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* ExactWords: Stan Lee recalled n article he wrote where he clearly stated that he considered Steve Ditko to be co-creator of the character. This was apparently not good enough for Ditko who had an issue with the word "consider" (which according to the dictionary does mean to "ponder" or "contemplate").
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* ExactWords: Stan Lee recalled n an article he wrote where he clearly stated that he considered Steve Ditko to be co-creator of the character. This was apparently not good enough for Ditko who had an issue with the word "consider" (which according to the dictionary does mean to "ponder" or "contemplate").
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* ExactWords: Stan Lee recalled n article he wrote where he clearly stated that he considered Steve Ditko to be co-creator of the character. This was apparently not good enough for Ditko who had an issue with the word "consider" (which according to the dictionary does mean to "ponder" or "contemplate").
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Deleted line(s) 2 (click to see context) :
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore, a man of the left who disagreed with Ditko's politics, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist.
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it needs to be pointed out that Stan Lee (and presumably others, as I'd imagine they whole group would talk about the premise of Iron man) were not fans of what Iron man represented, and made him with the intention of challenging themselves to see if they could get younger audiences to like a character that they normally wouldn't. it was not a reflection of their actual political views
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* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore, a man of the left who disagreed with Ditko's politics, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist.
to:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]].crowd. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore, a man of the left who disagreed with Ditko's politics, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist.
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* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore, a man of the left who disagreed with Ditko's politics, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist. Nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely brought up his objectivism as some cross he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
to:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore, a man of the left who disagreed with Ditko's politics, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist. Nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely brought up his objectivism as some cross he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
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** ComicBook/DoctorStrange coming face to face with Eternity is seen as the most representative image for the craziness of Ditko's entire run on Strange.
** Spider-Man, exhausted from a fight with Doc Ock and trapped below tons of rubble in a room quickly filling with water, dramatically freeing himself in an unprecedented feat of strength and one of the most iconic [[SplashPanel splash pages]] in comic history, is considered the defining moment of Ditko's run on that book.
** Spider-Man, exhausted from a fight with Doc Ock and trapped below tons of rubble in a room quickly filling with water, dramatically freeing himself in an unprecedented feat of strength and one of the most iconic [[SplashPanel splash pages]] in comic history, is considered the defining moment of Ditko's run on that book.
to:
** ComicBook/DoctorStrange coming [[https://vocal.media/geeks/steve-ditko-s-vision-of-eternity-in-dr-strange face to face with Eternity Eternity]] is seen as the most representative image for the craziness of Ditko's entire run on Strange.
** Spider-Man, exhausted from a fight with Doc Ock and trapped below tons of rubble in a room quickly filling with water, [[https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/07/08/business/08Ditko-obit-2/merlin_140894862_0189d153-9592-44f7-add7-1adf2cdc65cc-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp dramatically freeinghimself himself]] in an unprecedented feat of strength and one of the most iconic [[SplashPanel splash pages]] in comic history, is considered the defining moment of Ditko's run on that book.
** Spider-Man, exhausted from a fight with Doc Ock and trapped below tons of rubble in a room quickly filling with water, [[https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/07/08/business/08Ditko-obit-2/merlin_140894862_0189d153-9592-44f7-add7-1adf2cdc65cc-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp dramatically freeing
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* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore, a man of the left who disagreed with Ditko's politics, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist. Nonetheless writers on [[FanDumb comics fansites]] largely brought up his objectivism as some cross he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
to:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore, a man of the left who disagreed with Ditko's politics, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist. Nonetheless writers on [[FanDumb comics fansites]] fansites largely brought up his objectivism as some cross he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
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Move trope
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* MistakenIdentity: Presumably. In an interview, fellow comics artist Will Eisner claimed that he had met Ditko's son. But due to the conspicuous lack of evidence of any marriages, offspring, or even romantic flings on Ditko's part, this is generally assumed to simply be conflating the nephew Steve Ditko.
