History YMMV / SpiderMan

23rd Jan '16 3:58:20 PM Manny20444
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** JerkassWoobie: In the comics and most incarnations, Harry Osborn serves the role as this.
10th Jan '16 10:21:56 PM ImSpideyTropes
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** Speaking of Daran Norris, try to imagine anyone but him, Creator/BenDiskin or Creator/HankAzaria voice Venom.
7th Jan '16 10:07:58 PM nombretomado
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*** Partially justified, in that they usually start with Peter just / only recently getting his powers, which is when Flash ''was'' the resident JerkJock. However, when you look at the animated series from the mid-90's and ''TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' Flash started out as the JerkJock, but underwent CharacterDevelopment and became a JerkWithAHeartOfGold, whilst 2012's ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan'' shows Flash's transformation in the span of a single movie.
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*** Partially justified, in that they usually start with Peter just / only recently getting his powers, which is when Flash ''was'' the resident JerkJock. However, when you look at the animated series from the mid-90's and ''TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' ''WesternAnimation/TheSpectacularSpiderMan'' Flash started out as the JerkJock, but underwent CharacterDevelopment and became a JerkWithAHeartOfGold, whilst 2012's ''Film/TheAmazingSpiderMan'' shows Flash's transformation in the span of a single movie.
7th Jan '16 1:59:22 PM ImSpideyTropes
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** Many people seem to like Venom - notably Eddie Brock and Flash Thompson.
3rd Jan '16 12:00:05 PM JulianLapostat
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--> '''[[http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/01/spider-man-in-love/384860/ Ta-Nehisi Coates]]''': I wouldn't argue that the Parker-Watson marriage was always well-written and well-drawn...But in a genre aimed at young males, it is very hard for me to come up with a more mature, and I would say healthy, vision of what a marriage should look like. Mary Jane Watson was not looking to be saved. If anything, she wanted Peter Parker to stop saving people. She did not need Peter Parker. She was not fashioned especially to be his wife. She was a human and seemed as though she would have been with Peter Parker, or without him...''One More Day ''felt like an erasure of what had been one of its more unintentionally bold endeavors—the attempt to allow a superhero to grow up, to be more than Peter Pan, to confront the tragic world as it was, to imagine life beyond what should have been.
31st Dec '15 3:25:13 AM MagBas
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* BlackHoleSue: Aunt May at times. More than once someone has argued that May is the "most important person" in Peter Parker's life, which tends to lead to a lot of creepy associations. In reality, she largely tends to be the person Peter structures his life around, all the while making him feel guilty whenever he lives his own life. A recent story said that Peter's "greatest sin" was running off the night of Uncle Ben's death to bring in his murderer and not sticking around to comfort Aunt May. Because Peter couldn't have been dealing with any emotional problem of his own. ** Prior to ''One More Day,'' when Aunt May was shot and mortally wounded by one of Kingpin's assassins, Peter was approached by The One Above All (the Marvel Universe's equivalent of God) who told him that it was Aunt May's time to die and that he needed to accept it so that he could move on with his own life. When God himself comes down and tells someone that they're too attached to their maternal figure, it's usually a good idea to listen. *** Perhaps The One should have appeared before Joe Quesada instead.

* CanonSue: Uncle Ben is sometimes seen as this due to the way he never seems to do anything ''wrong'' in flashbacks. The result is that he comes off as a paragon of virtue who was always right. Even in death, he continues to be the most influential force in Spidey's life.

*** Speaking of ''Superior Spider-Man'', ''she'' is the first person to figure out that Peter is obviously acting incredibly out of character and decides to investigate. Not Mary Jane, the love of his life who has discovered other Spider-Man impostors on her own before. Not Aunt May, the woman who raised him. Not even the ''freaking Avengers'', who have fought side by side with him for ''years''! This woman is the one who figures it out, in the most simple way possible: She follows Spidey's money trail that he's using to pay for his minions and gear, and it belongs to Otto Octavius. The main character, who many criticize for being a VillainSue, made such a stupid mistake, and yet nobody figures it out but Carlie. This one might be justified by the fact she does work for the police, but when you have the Avengers in the equation...
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*** Speaking of ''Superior Spider-Man'', ''she'' is the first person to figure out that Peter is obviously acting incredibly out of character and decides to investigate. Not Mary Jane, the love of his life who has discovered other Spider-Man impostors on her own before. Not Aunt May, the woman who raised him. Not even the ''freaking Avengers'', who have fought side by side with him for ''years''! This woman is the one who figures it out, in the most simple way possible: She follows Spidey's money trail that he's using to pay for his minions and gear, and it belongs to Otto Octavius. The main character, who many criticize for being a VillainSue, stupid villain, made such a stupid mistake, and yet nobody figures it out but Carlie. This one might be justified by the fact she does work for the police, but when you have the Avengers in the equation...

