at one point, "[[Film/TheExpendables We will hunt down the enemy, we will find the enemy and we will kill the enemy.]]"

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: [[Creator/BruceWillis General Devereaux]] says, at one point, when explaining how martial law on Brooklyn might look, "[[Film/TheExpendables We will hunt down the enemy, we will find the enemy and we will kill the enemy.]]"



** The initial response to the various terrorist attacks. This is especially most noticeable when Hubbard, Frank and Elise respond to the theater bombing. When they arrive, there are enough casualties that the fire department has an active triage center, numerous people are seen with an assortment of physical injuries (or dead bodies are being covered up), or a woman staggering down a staircase with part of her left arm missing.
** Brooklyn under martial law, especially if you are an Arab

to:

** The initial response to the various terrorist attacks. This is especially most noticeable when Hubbard, Frank and Elise respond to the theater bombing. When they arrive, there are enough casualties that the fire department has set up an active triage center, numerous center to treat people are seen with an assortment of physical injuries (or dead who have been injured by shrapnel (dead bodies are being covered up), or and at one point, Hubbard's eyes fall on a woman staggering down a staircase with part of her left arm missing.
missing below the elbow.
** Brooklyn under martial law, especially if you are an Arabthe army's arrival. If the General's response when explaining how it would happen at the committee hearing means nothing ("It will be noisy, it will be scary, and it will ''not'' be mistaken for a VFW parade"), what will?
1st Jun '15 9:25:14 AM dmcreif
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** Terrorist incidents in the United States that happened after this movie, like 9/11 and the Boston Marathon bombings, may not have led to martial law, mass detention, torture by military personnel and use of helicopter gunships in urban areas, but the subsequent counter-insurgency campaign in Iraq used exactly these tactics.

to:

** Terrorist incidents in the United States that happened after this movie, like 9/11 and the Boston Marathon bombings, bombing, may not have led to martial law, mass detention, torture by military personnel and use of helicopter gunships in urban areas, but the subsequent counter-insurgency campaign in Iraq used exactly these tactics.



** This trope is also inverted of sort in that the tipping point is a bombing of an FBI building that leaves 500 officers dead. The movie treats it as the most horrific terrorist act that could ever happen in the US. As it turns out, the planners behind 9/11 had a scarier idea...

to:

** This trope is also inverted of sort in that the tipping point is a bombing of an FBI building that leaves 500 officers dead.kills over 600 people. The movie treats it as the most horrific terrorist act that could ever happen in the US. As it turns out, the planners behind 9/11 had a scarier idea...



** Post 9-11, FOX itself lampshades this by marketing the movie as "Eerily prescient of the 9/11 attack and their aftermath" on the backcopy of the blu-ray DVD edition.
* HilariousInHindsight: "[[Film/TheExpendables We will hunt down the enemy, we will find the enemy and we will kill the enemy.]]"

to:

** Post 9-11, 9/11, FOX itself lampshades this by marketing the movie as "Eerily prescient of the 9/11 attack and their aftermath" on the backcopy of the blu-ray DVD edition.
** The second bombing involves the bombing of the New Victory Theater in Times Square, which results in mass casualties. While no theatres in the vicinity of Times Square have been targeted by bombs, Times Square itself was the target in 2010 of an attempted car bombing.
* HilariousInHindsight: [[Creator/BruceWillis General Devereaux]] says, at one point, "[[Film/TheExpendables We will hunt down the enemy, we will find the enemy and we will kill the enemy.]]"]]"
* NightmareFuel:
**The initial response to the various terrorist attacks. This is especially most noticeable when Hubbard, Frank and Elise respond to the theater bombing. When they arrive, there are enough casualties that the fire department has an active triage center, numerous people are seen with an assortment of physical injuries (or dead bodies are being covered up), or a woman staggering down a staircase with part of her left arm missing.
**Brooklyn under martial law, especially if you are an Arab
30th May '15 11:16:22 PM dmcreif
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* HarsherInHindsight:
** Terrorism on U.S. soil may not have led to martial law, mass detention, torture by military personnel and use of helicopter gunships in urban areas, but the subsequent counter-insurgency campaign in Iraq used exactly these tactics.
** Not as unusual as one thinks. Mass detention certainly did not happen (even the large numbers of Saddam's military captured were more or less released after Baghdad), helicopter gunships were used in urban areas as far back as Korea (and also in Indochina, Grenada, Panama, Yugoslavia, and Afghanistan) and indeed were expected to be utilized in the WWII invasion of Japan. So this is nowhere near as unprecedented as it seems at first... [[FridgeHorror which says something VERY unpleasant about the military]]. WarIsHell indeed.
** This trope is also inverted of sort in that the tipping point is a bombing of an FBI building that leaves 500 officers dead. The movie treats it as the most horrific terrorist act that could ever happen in the US. As it turns out, real life had a scarier idea...
*** Though part of why that attack was so devastating was that with the FBI office destroyed, their capability to respond to additional attacks was severely weakened.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight:
** Terrorism on U.S. soil
HarsherInHindsight: Much of this has to do with the fact that this movie came out three years before 9/11.
**Terrorist incidents in the United States that happened after this movie, like 9/11 and the Boston Marathon bombings,
may not have led to martial law, mass detention, torture by military personnel and use of helicopter gunships in urban areas, but the subsequent counter-insurgency campaign in Iraq used exactly these tactics.
** Not as unusual as one thinks. Mass detention certainly did not happen (even the large numbers of Saddam's Saddam Hussein's military captured were more or less released after Baghdad), helicopter gunships were used in urban areas as far back as Korea (and also in Indochina, Grenada, Panama, Yugoslavia, and Afghanistan) and indeed were expected to be utilized in the WWII invasion of Japan. So this is nowhere near as unprecedented as it seems at first... [[FridgeHorror which says something VERY unpleasant about the military]]. WarIsHell indeed.
** This trope is also inverted of sort in that the tipping point is a bombing of an FBI building that leaves 500 officers dead. The movie treats it as the most horrific terrorist act that could ever happen in the US. As it turns out, real life the planners behind 9/11 had a scarier idea...
*** Though part of why that attack was so devastating was that with the FBI counterterrorism office destroyed, their capability to respond to additional attacks was severely weakened.
3rd Aug '14 8:03:59 AM Generations91
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* {{Anvilicious}}:

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* {{Anvilicious}}: {{Anvilicious}}/SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped:
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