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None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore, a man of the left who disagreed with Ditko's politics, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist. Nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely brought up his objectivism as some cross he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
to:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore, a man of the left who disagreed with Ditko's politics, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist. Nonetheless writers on [[FanDumb comics fansites fansites]] largely brought up his objectivism as some cross he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
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None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore who disagreed with Ditko's politics, and is a man of the left, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist, but nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely brought up his objectivism as some cross he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
to:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore Creator/AlanMoore, a man of the left who disagreed with Ditko's politics, and is a man of the left, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist, but nonetheless artist. Nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely brought up his objectivism as some cross he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
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None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* MistakenIdentity: Presumably. In an interview, fellow comics artist Will Eisner claimed that he had met Ditko's son. But due to the lack of evidence of any marriages, offspring, or even romantic flings on Ditko's part, this is generally assumed to simply be conflating the nephew Steve Ditko.
to:
* MistakenIdentity: Presumably. In an interview, fellow comics artist Will Eisner claimed that he had met Ditko's son. But due to the conspicuous lack of evidence of any marriages, offspring, or even romantic flings on Ditko's part, this is generally assumed to simply be conflating the nephew Steve Ditko.
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None
Added DiffLines:
* MistakenIdentity: Presumably. In an interview, fellow comics artist Will Eisner claimed that he had met Ditko's son. But due to the lack of evidence of any marriages, offspring, or even romantic flings on Ditko's part, this is generally assumed to simply be conflating the nephew Steve Ditko.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''Spider-Man'' while Stan Lee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Kirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore who disagreed with Ditko's politics, and is a man of the left, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist, but nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely brought up his objectivism as some cross he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
to:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''Spider-Man'' ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' while Stan Lee Creator/StanLee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Kirby, Creator/JackKirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore who disagreed with Ditko's politics, and is a man of the left, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist, but nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely brought up his objectivism as some cross he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
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----
Changed line(s) 4,5 (click to see context) from:
** Spider-man, exhausted from a fight with Doc Ock and trapped below tons of rubble in a room quickly filling with water, dramatically freeing himself in an unprecedented feat of strength and one of the most iconic [[SplashPanel splash pages]] in comic history, is considered the defining moment of Ditko's run on that book.
to:
** Spider-man, Spider-Man, exhausted from a fight with Doc Ock and trapped below tons of rubble in a room quickly filling with water, dramatically freeing himself in an unprecedented feat of strength and one of the most iconic [[SplashPanel splash pages]] in comic history, is considered the defining moment of Ditko's run on that book.
book.
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* SignatureScene: ComicBook/DoctorStrange coming face to face with Eternity is seen as the most representative image for the craziness of Ditko's entire run on Strange.
to:
* SignatureScene: SignatureScene:
** ComicBook/DoctorStrange coming face to face with Eternity is seen as the most representative image for the craziness of Ditko's entire run on Strange.
** Spider-man, exhausted from a fight with Doc Ock and trapped below tons of rubble in a room quickly filling with water, dramatically freeing himself in an unprecedented feat of strength and one of the most iconic [[SplashPanel splash pages]] in comic history, is considered the defining moment of Ditko's run on that book.
** ComicBook/DoctorStrange coming face to face with Eternity is seen as the most representative image for the craziness of Ditko's entire run on Strange.
** Spider-man, exhausted from a fight with Doc Ock and trapped below tons of rubble in a room quickly filling with water, dramatically freeing himself in an unprecedented feat of strength and one of the most iconic [[SplashPanel splash pages]] in comic history, is considered the defining moment of Ditko's run on that book.
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I am not sure if you can trope creator pages on YMMV but since so much is Spider-Man related and there's a page for his run there...I am moving it there...link is on main page.
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* FirstInstallmentWins: His run on Spider-Man is ''still'' considered the all-time high point of the series and was one of the few superhero stories listed in Comics Journal's list for greatest comics. While some argue that Spider-Man's DorkAge didn't begin with Ditko's departure and many great stories were written afterwards, they do feel that the reversal in the stories that followed (making Peter more good-looking, giving him a social circle, sweetening up Gwen Stacy's personality, introduction of ComicBookTime) were Spider-Man's original FranchiseOriginalSin.
* MyRealDaddy: The likes of Creator/AlanMoore and hardcore fans consider him Spider-Man's true creator. Since the Marvel Method, where Creator/StanLee came up with the rough outline and left the plotting and panel layout to the artists, leaves considerable room for ambiguity, no one is quite sure who really came up with that. According to Lee, it was Ditko who more or less was plotting out fully the later Spider-Man issues (as per a '60s interview) which includes Peter going to college, and the iconic Master Planner arc.