* PuritySue: Gwen Stacy's posthumous characterization. In her very first appearance, Creator/SteveDitko (who drew and plotted the stories then) made her far more harsh and cold, very much an UptownGirl who found Peter attractive (with him oblivious to it) because he wasn't drooling after her like the other boys, in essence an {{Expy}} of early-Liz Allan. In the Romita stories, she was characterized into a more demure, kinder "ideal woman". Indeed Gerry Conway, author of her final story said that he largely wrote her death because he saw no potential for the character and stated that the only reason she's famous is because of her death: --> ''"[[http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47030 Gwen in the comics, and I'll defend this till my dying day, was much more interesting after she was killed than she ever was as a character]]."'' * RelationshipSue: Carlie Cooper appeared on the cover of ''The Many Loves of Spider-Man'' before even hooking up with Peter. ** Silk is an even worse example: her hormones forces Peter to make-out with her within the first five minutes.

** Carlie Cooper's increasingly PuritySue-like portrayal is resulting in a massive backlash from fans. Originally it was more along the lines of ReplacementScrappy for [[BaseBreaker MJ]], but it escalated when everyone, from past girlfriends to best friends, kept telling Peter how 'right' she was for him because she's his 'intellectual equal'. It was REALLY not helped by the fact she would get mad at Peter for the stupidest things, was pushed as a Woobie because her hero cop dad supposedly died only to be revealed he wasn't a hero and wasn't dead, act like a hypocrite, amongst other problems. She's also received ire for having similar characteristics as four of Peter's past love interests: troubles with father (MJ), NerdsAreSexy and attempted Adorkable (Deb Whitman), loves Peter for him (MJ, and an invert of Black Cat), is old friends with Harry Osborn, a tsundere, and Peter's 'true love' and perfect girl (Gwen). You could make the case that the writers are trying to evoke Gwen Stacy in her character, but in the end comes off as a lot like Lana Lang in Smallville and the equally hated film version of [[InNameOnly Mary Jane]]. In the aftermath of ''ComicBook/SpiderIsland'', she was demoted to a supporting cast member without romantic interest in Peter.
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** Carlie Cooper's increasingly PuritySue-like portrayal is resulting in a massive backlash from fans. Originally it was more along the lines of ReplacementScrappy for [[BaseBreaker MJ]], but it escalated when everyone, from past girlfriends to best friends, kept telling Peter how 'right' she was for him because she's his 'intellectual equal'. It was REALLY not helped by the fact she would get mad at Peter for the stupidest things, was pushed as a Woobie because her hero cop dad supposedly died only to be revealed he wasn't a hero and wasn't dead, act like a hypocrite, amongst other problems. She's also received ire for having similar characteristics as four of Peter's past love interests: troubles with father (MJ), NerdsAreSexy and attempted Adorkable (Deb Whitman), loves Peter for him (MJ, and an invert of Black Cat), is old friends with Harry Osborn, a tsundere, and Peter's 'true love' and perfect girl (Gwen). You could make the case that the writers are trying to evoke Gwen Stacy in her character, but in the end comes off as a lot like Lana Lang in Smallville and the equally hated film version of [[InNameOnly Mary Jane]]. In the aftermath of ''ComicBook/SpiderIsland'', she was demoted to a supporting cast member without romantic interest in Peter.

** All of the Inheritors except Morlun and Karn. While some dislike Morlun, most are ambivalent towards him and he had a mysterious and scary vibe that made him a decent addition to the RoguesGallery. The others on the other hand are generally considered boring and annoying at best, [[VillainSue Villain Sues]] who ruin Morlun's style at worst. Two stand out in particular:
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** All of the Inheritors except Morlun and Karn. While some dislike Morlun, most are ambivalent towards him and he had a mysterious and scary vibe that made him a decent addition to the RoguesGallery. The others on the other hand are generally considered boring and annoying at best, [[VillainSue Villain Sues]] who and ruin Morlun's style at worst. Two stand out in particular:

*** Morlum's father Solus, for being a blatant VillainSue capable of [[spoiler: killing Captain Universe!Spider-Man with little effort, despite the latter being a PhysicalGod.]]
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*** Morlum's father Solus, for being a blatant VillainSue capable of [[spoiler: killing Captain Universe!Spider-Man with little effort, despite the latter being a PhysicalGod.]]

