History YMMV / SpartacusBloodAndSand

16th Apr '16 1:37:07 PM ACW
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** [[TokenEvilTeammate Nemetes]], from ''War of the Damned,''proves that [[BlackAndGrayMorality not even the rebels are devoid of evil in their ranks]]. Initially a callous {{Jerkass}} of the German slaves, once the rebels have taken a Roman city, Spartacus does his best to ensure that the prisoners are treated with every respect and courtesy. Nemetes kidnaps a Roman Domina and rapes and tortures her for sport, prostituting her to be tortured or brutalized by soldiers he knows will go for it. When Julius Caesar is disguised amongst the rebels, Nemetes demands he show his loyalty by hurting the brutalized girl even more, [[EvenEvilHasStandards which horrifies even the hardened Roman]] and forces him to deliver a MercyKill. When Caesar sheds his façade and puts Nemetes at sword point, Nemetes [[DirtyCoward simply tries to bargain to betray Spartacus and turn over all the armies and civilians with them]] to the Romans if he can escape; an offer Caesar rejects.

to:

** [[TokenEvilTeammate Nemetes]], from ''War of the Damned,''proves Damned,'' proves that [[BlackAndGrayMorality not even the rebels are devoid of evil in their ranks]]. Initially a callous {{Jerkass}} of the German slaves, once the rebels have taken a Roman city, Spartacus does his best to ensure that the prisoners are treated with every respect and courtesy. Nemetes kidnaps a Roman Domina and rapes and tortures her for sport, prostituting her to be tortured or brutalized by soldiers he knows will go for it. When Julius Caesar is disguised amongst the rebels, Nemetes demands he show his loyalty by hurting the brutalized girl even more, [[EvenEvilHasStandards which horrifies even the hardened Roman]] and forces him to deliver a MercyKill. When Caesar sheds his façade and puts Nemetes at sword point, Nemetes [[DirtyCoward simply tries to bargain to betray Spartacus and turn over all the armies and civilians with them]] to the Romans if he can escape; an offer Caesar rejects.
16th Apr '16 7:03:19 AM ACW
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Cossutius is the worst example of unchecked Roman excess. A SmugSnake aristocrat (and the actor's face even looks kinda snake-like for added effect), he extorts a favor from the House of Batiatus by requesting a “show” from a virgin slave girl. He selects the girl Diona as he knows he can hurt her more and forces her to lose her virginity to a brutish, dirty, filthy gladiator, mocking Diona all the while as an 'example' of how ugliness and beauty co-exist before anally raping her during her ordeal. Cossutius later shows sheer glee at Diona's execution and at a Roman party is the first to gleefully torture a bound Gladiator for nothing more than entertainment.
** Nemetes is a sign that [[BlackAndGrayMorality not even the rebels are devoid of evil in their ranks]]. Initially a callous {{Jerkass}} of the German warriors, then the Rebels have taken a Roman city, Spartacus does his best to insure the prisoners are treated with every respect and courtesy. Nemetes kidnaps a Roman Domina and rapes and tortures her for sport, prostituting her to be tortured or brutalized by soldiers he knows will go for it. When Julius Caesar is disguised amongst the rebels, Nemetes demands he show his loyalty by hurting the brutalized girl even more, [[EvenEvilHasStandards which horrifies even the hardened Roman]] and forces him to deliver a MercyKill. When Caesar sheds his facade and puts Nemetes at sword point, Nemetes [[DirtyCoward simply tries to bargain to betray Spartacus and turn over all the armies and civilians with them]] to the Romans if he can escape; an offer [[KarmicDeath Caesar]] [[PayEvilUntoEvil rejects.]]

to:

