Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / TheSagaOfDarrenShan

Go To

OR

Added: 245

Changed: 242

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Renamed tropr


* QuestionableCasting: When the film adaptation came out, fans were baffled at the casting choices for Larten and Gavner. Not that John C Reilly and William Dafoe are bad actors - in fact, fans said they'd be better suited to the opposite parts.



* WTHCastingAgency: When the film adaptation came out, fans were baffled at the casting choices for Larten and Gavner. Not that John C Reilly and William Dafoe are bad actors - in fact, fans said they'd be better suited to the opposite parts.

to:

* WTHCastingAgency: When the film adaptation came out, fans were baffled at the casting choices for Larten and Gavner. Not that John C Reilly and William Dafoe are bad actors - in fact, fans said they'd be better suited to the opposite parts.

Added: 219

Removed: 219

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AmericansHateTingle: In the western part of the fandom, Glalda and Cyrus are hated due to participating in Kurda's ill-fated plan. However in the Japanese fandom, they're quite popular for being just minor characters.



* AmericansHateTingle: In the western part of the fandom, Glalda and Cyrus are hated due to participating in Kurda's ill-fated plan. However in the Japanese fandom, they're quite popular for being just minor characters.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Misuse as written. Doesn't mention a creator preferred pairing which is needed to count.


* FanPreferredCouple:
** If you look on Fanfiction.Net, Deviant Art or any other poll site, you'll probably notice that Darren/Steve is the most popular. Either because of their tension in the books, because of the subtext they have in the manga, or both. It doesn't help that Takahiro Arai (the artist for the manga) likes them and deliberately added more scenes of them together that weren't in the original books. Also his next work ''Manga/{{Arago}}'' features Arago and Seth, whose designs resemble Steve and Darren respectively.
** Darren and Sam, Sam is prepared to leave his family and his life behind to join a circus just to with Darren (ok and Evra). They have lots of cute moments together with Sam telling Darren he doesn’t care that he’s a vampire. Also in the manga when it’s clear he won’t survive Sam asks Darren to drink his blood.
** Darren/Larten is also very popular towards those who saw their close bond as more than father-and-son.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ShipsThatPassInTheNight: Mika/Kurda is one of the most popular ships, when they have literally one line of communication outside of Kurda's trial, and it's already Mika telling Kurda to shut up. Kurda might be a Launcher because he's the prettiest vampire, but even so. The ship was spawned by a popular fanfic involving them raising a rescued baby together.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:



* AuthorsSavingThrow:
** There were times in which Darren acted like a DesignatedHero, sometimes agreeing to do certain actions because it benefits him more and can be spiteful sometimes. The manga makes him more naive and heroic.
** The manga shows the point of view of other characters, not just Darren like in the novel.
** Kurda's two assistants only exist [[RedShirt to be used as cannon fodder]] and nobody bats an eye when they die. In the manga, Kurda is clearly upset about their deaths and part of why he decides to stay in the Lake of Souls is to be with them forever. They get drawn into a lot of the illustrations, and they even appear on a cover.
** The ending of the books was criticized due to [[spoiler:Darren going back in time so that the events of the series never happen]] and the BlackAndGrayMorality and ambiguous "heroics" of the cast. The manga ending however rectified this by [[spoiler:showing what happened to the rest of the characters after the time-reset, having Darren's friends helping him to deliver the books to Mr. Tall and alternate world!Darren still being friends with Steve]]. The manga ending also puts more emphasis in Darren and Steve's broken friendship, to the point it's a vital part of [[spoiler: Steve deciding to abandon his obsession with becoming a vampire in the new timeline.]]