* SignatureScene:
** ComicBook/DoctorStrange coming face to face with Eternity is seen as the most representative image for the craziness of Ditko's entire run on Strange.
** For ''Franchise/SpiderMan'' there's several, but the one most people bring up, and which was finally recreated in ''Film/SpidermanHomecoming'' is the sequence from the Master Planner arc, "If this be my destiny" where Spider-Man lifts up the pile of machinery by HeroicWillpower.
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotPolitical: A debate has been brewing up to what extent Ditko's objectivism affected his conception of [[http://sequart.org/magazine/42384/the-lack-of-ditkos-objectivist-bias-in-amazing-spider-man/ Spider-Man]]. This led to, now discredited, rumors that Ditko refused making Norman Osborn the Green Goblin (which Ditko himself refuted by citing the content of the issues he had created before his departure where Norman was pre-established as a shady embezzling creep right from the start) because he didn't like the idea of a businessman as a bad guy (even Creator/AynRand had businessmen bad guys). About the only objectivist concept one can discern is the greater individualism of Peter's early years, the very core that made him unique (i.e. a Teenage Hero who was not a sidekick and who had no sidekicks or confidants: i.e. no Alfred, no Ma or Pa Kent, nobody who really knows him).
* MyRealDaddy: The likes of Creator/AlanMoore and hardcore fans consider him Spider-Man's true creator. Since the Marvel Method, where Creator/StanLee came up with the rough outline and left the plotting and panel layout to the artists, leaves considerable room for ambiguity, no one is quite sure who really came up with that. According to Lee, it was Ditko who more or less was plotting out fully the later Spider-Man issues (as per a '60s interview) which includes Peter going to college, and the iconic Master Planner arc.
* SignatureScene:
** ComicBook/DoctorStrange coming face to face with Eternity is seen as the most representative image for the craziness of Ditko's entire run on Strange.
** For ''Franchise/SpiderMan'' there's several, but the one most people bring up, and which was finally recreated in ''Film/SpidermanHomecoming'' is the sequence from the Master Planner arc, "If this be my destiny" where Spider-Man lifts up the pile of machinery by HeroicWillpower.
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotPolitical: A debate has been brewing up to what extent Ditko's objectivism affected his conception of [[http://sequart.org/magazine/42384/the-lack-of-ditkos-objectivist-bias-in-amazing-spider-man/ Spider-Man]]. This led to, now discredited, rumors that Ditko refused making Norman Osborn the Green Goblin (which Ditko himself refuted by citing the content of the issues he had created before his departure where Norman was pre-established as a shady embezzling creep right from the start) because he didn't like the idea of a businessman as a bad guy (even Creator/AynRand had businessmen bad guys). About the only objectivist concept one can discern is the greater individualism of Peter's early years, the very core that made him unique (i.e. a Teenage Hero who was not a sidekick and who had no sidekicks or confidants: i.e. no Alfred, no Ma or Pa Kent, nobody who really knows him).
to:
* FirstInstallmentWins: His run on Spider-Man is ''still'' considered the all-time high point of the series and was one of the few superhero stories listed in Comics Journal's list for greatest comics. While some argue that Spider-Man's DorkAge didn't begin with Ditko's departure and many great stories were written afterwards, they do feel that the reversal in the stories that followed (making Peter more good-looking, giving him a social circle, sweetening up Gwen Stacy's personality, introduction of ComicBookTime) were Spider-Man's original FranchiseOriginalSin.
* MyRealDaddy: The likes of Creator/AlanMoore and hardcore fans consider him Spider-Man's true creator. Since the Marvel Method, where Creator/StanLee came up with the rough outline and left the plotting and panel layout to the artists, leaves considerable room for ambiguity, no one is quite sure who really came up with that. According to Lee, it was Ditko who more or less was plotting out fully the later Spider-Man issues (as per a '60s interview) which includes Peter going to college, and the iconic Master Planner arc.
* SignatureScene:
**SignatureScene: ComicBook/DoctorStrange coming face to face with Eternity is seen as the most representative image for the craziness of Ditko's entire run on Strange.
** For ''Franchise/SpiderMan'' there's several, but the one most people bring up, and which was finally recreated in ''Film/SpidermanHomecoming'' is the sequence from the Master Planner arc, "If this be my destiny" where Spider-Man lifts up the pile of machinery by HeroicWillpower.
