Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / TheDefenceOfDuffersDrift

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The recurring theme, started with the original and kept in all of the follow-up books through the decades is the same style of opening - a freshly-faced, just-got-his-commission EnsignNewbie following what he considers to be "modern" warfare, which from an outside perspective is usually HollywoodTactics (especially when read some years later) at best, blatant stupidity at worst. Except those people are ''trained'' to act like that, time and again, with militaries apparently learning nothing and teaching new generations of [=COs=] all sorts of obvious, basic mistakes or not training them at all toward their tasks.

Added: 1003

Changed: 312

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: One of the first lessons the protagonist learns is to take all the local Dutch civilians prisoner so they can't aid the Boer army. This tactic became widespread during the war, resulting in the creation of concentration camps. The Nazis explicitly took inspiration from this tactic for UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: HarsherInHindsight:
**
One of the first lessons the protagonist learns is to take all the local Dutch civilians prisoner so they can't aid the Boer army. This tactic became widespread during the war, resulting in the creation of concentration camps. The Nazis explicitly took inspiration from this tactic for UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust.UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust.
** ''The Defense of Jisr Al Doreaa'' is a 2009 FollowTheLeader book about counter-insurgency, stressing the importance of not only proper army operation during the occupation phase, but also using it to prop up a functional, trusted, and staffed by locals police and military force that can maintain peace after the occupation force is withdrawn. Not only the conclusion, but Dream No. 5 in particular is a very, very stark description of the events painfully similar to the eventual collapse of Afghanistan's central government mere months after the US withdrew from the country - except it was written as a cautionary tale 12 years earlier ''to prevent events like that from happening''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Soldiers of both sides are treated as FacelessGoons and [[WeHaveReserves resource to be used]] to achieve objectives, with Dream No. 6 openly encouraging sacrificing third of the unit to prevent small enemy detachment from crossing an insignificant river in the complete outback. Since this sort of mentality is one of the main factors that turned World War I into a senseless meat-grinder, it went out of fashion not soon after Swinton retired from the military and is now considered one of the biggest mistakes to be made by a CO, particularly in small unit tactics.

to:

** Soldiers of both sides are treated as FacelessGoons and [[WeHaveReserves resource to be used]] to achieve objectives, with Dream No. 6 openly encouraging sacrificing a third of the unit to prevent a small enemy detachment from crossing an insignificant river in the complete outback. Since this sort of mentality is one of the main factors that turned World War I into a senseless meat-grinder, it went out of fashion not soon after Swinton retired from the military and is now considered one of the biggest mistakes to be made by a CO, particularly in small unit tactics.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Soldiers of both sides are treated as FacelessGoons and [[WeHaveReserves resource to be used]] to achieve objectives, with Dream No. 6 openly encouraging sacrificing third of the unit to prevent small enemy detachment from crossing an insignificant river in the complete outback. Since this sort of mentality is one of the main factors that turned World War I into a senseless meat-grinder, it went out of fashion not soon after Swinton retired from the military and is now considered one of the biggest mistakes to be made by a CO, particularly in small unit tactics.

Added: 4

Changed: 59

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinsurgency tactics since at the very least post-[=WW2=] colonial wars, mainly because it only further antagonise the locals. Ironically, many of the FollowTheLeader books that had to deal with counter-insurgency explicitly show this sort of tactics as a rookie mistake, rather than a lesson to be learned, and explicitly call for being as friendly as only feasible to the locals.
** One of the "lessons" BF recites to himself is to force the "lazy black men" of the surrounding area to dig trenches for his unit. This forced labor is presented as absolutely essential for a successful campaign, but the white farmers he captures are apparently not given the same treatment.

to:

** Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinsurgency tactics since at the very least post-[=WW2=] colonial wars, mainly because it only further antagonise the locals. Ironically, many of the FollowTheLeader books that had to deal with counter-insurgency explicitly show this sort of tactics as a rookie mistake, rather than a lesson to be learned, and explicitly call for being as friendly as only feasible to the locals.
locals - the "mistake" BF makes during his first dream.
** One of the "lessons" BF recites to himself is to force the "lazy black men" of the surrounding area to dig trenches for his unit. This forced labor is presented as absolutely essential for a successful campaign, but the white farmers he captures are apparently not given the same treatment.treatment.
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinsurgency tactics since at the very least post-WW2 colonial wars, mainly because it only further antagonise the locals. Ironically, many of the FollowTheLeader books that had to deal with counter-insurgency explicitly show this sort of tactics as a rookie mistake, rather than a lesson to be learned, and explicitly call for being as friendly as only feasible to the locals.

to:

** Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinsurgency tactics since at the very least post-WW2 post-[=WW2=] colonial wars, mainly because it only further antagonise the locals. Ironically, many of the FollowTheLeader books that had to deal with counter-insurgency explicitly show this sort of tactics as a rookie mistake, rather than a lesson to be learned, and explicitly call for being as friendly as only feasible to the locals.