* UnfortunateImplications: Noted [[https://whispersoftheunknowncom.wordpress.com/2020/06/19/debbie-hemlock-and-her-tragic-injustice/ here]] about the tendency for the adaptations to whitewash Debbie Hemlock. She's very clearly described as brown skinned and dark haired in the books, and the film notably completely replaced her with a white girl called Rebecca...and gave her a monkey tail (just adding to the racial implications).
--> "Debbie was the ONLY character to be completely erased and replaced with [Rebecca] to be Darren’s love interest. For what reason did they need to change specifically her? One of the only black characters in the trilogy the movie was adapting? Why make [Rebecca] white? Why make her a monkey girl?"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Glalda's surname being Erefith. There's no mention of him having a surname either in the novels or manga.

to:

** Due to the age of the series and the fact that it was posted on the Internet more than ten years ago, a lot of people actually believe that Glalda's surname being Erefith. There's no mention of him having a surname either is "Erefith". It was popularized on Wikipedia, and stayed in the novels or manga.fandom conciousness since. And although it is true it's not canon, many fans still prefer to call him that anyway.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Darren's parents Dermot and Angela - GoodParents who love their children very much. First Steve gets paralyzed in their house, and Angela appears to be shouldering some guilt over it (having a child get dangerously ill under your supervision is ultimate AdultFear). Then Darren appears to die, and they were already suspicious of his parting words to them - so it's possible they wondered if Darren was suicidal without them knowing. When Darren returns to his hometown years later, it's said they couldn't bear to stay in the house and had to move away. [[spoiler: Unlike Annie, they never find out their son is still alive]].

to:

** Darren's parents Dermot and Angela - GoodParents who love their children very much. First Steve gets paralyzed in their house, and Angela appears to be shouldering some guilt over it (having a child get dangerously ill under your supervision is ultimate AdultFear).parental worries). Then Darren appears to die, and they were already suspicious of his parting words to them - so it's possible they wondered if Darren was suicidal without them knowing. When Darren returns to his hometown years later, it's said they couldn't bear to stay in the house and had to move away. [[spoiler: Unlike Annie, they never find out their son is still alive]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Steve. Many despise him for his continued antagonistic behavior towards Darren, acting like an UngratefulBastard for his sacrifice and [[spoiler: manipulating the events that resulted in Larten's death]]. Others believe he was forced into villany due to being manipulated by Mr. Tiny from the beginning and feeling betrayed and abandoned by Darren. Also, his friendship and eventual FoeYay with Darren is seen as either one of the best written relationships in the franchise or borderline abuse (Though few would call it very healthy).

to:

** Steve. Many despise him for his continued antagonistic behavior towards Darren, acting like an UngratefulBastard for his sacrifice and [[spoiler: manipulating the events that resulted in Larten's death]]. Others believe he was forced into villany due to being manipulated by Mr. Tiny from the beginning and feeling betrayed and abandoned by Darren. Also, his friendship and eventual FoeYay tension with Darren is seen as either one of the best written relationships in the franchise or borderline abuse (Though few would call it very healthy).



** If you look on Fanfiction.Net, Deviant Art or any other poll site, you'll probably notice that Darren/Steve is the most popular. Either because of their FoeYay in the books, because of the subtext they have in the manga, or both. It doesn't help that Takahiro Arai (the artist for the manga) likes them and deliberately added more scenes of them together that weren't in the original books. Also his next work ''Manga/{{Arago}}'' features Arago and Seth, whose designs resemble Steve and Darren respectively.

to:

** If you look on Fanfiction.Net, Deviant Art or any other poll site, you'll probably notice that Darren/Steve is the most popular. Either because of their FoeYay tension in the books, because of the subtext they have in the manga, or both. It doesn't help that Takahiro Arai (the artist for the manga) likes them and deliberately added more scenes of them together that weren't in the original books. Also his next work ''Manga/{{Arago}}'' features Arago and Seth, whose designs resemble Steve and Darren respectively.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Darren is shipped with almost everyone in the series: from Steve, Sam, Evra, Larten, Debbie, Kurda, etc.

to:

* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Darren is shipped with almost everyone in the series: from Steve, Sam, Evra, Harkat, Larten, Debbie, Kurda, etc.

Added: 191

Changed: 317

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Darren/Larten is also very popular towards those who saw their close bond as more than father-and-son.

to:

** Darren and Sam, Sam is prepared to leave his family and his life behind to join a circus just to with Darren (ok and Evra). They have lots of cute moments together with Sam telling Darren he doesn’t care that he’s a vampire. Also in the manga when it’s clear he won’t survive Sam asks Darren to drink his blood.
** Darren/Larten is also very popular towards those who saw their close bond as more than father-and-son.



