History YMMV / SpiderMan

12th Jul '17 8:02:48 PM MagBas
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** However, recent adaptations, primarily ''WesternAnimation/TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan'' which greatly [[AdaptationPersonalityChange altered her characterization]], made her popular among fans who weren't familiar with Gwen [[AppealToObscurity outside of reading up on her online or checking out back issues]][[note]]The reason being that most of the cartoons never had Gwen, and in the wider PopCulturalOsmosis, MJ was the more famous character, with only readers of the comics, a small number in the market of global Spider-Man fans, knowing who she was[[/note]]. This was also coupled with the unpopularity of stories like ''Sins Past'' which made severe {{Retcon}} to her characterization that to some came across as CharacterDerailment, the backlash to the on-screen representation of the Peter-MJ representation in the ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and the success of ''ComicBook/SpiderGwen''. Likewise, a small HypeBacklash has also started against ''The Night Gwen Stacy Died'' with many slamming it for making the StuffedIntoTheFridge trope as well as the fact that behind-the-scenes it was driven by the same motives as the unpopular Spider-Man DorkAge runs (i.e. keep Peter from maturing and growing up), and there are calls to resurrect her for good, with fans citing Bucky Barnes and Jason Todd's revival as precedents for doing the same.

to:

** However, recent adaptations, primarily ''WesternAnimation/TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan'' which greatly [[AdaptationPersonalityChange altered her characterization]], made her popular among fans who weren't familiar with Gwen [[AppealToObscurity outside of reading up on her online or checking out back issues]][[note]]The reason being that most of the cartoons never had Gwen, and in the wider PopCulturalOsmosis, MJ was the more famous character, with only readers of the comics, a small number in the market of global Spider-Man fans, knowing who she was[[/note]]. This was also coupled with the unpopularity of stories like ''Sins Past'' which made severe {{Retcon}} to her characterization that to some came across as CharacterDerailment, the backlash to the on-screen representation of the Peter-MJ representation in the ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and the success of ''ComicBook/SpiderGwen''. Likewise, a small HypeBacklash has also started against ''The Night Gwen Stacy Died'' with many slamming it for making the StuffedIntoTheFridge trope as well as the fact that behind-the-scenes it was driven by the same motives as the unpopular Spider-Man DorkAge runs (i.e. keep Peter from maturing and growing up), and there are calls to resurrect her for good, with fans citing Bucky Barnes and Jason Todd's revival as precedents for doing the same.
12th Jul '17 4:24:46 PM JulianLapostat
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** Things changed in TheOughties, with the ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' bringing in new readers, and ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan ending and reversing the old run of progressively darker and bleaker stories by making Peter a little happier. In addition to this, his run put in a few good issues (including the acclaimed issue with Peter revealing his secret to Aunt May [[spoiler: [[http://www.cinemablend.com/news/1678079/spider-mans-shocking-final-scene-why-marvel-did-what-they-did which inspired the finale of ''Film/SpiderManHomecoming'']]) as well as repairing Peter's marriage to MJ, in addition to introducing the Spider-Totem MythArc. In addition, Peter started playing a bigger role in the Marvel Continuity (when before he had more or less been locked in his own self-contained place), while Creator/BrianMichaelBendis' ''ComicBook/UltimateSpiderMan'' became genuinely popular, succeeding where John Byrne's SettingUpdate failed. For a while it seemed that Spider-Man [[HopeSpot was out of his Dork Age]].

to:

** Things changed in TheOughties, with the ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' bringing in new readers, and ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan ending and reversing the old run of progressively darker and bleaker stories by making Peter a little happier. In addition to this, his run put in a few good issues (including the acclaimed issue with Peter revealing his secret to Aunt May [[spoiler: [[http://www.cinemablend.com/news/1678079/spider-mans-shocking-final-scene-why-marvel-did-what-they-did which inspired inspired]] the finale of ''Film/SpiderManHomecoming'']]) as well as repairing Peter's marriage to MJ, in addition to introducing the Spider-Totem MythArc. In addition, Peter started playing a bigger role in the Marvel Continuity (when before he had more or less been locked in his own self-contained place), while Creator/BrianMichaelBendis' ''ComicBook/UltimateSpiderMan'' became genuinely popular, succeeding where John Byrne's SettingUpdate failed. For a while it seemed that Spider-Man [[HopeSpot was out of his Dork Age]].
12th Jul '17 4:23:06 PM JulianLapostat
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* DorkAge: Spider-Man is arguably the character most hit with this trope in comics history, with only the ComicBook/XMen possibly coming close. ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga'', the events in his life during ''ComicBook/CivilWar'', ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'', ''ComicBook/OneMomentInTime'' and ''Brand New Day'' are basically the worst periods in Spider-Man history. Some feel that ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan'' is also this, but that's more BrokenBase.