** Cossutius Cossutius, from the ''Vengeance'' episodes "[[Recap/SpartacusBloodAndSandS2E4EmptyHands Empty Hands]]" and "[[Recap/SpartacusBloodAndSandS2E5Libertus Libertus]]", and the prequel season ''Gods of the Arena'', is the worst example of unchecked Roman excess. A SmugSnake aristocrat (and the actor's face even looks kinda snake-like for added effect), {{aristocrat|s Are Evil}}, he extorts a favor from the House of Batiatus by requesting a “show” from a virgin slave girl. He selects the girl Diona as he knows he can hurt her more and forces her to lose her virginity to a brutish, dirty, filthy gladiator, mocking Diona all the while as an 'example' “example“ of how ugliness and beauty co-exist before anally raping her during her ordeal. Cossutius later shows sheer glee at Diona's execution execution, and at a Roman party is the first to gleefully torture a bound Gladiator for nothing more than entertainment.
** Nemetes
entertainment. Furthermore, Cossutius is a sign serial rapist. He makes it explicitly clear he chooses Diona due to her being a virgin, and makes it quite clear virgins don't exist in his household for that reason. In sexual sadism, Cossutius is well above his fellow Romans.
** [[TokenEvilTeammate Nemetes]], from ''War of the Damned,''proves
that [[BlackAndGrayMorality not even the rebels are devoid of evil in their ranks]]. Initially a callous {{Jerkass}} of the German warriors, then slaves, once the Rebels rebels have taken a Roman city, Spartacus does his best to insure ensure that the prisoners are treated with every respect and courtesy. Nemetes kidnaps a Roman Domina and rapes and tortures her for sport, prostituting her to be tortured or brutalized by soldiers he knows will go for it. When Julius Caesar is disguised amongst the rebels, Nemetes demands he show his loyalty by hurting the brutalized girl even more, [[EvenEvilHasStandards which horrifies even the hardened Roman]] and forces him to deliver a MercyKill. When Caesar sheds his facade façade and puts Nemetes at sword point, Nemetes [[DirtyCoward simply tries to bargain to betray Spartacus and turn over all the armies and civilians with them]] to the Romans if he can escape; an offer [[KarmicDeath Caesar]] [[PayEvilUntoEvil Caesar rejects.]]
13th Apr '16 7:56:21 AM ACW
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Tullius from ''Gods of the Arena'' is a {{greed}}y, {{sadist}}ic, [[SmugSnake smug]], FauxAffablyEvil, power-drunken [[AristocratsAreEvil aristocrat]]. He first orders Batiatus to get a NoHoldsBarredBeatdown for refusing to sell Gannicus to him, after Batiatus had been nothing but respectful to him. He manipulates Titus into crashing his own son's plans. At the orgy, he challenges Gannicus to a swordfight that Gannicus, as a slave, cannot win, and has the balls to mock him for it. However, he takes a running leap over the MoralEventHorizon and confirms his status as a [[KickTheDog dog-kicking juggernaut]] in Episode 4 when Gaia, in order to help Lucretia, offers herself to him. At first, he accepts and has sex with her-then he cheerfully [[WouldHitAGirl kills her]], just to make clear that, as an aristocrat, [[ScrewTheRulesIMakeThem he can do whatever he wants]].
18th Mar '16 3:27:34 AM fearlessnikki
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* FansPreferTheNewHer: Acknowledged in-universe. Lucretia looks quite good when she goes back to wearing her red wigs in ''Vengeance''. Unfortunately she's wearing them at Ashur's orders - after he's been raping her. Notably there's one scene where Illythia complements Lucretia on how good the red hair looks, only for the latter to shudder.


Added DiffLines:

** Seeing Varo getting a hard time in training is amusing if you've seen Jai Courtney in ''{{Literature/Divergent}}'' where ''he'' is the DrillSergeantNasty.
** If you're aware of the New Zealand sitcom ''Series/DiplomaticImmunity'', both Craig Parker (Glaber) and Lesley Ann Brandt (the first Naevia) starred together in that as ''love interests''. Hilariously in that case it was Brandt's character who outranked Parker's (she was the king's niece).
23rd Feb '16 4:06:37 AM fearlessnikki
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* TheScrappy: Naevia 2. Not only is the new actress replacing an already popular one, but her acting is incredibly weak.

to:

* TheScrappy: Naevia 2. Not only is the new actress ReplacementScrappy: Cynthia Addai Robinson replacing an already popular one, Lesley Ann Brandt as Naevia. Unfortunately for her, the cast change also coincided with a massive personality change for Naevia. The character had gone through a TraumaCongaLine and at first was a DamselScrappy but her acting is incredibly weak. then became a BloodKnight. General consensus seems to be that Lesley Ann Brandt would have been able to make Naevia seem sympathetic despite this - but that the change in actress made it seem like it was a completely new character.