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotPolitical: A debate has been brewing up to what extent Ditko's objectivism affected his conception of [[http://sequart.org/magazine/42384/the-lack-of-ditkos-objectivist-bias-in-amazing-spider-man/ Spider-Man]]. This led to, now discredited, rumors that Ditko refused making Norman Osborn the Green Goblin (which Ditko himself refuted by citing the content of the issues he had created before his departure where Norman was pre-established as a shady embezzling creep right from the start) because he didn't like the idea of a businessman as a bad guy (even Creator/AynRand had businessmen bad guys). About the only objectivist concept one can discern is the greater individualism of Peter's early years, the very core that made him unique (i.e. a Teenage Hero who was not a sidekick and who had no sidekicks or confidants: i.e. no Alfred, no Ma or Pa Kent, nobody who really knows him).
* MyRealDaddy: The likes of Creator/AlanMoore and hardcore fans consider him Spider-Man's true creator. Since the Marvel Method, where Creator/StanLee came up with the rough outline and left the plotting and panel layout to the artists, leaves considerable room for ambiguity, no one is quite sure who really came up with that. According to Lee, it was Ditko who more or less was plotting out fully the later Spider-Man issues (as per a '60s interview) which includes Peter going to college, and the iconic Master Planner arc.
* SignatureScene:
**
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotPolitical: A debate has been brewing up to what extent Ditko's objectivism affected his conception of [[http://sequart.org/magazine/42384/the-lack-of-ditkos-objectivist-bias-in-amazing-spider-man/ Spider-Man]]. This led to, now discredited, rumors that Ditko refused making Norman Osborn the Green Goblin (which Ditko himself refuted by citing the content of the issues he had created before his departure where Norman was pre-established as a shady embezzling creep right from the start) because he didn't like the idea of a businessman as a bad guy (even Creator/AynRand had businessmen bad guys). About the only objectivist concept one can discern is the greater individualism of Peter's early years, the very core that made him unique (i.e. a Teenage Hero who was not a sidekick and who had no sidekicks or confidants: i.e. no Alfred, no Ma or Pa Kent, nobody who really knows him).
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None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''Spider-Man'' while Stan Lee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Kirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore who disagreed with Ditko's politics, and is a man of the left, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist, but nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely bring up his objectivism as some cross for him to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
to:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''Spider-Man'' while Stan Lee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Kirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore who disagreed with Ditko's politics, and is a man of the left, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist, but nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely bring brought up his objectivism as some cross for him he had to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with such political ideas).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Playing it both ways, on one hand defending Ditko for his opinion while portraying the Objectivist movement (which at the very least isn't illegal or hateful) as bad and implying the reason he was in the movement as popularity rather than his own values.
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* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] (at a time when it was mainstream and popular to be) has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''Spider-Man'' while Stan Lee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Kirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore who disagreed with Ditko's politics, and is a man of the left, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist, but nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely bring up his objectivism as some cross for him to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with dubious political ideas).
to:
* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] (at a time when it was mainstream and popular to be) has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''Spider-Man'' while Stan Lee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Kirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore who disagreed with Ditko's politics, and is a man of the left, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist, but nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely bring up his objectivism as some cross for him to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with dubious such political ideas).
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Removed What Could Have Been since its inaccurate and dated, and just plain speculation...
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* AcceptablePoliticalTargets: Ditko being an [[UsefulNotes/{{Objectivism}} Objectivist]] (at a time when it was mainstream and popular to be) has often made it easy for fans and others to mock him and his legacy, as well as conjecture that the real reason why he left was that he was trying to be WriterOnBoard for ''Spider-Man'' while Stan Lee was trying to angle to the college liberal crowd[[note]]Apparently fans have forgotten that it was Lee who largely conceived ''ComicBook/IronMan'' (alongside Kirby, Larry Leiber and Don Heck) which was intended to more or less get hippie audiences to root for an ArmsDealer whose first priority was ensuring his creations are entirely in his control (i.e. more Randian than anything Ditko wrote)[[/note]]. The likes of Creator/AlanMoore who disagreed with Ditko's politics, and is a man of the left, has nonetheless defended his reputation and talents as an artist, but nonetheless writers on comics fansites largely bring up his objectivism as some cross for him to bear (as if Ditko was the first or last major talent with dubious political ideas).
