History YMMV / TheBlackCauldron

9th Sep '17 6:48:11 PM Nicoaln
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* SeingeldIsUnfunny:

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* SeingeldIsUnfunny: SeinfeldIsUnfunny:
9th Sep '17 6:47:09 PM Nicoaln
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* SeingeldIsUnfunny: Towards the book series it was based off of, it reads almost like a shopping list of cliches. Except one has to consider that the series was originally published in ''the sixties'' - Taran predates ''[[Film/StarWarsANewHope Luke Skywalker]]'' in the "Farm-boy turned hero who befriends a princess".

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* SeingeldIsUnfunny: SeingeldIsUnfunny:
** For the Disney version, this movie actually predated ''Disney/TheGreatMouseDetective'' in the animated canon's use of CGI. These days, it's [[ConspicuousCG very obvious to see the moment it's used]], and it borders upon SpecialEffectFailure. But back in the 80s, that wasn't done before.
**
Towards the book series it was based off of, it reads almost like a shopping list of cliches. Except one has to consider that the series was originally published in ''the sixties'' - Taran predates ''[[Film/StarWarsANewHope Luke Skywalker]]'' in the "Farm-boy turned hero who befriends a princess".
9th Sep '17 6:38:37 PM Nicoaln
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* MisBlamed: Gurgi's mannerisms were not in fact Disney putting in an obvious ComicReliefCharacter - things like talking in the third-person, speaking in redundant phrases, referring to Taran as a lord, and "Munchies and crunchies" are in fact in the books, and Gurgi still does play somewhat of a ComicReliefCharacter.



* SeingeldIsUnfunny: Towards the book series it was based off of, it reads almost like a shopping list of cliches. Except one has to consider that the series was originally published in ''the sixties'' - Taran predates ''[[Film/StarWarsANewHope Luke Skywalker]]'' in the "Farm-boy turned hero who befriends a princess".



** The fact that the Eilonwy is a scullery maid only gets mentioned in passing. We also never find out why she has that bauble and what it is[[note]]In the books, Eilonwy is a descendant of an ancient line of magic wielders, and the bauble is actually the Golden Pelydryn, an heirloom of her house that can be used to reveal the words in their book of spells[[/note]].

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** The fact that the Eilonwy is a scullery maid only gets mentioned in passing. We also never find out why she has that bauble and what it is[[note]]In the books, Eilonwy is a descendant of an ancient line of magic wielders, and the bauble is actually the Golden Pelydryn, an heirloom of her house that can be used to reveal the words in their book of spells[[/note]]. What doesn't help is [[WhatHappenedToTheMouse the last time it's seen is in Morva]].
4th Sep '17 7:41:23 PM hullflyer
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** The fact that the Eilonwy is a scullery maid only gets mentioned in passing. We also never find out why she has that bauble and what it is.

to:

** The fact that the Eilonwy is a scullery maid only gets mentioned in passing. We also never find out why she has that bauble and what it is.is[[note]]In the books, Eilonwy is a descendant of an ancient line of magic wielders, and the bauble is actually the Golden Pelydryn, an heirloom of her house that can be used to reveal the words in their book of spells[[/note]].



** Also the Creeper, who is constantly at the mercy of his overlord. Although he's from the [[JerkassWoobie jerkass veriety]]...

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** Also the Creeper, who is constantly at the mercy of his overlord. Although he's from the [[JerkassWoobie jerkass veriety]]...variety]]...
4th Sep '17 7:36:38 PM hullflyer
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** For some folks, Taran qualifies as one. Most people find his bragging annoying, and they do not like either how he patronizes Eilonwy in a very sexist demeanor ("What does a girl know about swords, anyway!?").

to:

** For some folks, Taran qualifies as one. Most people find his bragging annoying, and they do not like either how he patronizes Eilonwy in a very sexist demeanor ("What does a girl know about swords, anyway!?"). Sadly, this is actually fairly accurate to Book!Taran, and losing this arrogance is part of his character arc in the book series, which the cancellation of any sequels prevented being shown.
4th Sep '17 7:32:42 PM hullflyer
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* NeverLiveItDown: The troubled production and ultimate box office failure of the film shook the Walt Disney Company so much that even after the successful revitalization of its animation department in the years that followed, they largely ignored it for the next decade or so and have released virtually no merchandise tied to it; not even of Princess Eilonwy who remains absent from the Disney Princess lineup. It eventually received a full VHS release and later a DVD release thanks to its respectably cult following, but remains one of its least-publicized pictures. Disney made some noise in 2016 about trying [[TruerToTheText a more faithful adaptation]] of the ''Prydain'' novels in live action, but so far it seems stuck in DevelopmentHell, probably due to this reputation.

to:

* NeverLiveItDown: The troubled production and ultimate box office failure of the film shook the Walt Disney Company so much that even after the successful revitalization of its animation department in the years that followed, they largely ignored it for the next decade or so and have released virtually no merchandise tied to it; not even of Princess Eilonwy who remains absent from the Disney Princess lineup. It eventually received a full VHS release and later a DVD release thanks to its respectably cult following, but remains one of its least-publicized pictures. Disney made some noise in 2016 about trying [[TruerToTheText a more faithful adaptation]] of the ''Prydain'' novels in live action, but so far it seems stuck in DevelopmentHell, probably due to this reputation.reputation, as well as the ''Prydain'' series not being very well known, especially compared to ''Harry Potter'' or ''Narnia''.
17th Aug '17 3:34:10 AM ClintEastwood
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* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff:
** In France, it was the fifth greatest success of 1985, in a stark contrast to its dismal performance domestically.
** The Horned King, for whatever reason, has a moderate level of popularity in Japan, appearing in several video games as the FinalBoss and appearing the center of the Cinderella Castle Mystery Tour at Tokyo Disneyland. Heck, if anything, he's a constant throw in for a possible ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' villain, for what it's worth.

to:

* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff:
** In France, it
GenreTurningPoint: The film was meant to be this for animated Disney movies in general, an attempt to darken and "modernize" the fifth greatest success studios feature film output while also proving that Walt Disney's one-vision method of 1985, film making was still viable in the 1980s. And it ''was'' a stark contrast to turning point... just not in the way that the film makers had hoped; its dismal performance domestically.
**
massive box office failure not only led to a trend of lighter Disney animated films (which culminated with their "true" turning point in 1989, ''Disney/TheLittleMermaid''), but also ended (most of) Walt Disney's methods as solid company policy in favor of a more "Hollywood" style of movie making (stricter deadlines, tighter budgets, more committee meetings, more executive influence, attempts on franchise integration, etc.).
* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff:
The Horned King, for whatever reason, King has a moderate level plenty of popularity attention in Japan, appearing in several video games as Japan. This may have had to do with the FinalBoss and appearing the center of the Cinderella Castle Mystery Tour at extinct attraction in Tokyo Disneyland. Heck, if anything, he's a constant throw Shall we begin?
** 'Mickey Mouse'' on the UsefulNotes/GameBoy
in for 1989 has him as the final boss.
** ''Mickey Mouse II'' on the same system two years later again has him as the final boss.
*** Both of these games replaced him with Witch Hazel when they were converted to the Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle games.
** ''Mickey Mouse III: Dream Balloon'' in 1992 again puts him as the final boss, only to be replaced by Night Mayor when it was converted to ''Kid Klown in Night Mayor World''.
** Finally appeared without alterations in Land of Illusion on the UsefulNotes/GameGear and UsefulNotes/SegaMasterSystem in 1993, although this time colored from older concept art and given the name of "The Phantom." And this was the only time that he appeared in North America and Europe in
a possible ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' villain, for what it's worth.Japanese produced game.
14th Aug '17 7:31:24 PM LadyFanFareKid
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Added DiffLines:

** The fact that the Eilonwy is a scullery maid only gets mentioned in passing. We also never find out why she has that bauble and what it is.
8th Aug '17 2:56:49 PM SpinAttaxx
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* AdaptationDisplacement: Quite possibly an even earlier example of the game overshadowing the movie before ''Film/GoldenEye''.

to:

* AdaptationDisplacement: Quite possibly an It might be fair to say that more people know about ''The Black Cauldron'' than ''Literature/TheChroniclesOfPrydain'', even earlier example of if for the game overshadowing the movie before ''Film/GoldenEye''.wrong reasons.



* BrokenBase: The movie as a whole. Either it's one of Disney's most unique underrated classics, with an enchanting world, likable characters, and a genre Disney hasn't tackled much (high dark fantasy/medieval fantasy ala Lord of the Rings - the closest we have to that is Sleeping Beauty); or it's one of the most generic, cliched movies that tries to be something ambitious but mostly comes off as a poor rip-off, and barely stands out compared to the other fantasy films of the 80s (Labyrinth, The Never-ending Story, The Last Unicorn...).

to:

* BrokenBase: The movie as a whole. Either it's one of Disney's most unique underrated classics, with an enchanting world, likable characters, and a genre Disney hasn't tackled much (high dark fantasy/medieval fantasy ala Lord of the Rings - ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'' -- the closest we have to that is Sleeping Beauty); ''Disney/SleepingBeauty''), or it's one of the most generic, cliched clichéd movies that tries to be something ambitious but mostly comes off as a poor rip-off, and barely stands out compared to the other fantasy films of the 80s (Labyrinth, The Never-ending Story, The Last Unicorn...(''Film/{{Labyrinth}}'', ''Film/TheNeverEndingStory'', ''WesternAnimation/TheLastUnicorn''...).