Added DiffLines:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter: Diona in ''Gods of the Arena'' is mainly a side character who gets minimal screen time. [[spoiler: She's killed off in the finale to wrap things up, when she could have played a bigger part in ''Vengeance'' especially as a character besides Crixus who has a connection to Naevia]].
21st Aug '15 9:01:08 PM CaptainCrawdad
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ValuesDissonance: Though Batiatus and Lucretia do violate many of Rome's own laws and customs regarding slaves and servants, many of their actions are only abhorrent by modern standards, considered perfectly normal (even just) by their fellow Romans.
** Subverted when Batiatus [[spoiler: is almost ready to kill his own father for love of his wife: even if it could be seen as brave, for the ancient Romans patricide was the ultimate MoralEventHorizon]]. Played straight because [[spoiler: being ready to face your own father's wrath for love was something only a Roman with adamantium balls would have done.]]
** Fifteen-year-old Numerius is listed several times on this wiki as an example of [[spoiler: a subversion of InfantImmortality or the victim of WouldHurtAChild for when Aurelia killed him in revenge for Varro's death.]] Legally speaking, he was an adult by the standards of Roman society. Granted, few of the main characters acknowledge him as such, and still think of him as a child.
** And in-universe issue for Crassus, who owns slaves while still respecting their intelligence and prowess. This trope also summarizes his relationship with Kore [[spoiler:all the way until the bitter end.]]
** Both in general and in character for Julius Caesar. He almost rapes Kore in the beginning until he finds out how important she is to Crassus. Then he becomes her biggest defender after [[spoiler:Tiberius rapes her]], possibly because [[spoiler:Tiberius rapes him, too]]. That and his deep sympathy for Romans and disdain for slaves.
* TheWoobie: Pietros spends about an episode as this [[spoiler:and then kills himself.]]
** Don't forget Diona, who undergoes a spectacular TraumaCongaLine that seems to have ended in her emancipation. It hasn't.

to:

* ValuesDissonance: Though Batiatus and Lucretia do violate many of Rome's own laws and customs regarding slaves and servants, many of their actions are only abhorrent by modern standards, considered perfectly normal (even just) by their fellow Romans.
TheWoobie:
** Subverted when Batiatus [[spoiler: is almost ready to kill his own father for love of his wife: even if it could be seen Pietros spends about an episode as brave, for the ancient Romans patricide was the ultimate MoralEventHorizon]]. Played straight because [[spoiler: being ready to face your own father's wrath for love was something only a Roman with adamantium balls would have done.this [[spoiler:and then kills himself.]]
** Fifteen-year-old Numerius is listed several times on this wiki as an example of [[spoiler: a subversion of InfantImmortality or the victim of WouldHurtAChild for when Aurelia killed him in revenge for Varro's death.]] Legally speaking, he was an adult by the standards of Roman society. Granted, few of the main characters acknowledge him as such, and still think of him as a child.
** And in-universe issue for Crassus, who owns slaves while still respecting their intelligence and prowess. This trope also summarizes his relationship with Kore [[spoiler:all the way until the bitter end.]]
** Both in general and in character for Julius Caesar. He almost rapes Kore in the beginning until he finds out how important she is to Crassus. Then he becomes her biggest defender after [[spoiler:Tiberius rapes her]], possibly because [[spoiler:Tiberius rapes him, too]]. That and his deep sympathy for Romans and disdain for slaves.
* TheWoobie: Pietros spends about an episode as this [[spoiler:and then kills himself.]]
** Don't forget
Diona, who undergoes a spectacular TraumaCongaLine that seems to have ended in her emancipation. It hasn't.
21st Aug '15 9:00:00 PM CaptainCrawdad
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
** Naevia in ''War of the Damned''. We were supposed to feel sorry for her after the series of unfortunate events that happened to her between her disappearance near the end of ''Blood and Sand'' to her rescue in ''Vengeance''. And yes, those were ''not'' pretty. But, [[spoiler: being a paranoid DarkActionGirl who hurts or kills people and even members of her own team either because they reminded her of those who treated her like crap or she suspects them as a traitor]] won't do just that. Also, being a [[spoiler: LadyMacbeth to [[TheLancer Crixus]] by constantly suggesting her lover to overthrow Spartacus as the top RebelLeader not only counts as grade-A {{Ungrateful Bastard}}ness, but it also showed that she's NotSoDifferent from her original domina Lucretia that she and her lover despises so much.]] This may also be due to the fact that her character changed significantly at the same time her actress did, which makes it that much harder for the audience to relate.
** [[spoiler: Barca]] during his death. The show establishes him as a JerkWithAHeartOfGold in his last episode, and while his death wasn't treated with AndThereWasMuchRejoicing, the general attitude towards his demise was "he had it coming", especially since [[spoiler: his habit of bullying Rookie gladiators borders on extreme KickTheDog, with the mastermind behind his FrameUp being his constant victim for a number of years dating back to the latter's rookie years]].