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* MyRealDaddy: The likes of Creator/AlanMoore and hardcore fans consider him Spider-Man's true creator. Since the Marvel Method, where Creator/StanLee came up with the rough outline and left the plotting and panel layout to the artists, leaves considerable room for ambiguity, no one is quite sure who really came up with that.
to:
* MyRealDaddy: The likes of Creator/AlanMoore and hardcore fans consider him Spider-Man's true creator. Since the Marvel Method, where Creator/StanLee came up with the rough outline and left the plotting and panel layout to the artists, leaves considerable room for ambiguity, no one is quite sure who really came up with that. According to Lee, it was Ditko who more or less was plotting out fully the later Spider-Man issues (as per a '60s interview) which includes Peter going to college, and the iconic Master Planner arc.
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* WhatCouldHaveBeen: Many comics fans, writers and scholars like to speculate what Spider-Man could have been had Ditko remained with the title and been allowed more creative control over the character.
** Some argue that it could have led to an ultraconservative Randian Peter Parker which was unlikely to survive in a decade where the comics readership consisted of a large number of hip, liberal youth (whom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby better connected with on a personal level). Likewise, everyone agrees with Stan Lee that Norman Osborn was a perfect reveal for the Green Goblin, assuming of course if that was indeed the reason which led to Ditko's departure.
*** When compared to the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how the Ditko plotted stories featured Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn as outright jerks, with Gwen especially being an UptownGirl who has a crush on Peter mostly because he's not immediately attracted to her. Peter himself was quite anti-social in many of the original stories though still a NiceGuy, but definitely aloof among his peers (for understandable reasons). Much of this changed in the Lee-Romita era where Peter had a regular supporting cast, Gwen became Purity Sue, Harry his best friend and even Flash became LighterAndSofter. Peter himself became more good-looking and muscular than his original Ditko design. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfxVO0fLHvA The likes of]] Alan Moore argue that this was far more drastic a change than the identity of the Green Goblin.
** Some argue that it could have led to an ultraconservative Randian Peter Parker which was unlikely to survive in a decade where the comics readership consisted of a large number of hip, liberal youth (whom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby better connected with on a personal level). Likewise, everyone agrees with Stan Lee that Norman Osborn was a perfect reveal for the Green Goblin, assuming of course if that was indeed the reason which led to Ditko's departure.
*** When compared to the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how the Ditko plotted stories featured Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn as outright jerks, with Gwen especially being an UptownGirl who has a crush on Peter mostly because he's not immediately attracted to her. Peter himself was quite anti-social in many of the original stories though still a NiceGuy, but definitely aloof among his peers (for understandable reasons). Much of this changed in the Lee-Romita era where Peter had a regular supporting cast, Gwen became Purity Sue, Harry his best friend and even Flash became LighterAndSofter. Peter himself became more good-looking and muscular than his original Ditko design. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfxVO0fLHvA The likes of]] Alan Moore argue that this was far more drastic a change than the identity of the Green Goblin.
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* WhatCouldHaveBeen: Many comics fans, writers and scholars like WhatDoYouMeanItsNotPolitical: A debate has been brewing up to speculate what Spider-Man could have been had extent Ditko's objectivism affected his conception of [[http://sequart.org/magazine/42384/the-lack-of-ditkos-objectivist-bias-in-amazing-spider-man/ Spider-Man]]. This led to, now discredited, rumors that Ditko remained with the title and been allowed more creative control over the character.
** Some argue that it could have led to an ultraconservative Randian Peter Parker which was unlikely to survive in a decade where the comics readership consisted of a large number of hip, liberal youth (whom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby better connected with on a personal level). Likewise, everyone agrees with Stan Lee thatrefused making Norman Osborn was a perfect reveal for the Green Goblin, assuming of course if that was indeed Goblin (which Ditko himself refuted by citing the reason which led to Ditko's departure.