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* DorkAge: Spider-Man is arguably the character most hit with this trope in comics history, with only the ComicBook/XMen possibly coming close. ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga'',
** ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga'' is seen as
the events story that marked the start of the rot in Spider-Man's 616 Continuity, with its endless retcons, changes, and increasingly convoluted storyline annoying most of the fanbase and setting a pattern that would recur and continue to recur decades later. The period ''after'' the Clone Saga is also not remembered well, with stories like ''ComicBook/MaximumCarnage'', the WolverinePublicity of ComicBook/{{Venom}}, the attempted fridging of MJ, and then her revival and "separation" which also coincided with Peter becoming a ''real'' sad-sack after merely being a SadClown, a highly unpopular ContinuityReboot by Creator/JohnByrne (''Chapter One''). There were bright spots even in this time, such as ''ComicBook/KravensLastHunt'' and the AlternateContinuity ''ComicBook/SpiderGirl'' but TheNineties are generally seen as the nadir for Spider-Man, much in the same way [[TheFisherKing it was for Marvel Comics]] as a whole, since [[http://www.eonline.com/news/33907/marvel-files-for-bankruptcy they filed for bankruptcy]] and sold the rights to many of their properties to other companies.
** Things changed in TheOughties, with the ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' bringing in new readers, and ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan ending and reversing the old run of progressively darker and bleaker stories by making Peter a little happier. In addition to this, his run put in a few good issues (including the acclaimed issue with Peter revealing his secret to Aunt May [[spoiler: [[http://www.cinemablend.com/news/1678079/spider-mans-shocking-final-scene-why-marvel-did-what-they-did which inspired the finale of ''Film/SpiderManHomecoming'']]) as well as repairing Peter's marriage to MJ, in addition to introducing the Spider-Totem MythArc. In addition, Peter started playing a bigger role in the Marvel Continuity (when before he had more or less been locked
in his life during ''ComicBook/CivilWar'', ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'', ''ComicBook/OneMomentInTime'' and ''Brand New Day'' are basically the worst periods in own self-contained place), while Creator/BrianMichaelBendis' ''ComicBook/UltimateSpiderMan'' became genuinely popular, succeeding where John Byrne's SettingUpdate failed. For a while it seemed that Spider-Man history. Some feel [[HopeSpot was out of his Dork Age]].
** Of course, it didn't last. The ''Sins Past'' storyline ruined much of the goodwill of JMS' run, coupled with poor Pete being caught up in the general Marvel dorkiness of ''ComicBook/CivilWar''. Then there was ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay'' which polarized the fanbase even more than the Clone Saga did (to the point
that the Clone Saga itself [[WeWantOurJerkBack is no longer seen as the albatross around Spidey's neck]]). Creator/SamRaimi's movie trilogy likewise fell into {{Sequelitis}} and while ''Ultimate Spider-Man'' still remained popular, its association with the increasingly reviled ComicBook/UltimateMarvel line tarred it with guilt-by-association.
** Much like JMS, ComicBook/DanSlottSpiderman started out with promise, with ''ComicBook/SpiderIsland'' being well-liked but things changed with
''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan'' is which was polarizing, likable for some, unlikable for others, which also this, but that's more BrokenBase.saw other changes made to the character's social circle and background (such as becoming a rich inventor-businessman) that continues to be unpopular among some readers, while also reviving the KudzuPlot of the Clone Saga. About the only generally well liked parts of Spider-Man in this era, is the AlternateContinuity ComicBook/SpiderGwen and ComicBook/MilesMorales, the most prominent survivor from the end of the Ultimate Marvel run.
12th Jul '17 3:52:08 PM JulianLapostat
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** Many people argue that Spider-Man's original sin was graduating from high school to college. This happened in the original Steve Ditko-Stan Lee run itself, [[GrandfatherClause and as such it remains a fixture of the Amazing titles]] and several of the best stories follow Peter's college graduation, but supporters argue that Spider-Man's original concept was that of a teenage and KidHero and that the minute he grew up and graduated to college, it meant that Spider-Man would have to grow up and eventually be responsible rather than still grapple with Uncle Ben's Aesop (which the likes of Joe Quesada mentions is a mostly adolescent problem). The success of the ComicBook/UltimateSpiderMan comics (where Peter is a teenager and high-school kid and is succeeded by another teenager and high-school kid) is cited as a case in point of this argument.