** Darren/Sam lots of people wish Sam survived and became a vampire to be with Darren.



* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Darren is shipped with almost everyone in the series: from Steve, Larten, Evra, Debbie, Kurda, etc.

to:

* LauncherOfAThousandShips: Darren is shipped with almost everyone in the series: from Steve, Sam, Evra, Larten, Evra, Debbie, Kurda, etc.

Added: 760

Changed: 232

Removed: 726

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: The series is relentlessly grim, with common criticisms being that nothing ever goes well for anybody.



* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: This is a kid's book series, but the author himself says that he knows people both above and below the series' age demographics read them.
** Book two has R.V. recommend drugs to three 12-year-olds, who don't get the reference... but the readers do.
** Book eight has a character who, though appearing to be fifteen (and probably around the same stage of puberty as any ''real'' teen), is really about 27, first outright saying that he wants to date said real teens ("That's the thing I love about high school girls: I keep getting older, they stay the same age") and then trying to do... ''something'' to his much-older teacher (who is very likely younger than him.)
** Plus, the books are so violent and gory, it's not even funny.

to:

* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: This TooBleakStoppedCaring: The series is a kid's book series, but the author himself says relentlessly grim, with common criticisms being that he knows people both above and below the series' age demographics read them.
** Book two has R.V. recommend drugs to three 12-year-olds, who don't get the reference... but the readers do.
** Book eight has a character who, though appearing to be fifteen (and probably around the same stage of puberty as any ''real'' teen), is really about 27, first outright saying that he wants to date said real teens ("That's the thing I love about high school girls: I keep getting older, they stay the same age") and then trying to do... ''something'' to his much-older teacher (who is very likely younger than him.)
** Plus, the books are so violent and gory, it's not even funny.
nothing ever goes well for anybody.



* WhatDoYouMeanItsForKids: This is a kid's book series, but the author himself says that he knows people both above and below the series' age demographics read them.
** Book two has R.V. recommend drugs to three 12-year-olds, who don't get the reference... but the readers do.
** Book eight has a character who, though appearing to be fifteen (and probably around the same stage of puberty as any ''real'' teen), is really about 27, first outright saying that he wants to date said real teens ("That's the thing I love about high school girls: I keep getting older, they stay the same age") and then trying to do... ''something'' to his much-older teacher (who is very likely younger than him.)
** Plus, the books are so violent and gory, it's not even funny.



* WTHCastingAgency: When the film adaptation came out, fans were baffled at the casting choices for Larten and Gavner. Not that John C Reilly and William Dafoe are bad actors - in fact, fans said they'd be better suited to the opposite parts.

to:

* WTHCastingAgency: When the film adaptation came out, fans were baffled at the casting choices for Larten and Gavner. Not that John C Reilly and William Dafoe are bad actors - in fact, fans said they'd be better suited to the opposite parts.parts.

----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Vancha being the older of the Harst brothers, because he's taller and older-looking compared to Gannen. The Japanese translation has it this way, because in Japanese, it would be an awkward usage to call someone a "brother" without specifying older or younger. ''Literature/TheSagaOfLartenCrepsley'' implies it's the other way around, though.

to:

** Vancha being the older of the Harst brothers, because he's taller and older-looking compared to Gannen. The Japanese translation has it this way, because in Japanese, it would be an awkward usage to call someone a "brother" without specifying older or younger. ''Literature/TheSagaOfLartenCrepsley'' implies says it's the other way around, though.and that Vancha was just a baby when their parents died and Gannen raised him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Back when the series was originally being printed, Darren/Steve was ''the'' series's pairing of choice, to the point where the manga made their friendship more codependant before their fallout. But as the fandom's matured, a lot of the more uncomfortable aspects of their relationship have been acknowledged. Not to mention ''"Sons of Destiny"'' reveals they're related.

to:

** Back when the series was originally being printed, Darren/Steve was ''the'' series's pairing of choice, to the point where the manga made their friendship more codependant before their fallout. But as More recently, the fandom's matured, depth of their connection makes a lot of the more fans uncomfortable aspects of their relationship have been acknowledged. Not -- not to mention ''"Sons of Destiny"'' reveals mention, they're related.uncomfortable with shipping half-siblings, even when the characters didn't grow up as such, and their birth father is some kind of immortal, demonic force.