*** When compared tocontent of the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how he had created before his departure where Norman was pre-established as a shady embezzling creep right from the Ditko plotted stories featured Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn as outright jerks, with Gwen especially being an UptownGirl who has a crush on Peter mostly start) because he's not immediately attracted to her. Peter himself was quite anti-social in many of he didn't like the original stories though still a NiceGuy, but definitely aloof among his peers (for understandable reasons). Much idea of this changed in a businessman as a bad guy (even Creator/AynRand had businessmen bad guys). About the Lee-Romita era where Peter had a regular supporting cast, Gwen became Purity Sue, Harry his best friend and even Flash became LighterAndSofter. Peter himself became more good-looking and muscular than his original Ditko design. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfxVO0fLHvA The likes of]] Alan Moore argue only objectivist concept one can discern is the greater individualism of Peter's early years, the very core that this made him unique (i.e. a Teenage Hero who was far more drastic not a change than the identity of the Green Goblin.sidekick and who had no sidekicks or confidants: i.e. no Alfred, no Ma or Pa Kent, nobody who really knows him).
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** Some argue that it could have led to an ultraconservative Randian Peter Parker which was unlikely to survive in a decade where the comics readership consisted of a large number of hip, liberal youth (whom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby better connected with on a personal level). Likewise, everyone agrees with Stan Lee that
*** When compared to
----
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* SignatureScene:
** ComicBook/DoctorStrange coming face to face with Eternity is seen as the most representative image for the craziness of Ditko's entire run on Strange.
** For ''Franchise/SpiderMan'' there's several, but the one most people bring up, and which was finally recreated in ''Film/SpidermanHomecoming'' is the sequence from the Master Planner arc, "If this be my destiny" where Spider-Man lifts up the pile of machinery by HeroicWillpower.
** ComicBook/DoctorStrange coming face to face with Eternity is seen as the most representative image for the craziness of Ditko's entire run on Strange.
** For ''Franchise/SpiderMan'' there's several, but the one most people bring up, and which was finally recreated in ''Film/SpidermanHomecoming'' is the sequence from the Master Planner arc, "If this be my destiny" where Spider-Man lifts up the pile of machinery by HeroicWillpower.
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Moving to Trivia.
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* ReclusiveArtist: Only in the sense that he doesn't do comic book conventions or give interviews. Strangely enough, he's in the phonebook, at least the location of his studio is. And he's been known to entertain guests who just happen to go to his studio for whatever reason, and was recently in the news for [[http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/eight-year-old-comic-fan-writes-steve-ditko-a-letter-and-heres-how-ditko-responded/ writing a very nice reply to a young Spider-Man fan's letter]]. Since the average comic book reader under fifty-five has probably never even heard of him, he's apparently not too concerned about fans camping out waiting for him.
** Well, considerably younger than 55 (as of 2015). Ditko's Spider-Man run was reprinted (as "Marvel Tales") as late as the 1980's. So his run of Spider-Man actually gained new fans almost two decades after he left the book.
** Well, considerably younger than 55 (as of 2015). Ditko's Spider-Man run was reprinted (as "Marvel Tales") as late as the 1980's. So his run of Spider-Man actually gained new fans almost two decades after he left the book.
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None
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*** When compared to the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how the Ditko plotted stories featured Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn as outright jerks, with Gwen especially being an UptownGirl who has a crush on Peter mostly because he's not immediately attracted to her. Peter himself was quite anti-social in many of the original stories though still a NiceGuy, but definitely aloof among his peers (for understandable reasons). Much of this changed in the Lee-Romita era where Peter had a regular supporting cast, Gwen became PuritySue, Harry his best friend and even Flash became LighterAndSofter. Peter himself became more good-looking and muscular than his original Ditko design. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfxVO0fLHvA The likes of]] Alan Moore argue that this was far more drastic a change than the identity of the Green Goblin.
to:
*** When compared to the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how the Ditko plotted stories featured Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn as outright jerks, with Gwen especially being an UptownGirl who has a crush on Peter mostly because he's not immediately attracted to her. Peter himself was quite anti-social in many of the original stories though still a NiceGuy, but definitely aloof among his peers (for understandable reasons). Much of this changed in the Lee-Romita era where Peter had a regular supporting cast, Gwen became PuritySue, Purity Sue, Harry his best friend and even Flash became LighterAndSofter. Peter himself became more good-looking and muscular than his original Ditko design. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfxVO0fLHvA The likes of]] Alan Moore argue that this was far more drastic a change than the identity of the Green Goblin.