** Silk reached this territory faster and harder than any other previous love interest. After barely one issue and without any previous chemistry, she and Peter just can't get their hands off each other. All explained only by the totem connection they share due to both being bitten by the same radioactive spider. The fact that she's arguably a text book MarySue doesn't help. Not to mention Black Cat's FaceHeelTurn. Or Mary Jane getting a firefighter boyfriend, which some fans see as her settling for a lesser version of Spidey (being a person who risks his own life to save others).
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** Silk reached this territory faster and harder than any other previous love interest. After barely one issue and without any previous chemistry, she and Peter just can't get their hands off each other. All explained only by the totem connection they share due to both being bitten by the same radioactive spider. The fact that she's arguably a text book MarySue doesn't help. Not to mention Black Cat's FaceHeelTurn. Or Mary Jane getting a firefighter boyfriend, which some fans see as her settling for a lesser version of Spidey (being a person who risks his own life to save others).

** ComicBook/{{Silk}}. Although in her case, it's more a case of "They Wasted Her Introduction". Most people agree that she's a pretty cool character in her ongoing series, written by Robbie Thompson. Her fans point out that all the ingredients were there from the beginning, but most agree that Slott did a poor job with her, to say the least. Many feel sorry that a lot of people won't give her a second chance because of it, and thus they will keep seeing her as a blatant MarySue.
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** ComicBook/{{Silk}}. Although in her case, it's more a case of "They Wasted Her Introduction". Most people agree that she's a pretty cool character in her ongoing series, written by Robbie Thompson. Her fans point out that all the ingredients were there from the beginning, but most agree that Slott did a poor job with her, to say the least. Many feel sorry that a lot of people won't give her a second chance because of it, and thus they will keep seeing her as a blatant MarySue.it.
22nd Dec '15 7:55:53 AM MagBas
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** Silk is quickly on her way to becoming this. She's [[CharacterShilling constantly played up by others]], became Peter's new girlfriend in ''the same issue she makes her debut'', [[MarySue has all of Spidey's powers but better]], and even got her own ongoing even though fans by large despise her. Given this, hopes for her ongoing aren't exactly high, which makes the decision rather bizarre; why give her an ongoing rather than giving one to an established hero who could actually stand a chance of supporting an ongoing.
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** Silk is quickly on her way to becoming this. She's [[CharacterShilling constantly played up by others]], became Peter's new girlfriend in ''the same issue she makes her debut'', [[MarySue has all of Spidey's powers but better]], better, and even got her own ongoing even though fans by large despise her. Given this, hopes for her ongoing aren't exactly high, which makes the decision rather bizarre; why give her an ongoing rather than giving one to an established hero who could actually stand a chance of supporting an ongoing.
21st Dec '15 4:03:25 PM Arcolops
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*** Should be noted that after much CharacterDevelopment she did grow to love and care for Peter Parker as much as Spider-Man, but by that time he was already married to MJ.
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*** Should be noted that after much plenty of CharacterDevelopment she did grow to love and care for Peter Parker as much as Spider-Man, but by that time he was already married to MJ.
21st Dec '15 3:58:51 PM Arcolops
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The ones who prefer Barnes are a vocal minority at best.
* CantUnhearIt: Go on, try to not imagine Creator/JoshKeaton's or Christopher Daniel Barnes' voice coming out of Spidey. It's actually started quite the heated debate in the fandom over which voice is better.
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* CantUnhearIt: Go on, try to not imagine Creator/JoshKeaton's or Christopher Daniel Barnes' voice coming out of Spidey. It's actually started quite the heated debate in the fandom over which voice is better.Spidey.
11th Dec '15 8:09:53 PM chopshop
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This isn't Values Dissonance, just complaining about a story.
* CanonSue: Uncle Ben. In flashbacks, he's depicted as nothing less than the perfect husband and father figure as well as a paragon of virtue who was always right. Even in death, he continues to be the most influential force in Spidey's life. Sometimes to a ridiculous degree as Peter can't even put on his shoes if he thinks Uncle Ben would disprove of the way he's doing it. It could even be argued that the moral standard Ben set for Peter is the reason why Peter hasn't advanced as financially or socially as someone with his intelligence should.
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* CanonSue: Uncle Ben. In flashbacks, he's depicted Ben is sometimes seen as nothing less than this due to the perfect husband and father figure as well way he never seems to do anything ''wrong'' in flashbacks. The result is that he comes off as a paragon of virtue who was always right. Even in death, he continues to be the most influential force in Spidey's life. Sometimes to a ridiculous degree as Peter can't even put on his shoes if he thinks Uncle Ben would disprove of the way he's doing it. It could even be argued that the moral standard Ben set for Peter is the reason why Peter hasn't advanced as financially or socially as someone with his intelligence should.