Added: 1601

Changed: 144

Removed: 463

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ValuesDissonance: Setting example. Although the setting is vague, the books were written and published in Ireland, and the setting can be given away for one very specific plot point: Darren's fake funeral. In the UK, it can often take at least a week to have the wake and service. Ireland by contrast usually does things very quickly - within three or four days. The text implies that Darren was lying for only a couple of days. It's also very clearly Catholic.



** Some fans think the vampaneze characters should have been developed more, that the story should have made them more sympathetic, instead of having them all be either AxCrazy (Murlough, R.V) or extremely strict (Gannen). It would certainly have made Kurda's insistence of saving both sides seem much more well-founded. As it is, it feels like it's trying to get credit for open-mindedness without actually showing any.

to:

** Some fans think the vampaneze characters should have been developed more, that the story should have made them more sympathetic, instead of having them all be either AxCrazy (Murlough, R.V) or extremely strict (Gannen). It would certainly have made Kurda's insistence of saving both sides seem much more well-founded. As it is, it feels like it's trying to get credit for open-mindedness without actually showing any. Or at least, it could have been examined how the vampaneze were radicalized or converted to that cause and therefore why they should be spared.


Added DiffLines:

* ValuesDissonance:
** Setting example. Although the setting is vague, the books were written and published in Ireland, and the setting can be given away for one very specific plot point: Darren's fake funeral. In the UK, it can often take at least a week to have the wake and service. Ireland by contrast usually does things very quickly - within three or four days. The text implies that Darren was lying for only a couple of days. It's also very clearly Catholic.
** Parts of Larten Crepsley's character in earlier books raise a few eyebrows today. The man blackmails a child into becoming a vampire or else he'll let his best friend (another child!) die, because he believes [[AssholeVictim Steve is automatically evil]]. Lots of side effects of becoming a vampire Darren doesn't find out until later, ''particularly'' that he won't be able to have children himself. He acts like a complete {{Jerkass}} to Darren, having NoSympathy for a child that has to fake his own death and witness everyone he knows mourning him. While intended as a stern mentor who slowly TookALevelInKindness, he can come across as a somewhat abusive caretaker by today's standards (especially since he only begins to warm to Darren once the latter starts doing exactly what he wants). Hell, Darren was forced into a situation where he'd eventually have to put his life in danger repeatedly (''Trials of Death'') and didn't know anything about it. It's possible the author realised, since later books establish that what Larten did was against a lot of vampire rules, and other characters call him on his short-sightedness.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Kurda being the youngest of the vampires due to his looks. Jossed, as ''Literature/TheSagaOfLartenCrepsley'' reveals he's actually 30-40 years older than Gavner.

to:

** Kurda being the youngest of the vampires due to his looks. Jossed, as ''Literature/TheSagaOfLartenCrepsley'' reveals he's actually 30-40 In the mountain arc, Kurda is said to be around 120 years older than Gavner.old, and Gavner is just under 107 (since he was just under 100 in book 3). This is confirmed more thoroughly in Larten Saga.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The book ending splits fans pretty evenly. Was [[spoiler:Darren pulling a ResetButton by going back in time as a reconstructed Little Person and scaring away his younger self so that the events of the series never happen in that timeline]] a fitting end to the saga or a cheap cop-out that renders the reader's investment in the series completely pointless?

to:

** The book ending splits fans pretty evenly. Was [[spoiler:Darren pulling a ResetButton by going back in time as a reconstructed Little Person and scaring away his younger self so that the events of the series never happen in that timeline]] to someone else]] -- a fitting end to the saga or a cheap cop-out that renders the reader's investment in the series completely pointless?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Kurda's two assistants only exist [[RedShirt to be used as cannon fodder]] and nobody bats an eye when they die. In the manga, Kurda is clearly upset about their deaths and part of why he decides to stay in the Lake of Souls is to be with them forever.

to:

** Kurda's two assistants only exist [[RedShirt to be used as cannon fodder]] and nobody bats an eye when they die. In the manga, Kurda is clearly upset about their deaths and part of why he decides to stay in the Lake of Souls is to be with them forever. They get drawn into a lot of the illustrations, and they even appear on a cover.

Top