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None
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* FirstInstallmentWins: His run on Spider-man is ''still'' considered the all-time high point of the series and was one of the few superhero stories listed in Comics Journal's list for greatest comics. While some argue that Spider-Man's DorkAge didn't begin with Ditko's departure and many great stories were written afterwards, they do feel that the reversal in the stories that followed (making Peter more good-looking, giving him a social circle, sweetening up Gwen Stacy's personality, introduction of ComicBookTime) were Spider-Man's original FranchiseOriginalSin.
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* FirstInstallmentWins: His run on Spider-man Spider-Man is ''still'' considered the all-time high point of the series and was one of the few superhero stories listed in Comics Journal's list for greatest comics. While some argue that Spider-Man's DorkAge didn't begin with Ditko's departure and many great stories were written afterwards, they do feel that the reversal in the stories that followed (making Peter more good-looking, giving him a social circle, sweetening up Gwen Stacy's personality, introduction of ComicBookTime) were Spider-Man's original FranchiseOriginalSin.
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None
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to:
* FirstInstallmentWins: His run on Spider-man is ''still'' considered the all-time high point of the series and was one of the few superhero stories listed in Comics Journal's list for greatest comics. While some argue that Spider-Man's DorkAge didn't begin with Ditko's departure and many great stories were written afterwards, they do feel that the reversal in the stories that followed (making Peter more good-looking, giving him a social circle, sweetening up Gwen Stacy's personality, introduction of ComicBookTime) were Spider-Man's original FranchiseOriginalSin.
* MyRealDaddy: The likes of Creator/AlanMoore and hardcore fans consider him Spider-Man's true creator. Since the Marvel Method, where Creator/StanLee came up with the rough outline and left the plotting and panel layout to the artists, leaves considerable room for ambiguity, no one is quite sure who really came up with that.
* MyRealDaddy: The likes of Creator/AlanMoore and hardcore fans consider him Spider-Man's true creator. Since the Marvel Method, where Creator/StanLee came up with the rough outline and left the plotting and panel layout to the artists, leaves considerable room for ambiguity, no one is quite sure who really came up with that.
Deleted line(s) 4 (click to see context) :
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* ReclusiveArtist: Only in the sense that he doesn't do comic book conventions or give interviews. Strangely enough, he's in the phonebook, at least the location of his studio is. And he's been known to entertain guests who just happen to go to his studio for whatever reason, and was recently in the news for [[http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/eight-year-old-comic-fan-writes-steve-ditko-a-letter-and-heres-how-ditko-responded/ writing a very nice reply to a young Spider-Man fan's letter]]. Since the average comic book reader under fifty-five has probably never even heard of him, he's apparently not too concerned about fans camping out waiting for him.
** Well, considerably younger than 55 (as of 2015). Ditko's Spider-Man run was reprinted (as "Marvel Tales") as late as the 1980's. So his run of Spider-Man actually gained new fans almost two decades after he left the book.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
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* What Could Have Been: Many comics fans, writers and scholars like to speculate what Spider-Man could have been had Ditko remained with the title and been allowed more creative control over the character.
** Some argue that it could have led to an ultraconservative Randian Peter Parker which was unlikely to survive in a decade where the comics readership consisted of a large number of hip, liberal youth (whom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby better connected with on a persona level). Likewise, everyone agrees with Stan Lee that Norman Osborn was a perfect reveal for the Green Goblin, assuming of course if that was indeed the reason which led to Ditko's departure.
*** When compared to the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how the Ditko plotted stories featued Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn as outright jerks, with Gwen especially being an Uptown Girl who has a crush on Peter mostly because he's not immediately attracted to her. Peter himself was quite anti-social in many of the original stories though still a Nice Guy, but definitely aloof among his peers (for understandable reasons). Much of this changed in the Lee-Romita era where Peter had a regular supporting cast, Gwen became Purity Sue, Harry his best friend and even Flash became Lighter and Softer. Peter himself became more good-looking and muscular than his original Ditko design. The likes of Alan Moore argue that this was far more drastic a change than the identity of the Green Goblin.
** Some argue that it could have led to an ultraconservative Randian Peter Parker which was unlikely to survive in a decade where the comics readership consisted of a large number of hip, liberal youth (whom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby better connected with on a persona level). Likewise, everyone agrees with Stan Lee that Norman Osborn was a perfect reveal for the Green Goblin, assuming of course if that was indeed the reason which led to Ditko's departure.