to:

** Many people argue that Spider-Man's original sin was graduating from high school to college. This happened in the original Steve Ditko-Stan Lee run itself, [[GrandfatherClause and as such it remains a fixture of the Amazing titles]] and several of the best stories follow Peter's college graduation, but supporters many argue that Spider-Man's original concept was that of a teenage and KidHero and that the minute he grew up and graduated to college, it meant that Spider-Man would have to grow up and eventually be responsible rather than still grapple with Uncle Ben's Aesop (which the likes of Joe Quesada mentions is a mostly adolescent problem). The success of the ComicBook/UltimateSpiderMan comics (where Peter is a teenager and high-school kid and is succeeded by another teenager and high-school kid) is cited as a case in point of this argument.



** More importantly, the death of Gwen Stacy started a trend among Spider-Man writers to kill off long-time supporting cast members largely for shock value without any idea of how to take the story from there. When Conway killed Gwen, it was done with the clear idea that it, coupled with Norman's death, would change the relationships between Peter, Gwen and Harry, and mark as an EndOfAnAge for Peter's college era. But later writers, killed long-term supporting characters often without any such considerations, resulting in long-term fixtures like Ned Leeds tossed aside on the scrap, followed by Aunt May, Mary-Jane and Harry Osborn. These constant deaths of likable interesting supporting characters tended to make Peter's supporting cast smaller and smaller, and made his stories too depressing to read which moreover didn't entirely carry into Spider-Man's CharacterDevelopment (like say having him regress to the alone and bitter teenage version he was) and eventually writers reversed many of these deaths (Aunt May, MJ, and later Harry Osborn) which had the added effect of delegitimizing the mainstream Spider-Man's continuity, even before OMD.



* WinBackTheCrowd: Gwen Stacy as a character. While originally well-liked, she quickly became replaced by Mary Jane as the preferred romantic choice for Peter due to Mary Jane's FunPersonified attitude being more entertaining than Gwen's generally typical love interest personality. After her death, she became somewhat similar to [[Franchise/{{Batman}} Jason Todd]] in that many fans felt she was more important to the books as a dead character to provide angst and motivation rather than she did as a love interest. However, recent adaptations, primarily ''WesternAnimation/TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan'' have caused old fans who weren't too big on Peter/MJ and new fans who're introduced to their re-imagined versions of the character to cling to her. The latter especially, due to [[AdaptationalBadass her science skills being more pronounced to the point she's actually helpful to Peter]], [[Creator/EmmaStone a really talented actress]], and real chemistry between her and Peter as Emma Stone and Peter's actor Creator/AndrewGarfield are dating in real life, and met on the set of the first ''Amazing'' film. The results are a new lease of popularity, to the point that many fans now wish for her to be brought back to life (it doesn't help that recent adaptations and storylines have really damaged Mary Jane's character due to their poor handling of her, although her popularity is growing again as a supporting character to ''Iron Man'', ironically enough.)

to:

* WinBackTheCrowd: Gwen Stacy in recent years, largely thanks to her adaptations and [[AlternateUniverseReedRichardsIsAwesome alternate versions]].
** Her original character was seen
as a character. While originally well-liked, she quickly became replaced by Mary Jane as bland LoveInterest who was overshadowed in the preferred romantic choice for Peter due to fandom by Mary Jane's FunPersonified attitude being to the point that writers attempted to make Gwen popular by making her more entertaining than Gwen's generally typical love interest personality. After like MJ, including giving her death, a similar hairstyle and some mannerisms, which had the effect of making her personality feel more [[NiceJobBreakingItHero interchangeable]] and as per Creator/GerryConway, she became somewhat similar to [[Franchise/{{Batman}} Jason Todd]] in that many fans felt she was more important to the books interesting as a dead character to provide angst PosthumousCharacter and motivation rather than she did as TheLostLenore, and likewise her death elevated Mary-Jane into a love interest. more compelling supporting character.
**
However, recent adaptations, primarily ''WesternAnimation/TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan'' have caused old which greatly [[AdaptationPersonalityChange altered her characterization]], made her popular among fans who weren't too big familiar with Gwen [[AppealToObscurity outside of reading up on Peter/MJ and new fans who're introduced to their re-imagined versions her online or checking out back issues]][[note]]The reason being that most of the character to cling to her. The latter especially, due to [[AdaptationalBadass her science skills being cartoons never had Gwen, and in the wider PopCulturalOsmosis, MJ was the more pronounced famous character, with only readers of the comics, a small number in the market of global Spider-Man fans, knowing who she was[[/note]]. This was also coupled with the unpopularity of stories like ''Sins Past'' which made severe {{Retcon}} to her characterization that to some came across as CharacterDerailment, the backlash to the point she's actually helpful to Peter]], [[Creator/EmmaStone a really talented actress]], and real chemistry between her and Peter as Emma Stone and Peter's actor Creator/AndrewGarfield are dating in real life, and met on the set on-screen representation of the first ''Amazing'' film. The results are a new lease of popularity, to Peter-MJ representation in the point ''Film/SpiderManTrilogy'' and the success of ''ComicBook/SpiderGwen''. Likewise, a small HypeBacklash has also started against ''The Night Gwen Stacy Died'' with many slamming it for making the StuffedIntoTheFridge trope as well as the fact that many fans now wish for her to be brought back to life (it doesn't help that recent adaptations behind-the-scenes it was driven by the same motives as the unpopular Spider-Man DorkAge runs (i.e. keep Peter from maturing and storylines have really damaged Mary Jane's character due to their poor handling of her, although her popularity is growing again up), and there are calls to resurrect her for good, with fans citing Bucky Barnes and Jason Todd's revival as a supporting character to ''Iron Man'', ironically enough.)precedents for doing the same.
12th Jul '17 9:06:22 AM Isaac_Heller
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* WinBackTheCrowd: Gwen Stacy as a character. While originally well-liked, she quickly became replaced by Mary Jane as the preferred romantic choice for Peter due to Mary Jane's FunPersonified attitude being more entertaining than Gwen's generally typical love interest personality. After her death, she became somewhat similar to [[Franchise/{{Batman}} Jason Todd]] in that many fans felt she was more important to the books as a dead character to provide angst and motivation rather than she did as a love interest. However, recent adaptations, primarily ''WesternAnimation/TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan'' have caused old fans who weren't too big on Peter/MJ and new fans who're introduced to their re-imagined versions of the character to cling to her. The latter especially, due to [[AdaptationalBadass her science skills being more pronounced to the point she's actually helpful to Peter]], [[Creator/EmmaStone a really talented actress]], and real chemistry between her and Peter as Emma Stone and Peter's actor Creator/AndrewGarfield are dating in real life, and met on the set of the first ''Amazing'' film. The results are a new lease of popularity, to the point that many fans now wish for her to be brought back to life (it doesn't help that recent adaptations and storylines have really damaged Mary Jane's character due to their poor handling of her).

to:

* WinBackTheCrowd: Gwen Stacy as a character. While originally well-liked, she quickly became replaced by Mary Jane as the preferred romantic choice for Peter due to Mary Jane's FunPersonified attitude being more entertaining than Gwen's generally typical love interest personality. After her death, she became somewhat similar to [[Franchise/{{Batman}} Jason Todd]] in that many fans felt she was more important to the books as a dead character to provide angst and motivation rather than she did as a love interest. However, recent adaptations, primarily ''WesternAnimation/TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' and ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan'' have caused old fans who weren't too big on Peter/MJ and new fans who're introduced to their re-imagined versions of the character to cling to her. The latter especially, due to [[AdaptationalBadass her science skills being more pronounced to the point she's actually helpful to Peter]], [[Creator/EmmaStone a really talented actress]], and real chemistry between her and Peter as Emma Stone and Peter's actor Creator/AndrewGarfield are dating in real life, and met on the set of the first ''Amazing'' film. The results are a new lease of popularity, to the point that many fans now wish for her to be brought back to life (it doesn't help that recent adaptations and storylines have really damaged Mary Jane's character due to their poor handling of her).her, although her popularity is growing again as a supporting character to ''Iron Man'', ironically enough.)
22nd Jun '17 2:29:51 PM Green_lantern40
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** #304 of ''Amazing Spider-Man'' features a brief scene where Peter and Mary Jane visit Disneyland, years before Disney would go on to purchase Marvel.

to:

** #304 of ''Amazing Spider-Man'' features a brief scene where Peter and Mary Jane visit Disneyland, years decades before Disney would go on to purchase Marvel.