** Mary Jane Watson, to the point that a large majority of the book's fanbase consider her and not Aunt May to be the most important person in Peter's life.

*** To a lesser extent, Toxin's father Carnage and grandfather Venom.

** Flash has become the new, heroic Venom and has his own ongoing series. ** Mr. Negative is one of the better liked new villains from ''BND''. ** The Shocker. A goofy costume, a NonindicativeName (his powers are based on vibration and air blasts, not electricty) and a reputation for being a bit of a joke thanks to outside media and ''ComicBook/UltimateSpiderMan''. Yet thanks to his IneffectualSympatheticVillain and his more pragmatic approach to villainy (and perhaps being a big part of the '90s cartoon) fans absolutely love him. So much so that when Marvel ran a poll asking fans to pick the next member of the Thunderbolts, Shocker won quite handily in a poll that included characters like Sandman and Absorbing Man.
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** Flash has become Thompson became this after he was given CharacterDevelopment that led to him becoming a steadfast ally and friend to Peter. He's also the new, heroic only Venom and has his own ongoing series. other than Eddie Brock who isn't either hated or ignored. ** Mr. Negative is one of and Overdrive are the better liked only new villains from ''BND''. ''BND'' that have managed to become liked by fans. ** The Shocker. A goofy costume, a NonindicativeName (his powers are based on vibration and air blasts, not electricty) and a reputation for being a bit of a joke thanks to outside media and ''ComicBook/UltimateSpiderMan''. Yet thanks to his IneffectualSympatheticVillain and his more pragmatic approach to villainy (and perhaps being a big part of the '90s cartoon) fans absolutely love him. So much so that when Marvel ran a poll asking fans to pick the next member of the Thunderbolts, Shocker won quite handily in a poll that included characters big names like Sandman and Absorbing Man.

** ComicBook/NormanOsborn is the considered to be the most popular Spider-Man Villain and the Best Goblin as well making a legacy of Goblin inspired Villains like Hobgoblin and his own son Harry.

** ComicBook/NormanOsborn Boomerang is the considered surprisingly beloved by fans due to being a hilarious {{Jerkass}} while still managing to be the most popular Spider-Man Villain oddly likable and the Best Goblin as well making a legacy of Goblin inspired Villains like Hobgoblin and his own son Harry.charismatic.

** Green Goblin's suit hasn't exactly aged well. Some artists ''can'' make it look genuinely creepy or cool, but largely, its kinda been in need of a serious update for a while. It got an update during the Creator/MarkMillar run on Marvel Knights Spider-Man (the amount of green is reduced and the suit was made to look more like armour with the familiar mask/cowl). Furthered during the WarrenEllis Thunderbolts run, which was closer to the original Ditko look but through a realistic lens, and genuinely creepy looking.
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** Green Goblin's suit hasn't exactly aged well. Some artists ''can'' make it look genuinely creepy or cool, but largely, its kinda been in need of a serious update for a while. It just not that scary looking. Fortunately it got an update during the Creator/MarkMillar run on Marvel Knights Spider-Man (the amount of green is reduced and the suit was made to look more like armour with the familiar mask/cowl). Furthered during the WarrenEllis Thunderbolts run, which was closer to the original Ditko look but through a realistic lens, and genuinely creepy looking.