*** When compared to the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how the Ditko plotted stories featued Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn as outright jerks, with Gwen especially being an Uptown Girl who has a crush on Peter mostly because he's not immediately attracted to her. Peter himself was quite anti-social in many of the original stories though still a Nice Guy, but definitely aloof among his peers (for understandable reasons). Much of this changed in the Lee-Romita era where Peter had a regular supporting cast, Gwen became Purity Sue, Harry his best friend and even Flash became Lighter and Softer. Peter himself became more good-looking and muscular than his original Ditko design. The likes of Alan Moore argue that this was far more drastic a change than the identity of the Green Goblin.
to:
* What Could Have Been: WhatCouldHaveBeen: Many comics fans, writers and scholars like to speculate what Spider-Man could have been had Ditko remained with the title and been allowed more creative control over the character.
** Some argue that it could have led to an ultraconservative Randian Peter Parker which was unlikely to survive in a decade where the comics readership consisted of a large number of hip, liberal youth (whom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby better connected with on apersona personal level). Likewise, everyone agrees with Stan Lee that Norman Osborn was a perfect reveal for the Green Goblin, assuming of course if that was indeed the reason which led to Ditko's departure.
*** When compared to the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how the Ditko plotted storiesfeatued featured Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn as outright jerks, with Gwen especially being an Uptown Girl UptownGirl who has a crush on Peter mostly because he's not immediately attracted to her. Peter himself was quite anti-social in many of the original stories though still a Nice Guy, NiceGuy, but definitely aloof among his peers (for understandable reasons). Much of this changed in the Lee-Romita era where Peter had a regular supporting cast, Gwen became Purity Sue, PuritySue, Harry his best friend and even Flash became Lighter and Softer.LighterAndSofter. Peter himself became more good-looking and muscular than his original Ditko design. [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfxVO0fLHvA The likes of of]] Alan Moore argue that this was far more drastic a change than the identity of the Green Goblin.
** Some argue that it could have led to an ultraconservative Randian Peter Parker which was unlikely to survive in a decade where the comics readership consisted of a large number of hip, liberal youth (whom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby better connected with on a
*** When compared to the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how the Ditko plotted stories
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None
Added DiffLines:
* What Could Have Been: Many comics fans, writers and scholars like to speculate what Spider-Man could have been had Ditko remained with the title and been allowed more creative control over the character.
**Some argue that it could have led to an ultraconservative Randian Peter Parker which was unlikely to survive in a decade where the comics readership consisted of a large number of hip, liberal youth (whom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby better connected with on a persona level). Likewise, everyone agrees with Stan Lee that Norman Osborn was a perfect reveal for the Green Goblin, assuming of course if that was indeed the reason which led to Ditko's departure.
***When compared to the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how the Ditko plotted stories featued Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn as outright jerks, with Gwen especially being an Uptown Girl who has a crush on Peter mostly because he's not immediately attracted to her. Peter himself was quite anti-social in many of the original stories though still a Nice Guy, but definitely aloof among his peers (for understandable reasons). Much of this changed in the Lee-Romita era where Peter had a regular supporting cast, Gwen became Purity Sue, Harry his best friend and even Flash became Lighter and Softer. Peter himself became more good-looking and muscular than his original Ditko design. The likes of Alan Moore argue that this was far more drastic a change than the identity of the Green Goblin.
**Some argue that it could have led to an ultraconservative Randian Peter Parker which was unlikely to survive in a decade where the comics readership consisted of a large number of hip, liberal youth (whom Stan Lee and Jack Kirby better connected with on a persona level). Likewise, everyone agrees with Stan Lee that Norman Osborn was a perfect reveal for the Green Goblin, assuming of course if that was indeed the reason which led to Ditko's departure.
***When compared to the Lee-Romita issues which followed, it's striking how the Ditko plotted stories featued Gwen Stacy and Harry Osborn as outright jerks, with Gwen especially being an Uptown Girl who has a crush on Peter mostly because he's not immediately attracted to her. Peter himself was quite anti-social in many of the original stories though still a Nice Guy, but definitely aloof among his peers (for understandable reasons). Much of this changed in the Lee-Romita era where Peter had a regular supporting cast, Gwen became Purity Sue, Harry his best friend and even Flash became Lighter and Softer. Peter himself became more good-looking and muscular than his original Ditko design. The likes of Alan Moore argue that this was far more drastic a change than the identity of the Green Goblin.