** Chameleon's getting beaten up by a baseball bat wielding Mary Jane generally weakens the threat of the character.

to:

** Chameleon's getting beaten up by a baseball bat wielding bat-wielding Mary Jane generally weakens the threat of the character.character. (Then again, it's not like the Chameleon was ever a villain most people would've taken ''that'' seriously anyway.)
20th Jun '17 6:41:22 AM SilverSupernova
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** Roderick Kingsley, the first Hobgoblin, has managed to trick Spider-Man and ''the Kingpin'' into believing the Hobgoblin was deceased ''Daily Bugle'' reporter Ned Leeds for a good ten years real time before being caught. He then blackmailed the Green Goblin into breaking him out of prison, and lived in luxury in the Caribbean. Now he's taken the late Justin Hammer's place as the world's premiere supervillain provider. Not bad for a guy who was originally ''a fashion designer.''

to:

** Roderick Kingsley, the first Hobgoblin, has managed to trick Spider-Man and ''the Kingpin'' into believing the Hobgoblin was deceased ''Daily Bugle'' reporter Ned Leeds for a good ten years real time before being caught. He then blackmailed the Green Goblin into breaking him out of prison, and lived in luxury in the Caribbean. Now he's taken the late Justin Hammer's place as the world's premiere supervillain provider.provider and competes with Taskmaster for training and gearing up legacy villains. Not bad for a guy who was originally ''a fashion designer.''
20th Jun '17 6:37:20 AM SilverSupernova
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** New "hero" Alpha due to basically being the antithesis to everything Spider-Man stands for (has zero responsibility, wastes his gifts, has an ego the size of a mountain, etc.). Dan Slott has stated [[IntendedAudienceReaction this was intentional]].

to:

** New "hero" Alpha due to basically being the antithesis to everything Spider-Man stands for (has zero responsibility, wastes his gifts, has an ego the size of a mountain, etc.). Dan Slott has stated [[IntendedAudienceReaction this was intentional]].intentional]] for the sake of giving him a character arc to make him more likable in his own mini series. Unfortunately most of this development went unnoticed by the fans since readers weren't exactly willing to pick up a series focusing on a character they were intentionally made to despise.
18th Jun '17 3:52:50 PM DoctorBane
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* ThatOneLevel: The mission "Missile Attack" from the 2000 video game has you climbing an abandoned building that's been partially boarded up while the police helicopter that's chasing you fires missiles at you. They home in on the parts of the building that are boarded, and if you happen to be on those parts when that happens, you're pretty much screwed. Part way through the level, the chopper starts trying to shoot you more precisely through a sniper-scope, but since you can see the targeting reticule,it's easy to dodge the bullets. Then you have to dodge more missiles. And if you lose there? It's back to the checkpoint, which was before you started the sniper part. There is a pattern to the missile launches, and you can see the missile's targeting reticules so you know what's about to be hit, but it's still frustratingly hard.

to:

* ThatOneLevel: The mission "Missile Attack" from the 2000 video game has you climbing an abandoned building that's been partially boarded up while the police helicopter that's chasing you fires missiles at you. They home in on the parts of the building that are boarded, and if you happen to be on those parts when that happens, you're pretty much screwed. Part way through the level, the chopper starts trying to shoot you more precisely through a sniper-scope, but since you can see the targeting reticule,it's reticule, it's easy to dodge the bullets. Then you have to dodge more missiles. And if you lose there? It's back to the checkpoint, which was before you started the sniper part. There is a pattern to the missile launches, and you can see the missile's targeting reticules so you know what's about to be hit, but it's still frustratingly hard.
18th Jun '17 3:47:07 PM DoctorBane
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Added DiffLines:

*ThatOneLevel: The mission "Missile Attack" from the 2000 video game has you climbing an abandoned building that's been partially boarded up while the police helicopter that's chasing you fires missiles at you. They home in on the parts of the building that are boarded, and if you happen to be on those parts when that happens, you're pretty much screwed. Part way through the level, the chopper starts trying to shoot you more precisely through a sniper-scope, but since you can see the targeting reticule,it's easy to dodge the bullets. Then you have to dodge more missiles. And if you lose there? It's back to the checkpoint, which was before you started the sniper part. There is a pattern to the missile launches, and you can see the missile's targeting reticules so you know what's about to be hit, but it's still frustratingly hard.
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