Added: 477

Changed: 198

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It never worked, but up until the late 40s, nobody had to test it in action


* HarsherInHindsight: One of the first lessons the protagonist learns is to take all the local Dutch civilians prisoner so they can't aid the Boer army. This tactic became widespread during the war, resulting in the creation of concentration camps. The Nazis explicitly took inspiration from this tactic for TheHolocaust.
* ValuesDissonance: Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinsurgency tactics in the modern era, mainly because it no longer has the same effect.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: One of the first lessons the protagonist learns is to take all the local Dutch civilians prisoner so they can't aid the Boer army. This tactic became widespread during the war, resulting in the creation of concentration camps. The Nazis explicitly took inspiration from this tactic for TheHolocaust.
UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust.
* ValuesDissonance: ValuesDissonance:
**
Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinsurgency tactics in since at the modern era, very least post-WW2 colonial wars, mainly because it no longer has only further antagonise the same effect.locals. Ironically, many of the FollowTheLeader books that had to deal with counter-insurgency explicitly show this sort of tactics as a rookie mistake, rather than a lesson to be learned, and explicitly call for being as friendly as only feasible to the locals.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* HarsherInHindsight: One of the first lessons the protagonist learns is to take all the local Dutch civilians prisoner so they can't aid the Boer army. This tactic became widespread during the war, resulting in the creation of concentration camps. The Nazis explicitly took inspiration from this tactic for TheHolocaust.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** BF advises himself to put the "lazy Kaffirs" (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Kaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) to work and dig trenches for the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get too exhausted or upset. The white Boers do not receive that treatment.

to:

** One of the "lessons" BF advises recites to himself is to put force the "lazy Kaffirs" (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Kaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) black men" of the surrounding area to work and dig trenches for his unit. This forced labor is presented as absolutely essential for a successful campaign, but the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get too exhausted or upset. The white Boers do farmers he captures are apparently not receive that given the same treatment.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Spelling


* ValuesDissonance: Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinrgency tactics in the modern era, mainly because it no longer has the same effect.
** BF advises himself to put the "lazy Kaffirs" (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Kaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) to work and dig trenches for the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get to exhausted or upset. The white Boers do not receive that treatment.

to:

* ValuesDissonance: Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinrgency counterinsurgency tactics in the modern era, mainly because it no longer has the same effect.
** BF advises himself to put the "lazy Kaffirs" (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Kaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) to work and dig trenches for the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get to too exhausted or upset. The white Boers do not receive that treatment.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** BF advises himself to put the "lazy" Kaffirs (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Kaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) to work and dig trenches for the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get to exhausted or upset. The white Boers do not receive that treatment.

to:

** BF advises himself to put the "lazy" Kaffirs "lazy Kaffirs" (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Kaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) to work and dig trenches for the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get to exhausted or upset. The white Boers do not receive that treatment.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** BF advises himself to put the "lazy" Khaffirs (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Khaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) to work and dig trenches for the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get to exhausted or upset. The white Boers do not receive that treatment.

to:

** BF advises himself to put the "lazy" Khaffirs Kaffirs (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Khaffir Kaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) to work and dig trenches for the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get to exhausted or upset. The white Boers do not receive that treatment.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** BF advises himself to put the "lazy" Khaffirs (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Khaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) to work and dig trenches for the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get to exhausted or upset. The white Boers do not get that treatment.

to:

** BF advises himself to put the "lazy" Khaffirs (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Khaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) to work and dig trenches for the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get to exhausted or upset. The white Boers do not get receive that treatment.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ValuesDissonance: Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinrgency tactics in the modern era, mainly because it no longer has the same effect.

to:

* ValuesDissonance: Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinrgency tactics in the modern era, mainly because it no longer has the same effect.effect.
** BF advises himself to put the "lazy" Khaffirs (aka African natives - and yes, [[HaveAGayOldTime Khaffir is an extremely offensive term nowadays]]) to work and dig trenches for the soldiers, probably so the soldiers won't get to exhausted or upset. The white Boers do not get that treatment.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ValuesDissonance: Imprisoning civilians and shooting their livestock are generally not considered to be valid counterinrgency tactics in the modern era, mainly because it no longer has the same effect.

Top