* FranchiseOriginalSin: A lot of Spidey's [[DorkAge rough periods]] were brought about by the writers or editors becoming too scared of him aging and falling back on old tricks to prevent it. This began with the famous Gwen Stacy death plotline; behind the scenes it happened as a way for writer Gerry Conway to resolve the Gwen Stacy romance since she had become too close to Peter and realistically they would eventually marry and settle down which aged up the character considerably. It must be noted that Conway killed Gwen because he saw her as uninteresting compared to Mary-Jane and he stated later [[http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47030 that the only reason people remember Gwen was because of her death]]. Thing is, Gerry Conway was a decent writer and the storyline worked out pretty well, becoming a stunning WhamEpisode that changed the course of the series. When [[Creator/JoeQuesada a later editor]] developed the same fear of aging Peter too much, we got universally reviled storylines and retcons like ''[[ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan Sins Past]]'' and ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay''.
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* FranchiseOriginalSin: A lot of Spidey's [[DorkAge rough periods]] were brought about by the writers or editors becoming too scared of him aging and falling back on old tricks to prevent it. This began with the famous Gwen Stacy death plotline; behind the scenes it happened as a way for writer Gerry Conway to resolve the Gwen Stacy romance since she had become too close to Peter and realistically they would eventually marry and settle down which aged up the character considerably. It must be noted that Conway killed Gwen because he saw her as uninteresting compared to Mary-Jane and he stated later [[http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47030 that the only reason people remember Gwen was because of her death]]. Thing is, Gerry Conway was a decent writer and the storyline worked out pretty well, becoming a stunning WhamEpisode that changed the course of the series. When [[Creator/JoeQuesada a later editor]] developed the same fear of aging Peter too much, we got universally reviled storylines and retcons like ''[[ComicBook/JMSSpiderMan Sins Past]]'' and ''ComicBook/OneMoreDay''.

** Venom getting defeated by Spidey using a Zippo lighter.
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** The infamous scene where Venom getting was defeated by Spidey using a Zippo lighter.lighter. The writer ''probably'' meant for the scene to involve Spidey starting a big fire, playing off Venom's established weakness to extreme heat, but the art failed to convey this. As result this fight tends to be cited a lot when people believe Venom is experiencing VillainDecay.

** Ben Reilly. As noted above, we was fairly popular due to his maturity during ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga'', but the idea of him being the original had this effect.
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** Ben Reilly. As noted above, we he was fairly popular due to his maturity during ''ComicBook/TheCloneSaga'', but the idea of him being the original had this effect.

*** Another villain Scrappy would be Daemos, Morlun's bigger, dumber, eviler brother. Mostly for having very few personality traits beyond... "big, dumb, and evil." Also because he [[spoiler: killed MC2 Peter Parker and Spider-Man Unlimited.]] *** Morlum's father Solus too, for being a blatant VillainSue capable of [[spoiler: killing Captain Universe!Spider-Man with little effort, despite the latter being a PhysicalGod.]]
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*** Another villain Scrappy would be Daemos, Morlun's bigger, dumber, eviler brother. Mostly for having very few personality traits beyond... "big, dumb, and evil." Also because he [[spoiler: killed MC2 Peter Parker and Spider-Man Unlimited.]] *** Morlum's father Solus too, Solus, for being a blatant VillainSue capable of [[spoiler: killing Captain Universe!Spider-Man with little effort, despite the latter being a PhysicalGod.]]

*** Another villain Scrappy would be Daemos, Morlun's bigger, dumber, eviler brother. Mostly for having very few personality traits beyond... "big, dumb, and evil." Also because he [[spoiler: killed MC2 Peter Parker and * ToughActToFollow: Part of the reason all the replacement Hobgoblins were so hated. Roderick Kingsley set a ludicrously high bar with his outstanding success rate against Spider-Man Unlimited.]] *** Morlum's father Solus too, for being a blatant VillainSue capable of [[spoiler: killing Captain Universe!Spider-Man with little effort, despite the latter being a PhysicalGod.]] and general coolness, so when guys like Jason Macendale or Phil Urich turned up they had their every move compared to Kingsley's.

* ValuesDissonance: If something like Gwen Stacey's death was done today, it would be derided as a textbook case of a female character being StuffedIntoTheFridge for the sake of manpain. But in the 1970s, when comic book characters of either gender were hardly ever permanently killed off, it was seen as a turning point of the whole medium and is still respected as such even now. The reason why that infamous trope is not named "''Dropped From A Bridge''" is that, rather than using it for cheap drama, Gerry Conway really went out of his way to explore the repercussions of Gwen's death on Peter in a pretty tasteful way for most of his run. Plus, said repercussions can still be felt up to this day.
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