* CounterpartComparison: With Link. Predating ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda'' by a [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZelda year]], Taran wears clothes and carries a sword strikingly similar to those of Link in his very early years. Plus looting dungeons, working well with animals, wielding a magic sword, having to stop a very old BigBad from getting an artifact of great power, and breaking lots of pots. Also, Eilonwy seems to be this to Zelda.
** Peter Jackson and Andy Serkis seem to have taken inspiration from Gurgi's voice and mannerisms...
*** Heck, the comparisons to The Lord of the Rings don't end there. After all, the story happens to be about a boy from the countryside guided by his elderly mentor to go on a quest to destroy a magical artifact that would kill the evil overlord ruling over the land. You draw your own conclusions from here.

to:

* CounterpartComparison: With Link. CounterpartComparison:
**
Predating ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda'' by a [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZelda year]], Taran wears clothes and carries a sword strikingly similar to those of Link in his very early years. Plus looting dungeons, working well with animals, wielding a magic sword, having to stop a very old BigBad from getting an artifact of great power, and breaking lots of pots. Also, Eilonwy seems to be this to Zelda.
** Peter Jackson Creator/PeterJackson and Andy Serkis Creator/AndySerkis seem to have taken inspiration from Gurgi's voice and mannerisms...
***
mannerisms when it came to Gollum for ''Film/TheLordOfTheRings''... Heck, the comparisons to The Lord of the Rings don't end there. After there; after all, the story happens to be about a boy from the countryside guided by his elderly mentor to go on a quest to destroy a magical artifact that would kill the evil overlord ruling over the land. You draw your own conclusions from here.



* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: In France, it was the fifth greatest success of 1985.
** And [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Japanese Love the Horned King]]: Popular enough to appear in several video games as the Final Boss and to be the center of the Cinderella Castle Mystery Tour at Tokyo Disneyland. Heck, if anything, he's a constant throw in for a possible Kingdom Hearts villain for what it's worth.

to:

* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff:
**
In France, it was the fifth greatest success of 1985.
1985, in a stark contrast to its dismal performance domestically.
** And [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff Japanese Love the The Horned King]]: Popular enough to appear King, for whatever reason, has a moderate level of popularity in Japan, appearing in several video games as the Final Boss FinalBoss and to be appearing the center of the Cinderella Castle Mystery Tour at Tokyo Disneyland. Heck, if anything, he's a constant throw in for a possible Kingdom Hearts villain ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' villain, for what it's worth.



** The Horned King gets far less terrifying if you compare him to [[WesternAnimation/WanderOverYonder another, albeit more comical, horned skeletal overlord.]]
** The magic sword sounds and glows much like a lightsaber, as well as being able to cut through most anything. The Horned King also has a habit of throttling his underlings when they have failed him. Then Disney acquires the rights to Star Wars.
* MostAnnoyingSound: The witch's deranged laughter quickly becomes this when she does it constantly in her scene.

to:

** The Horned King gets far less terrifying if you compare him to [[WesternAnimation/WanderOverYonder another, albeit more comical, horned skeletal overlord.]]
overlord]].
** The magic sword sounds and glows much like a lightsaber, as well as being able to cut through most anything. The Horned King also has a habit of throttling his underlings when they have failed him. Then Disney acquires the rights to Star Wars.
''Franchise/StarWars''...
* MostAnnoyingSound: MostAnnoyingSound:
**
The witch's deranged laughter quickly becomes this when she does it constantly in her scene.



* NeverLiveItDown: The troubled production and ultimate box office failure of the film shook the Walt Disney Company so much that even after the successful revitalization of its animation department in the years that followed, they largely ignored it for the next decade or so and have released virtually no merchandise tied to it; not even of Princess Eilonwy who remains absent from the Disney Princess lineup. It eventually received a full VHS release and later a DVD release thanks to its respectably cult following, but remains one of its least-publicized pictures. Disney has made some noise in 2016 about trying a more faithful adaptation of the Prydain novels in live action, but so far it seems stuck in DevelopmentHell, probably due to this reputation.

to:

* NeverLiveItDown: The troubled production and ultimate box office failure of the film shook the Walt Disney Company so much that even after the successful revitalization of its animation department in the years that followed, they largely ignored it for the next decade or so and have released virtually no merchandise tied to it; not even of Princess Eilonwy who remains absent from the Disney Princess lineup. It eventually received a full VHS release and later a DVD release thanks to its respectably cult following, but remains one of its least-publicized pictures. Disney has made some noise in 2016 about trying [[TruerToTheText a more faithful adaptation adaptation]] of the Prydain ''Prydain'' novels in live action, but so far it seems stuck in DevelopmentHell, probably due to this reputation.
14th Jul '17 5:20:50 PM Eagal
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* TrueNeutral: The three witches. They're more concerned with serving their own goals than getting involved in the war between good and evil happening just outside their swamp. It's possible that this is the very reason they were appointed to guard the Black Cauldron in the first place--they have no interest in using it, only having it, and it's apparently completely safe from the Horned King so long as it's theirs. The only nasty thing they do is transform people into frogs and [[ImAHumanitarian eat them]], but judging by their actions, it's possible they only do that to intruders.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.TheBlackCauldron