to:

* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic:
** Naevia in ''War of the Damned''. We were supposed to feel sorry for her after the series of unfortunate events that happened to her between her disappearance near the end of ''Blood and Sand'' to her rescue in ''Vengeance''. And yes, those were ''not'' pretty. But, [[spoiler: being a paranoid DarkActionGirl who hurts or kills people and even members of her own team either because they reminded her of those who treated her like crap or she suspects them as a traitor]] won't do just that. Also, being a [[spoiler: LadyMacbeth to [[TheLancer Crixus]] by constantly suggesting her lover to overthrow Spartacus as the top RebelLeader not only counts as grade-A {{Ungrateful Bastard}}ness, but it also showed that she's NotSoDifferent from her original domina Lucretia that she and her lover despises so much.]] This may also be due to the fact that her character changed significantly at the same time her actress did, which makes it that much harder for the audience to relate.
**
UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: [[spoiler: Barca]] during his death. The show establishes him as a JerkWithAHeartOfGold in his last episode, and while his death wasn't treated with AndThereWasMuchRejoicing, the general attitude towards his demise was "he had it coming", especially since [[spoiler: his habit of bullying Rookie gladiators borders on extreme KickTheDog, with the mastermind behind his FrameUp being his constant victim for a number of years dating back to the latter's rookie years]].
21st Aug '15 8:56:41 PM CaptainCrawdad
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Deliberately invoked, not by the characters, but the creators; in Episode 3 of ''Gods of the Arena'', Barca defeats Gnaeus in the arena and is ordered to spare his life. [[spoiler:Of course, Gnaeus is the one who beats and rapes Pietros, driving him to suicide after Barca's death.]]
** Also in episode 3 of ''Gods of the Arena'', Auctus' taunt to the then rookie Crixus before their match.
---> [[spoiler: You will die at the end of my spear!]]
* HilariousInHindsight: When you consider the great length at which Lucretia extols her hatred of Thracians and then you remember Series/{{Xena}} was Thracian, it is hard not to chuckle.
** Creator/ManuBennett not only plays a Roman (Mark Antony) in ''Series/{{Xena}}: Warrior Princess'', but falls in love with [[Creator/LucyLawless Xena]] (who was disguised as Cleopatra). [[spoiler: After Mark Antony finds out and feels betrayed, Xena reluctantly ends up having to kill Mark Antony, stabbing him with her sword.]]
** Agron's snarky remark "Fuck my ass" to Spartacus in the season 1 finale becomes this in ''Vengeance''.

to:

* HilariousInHindsight:
** Deliberately invoked, not by the characters, but the creators; in Episode 3 of ''Gods of the Arena'', Barca defeats Gnaeus in the arena and is ordered to spare his life. [[spoiler:Of course, Gnaeus is the one who beats and rapes Pietros, driving him to suicide after Barca's death.]]
** Also in episode 3 of ''Gods of the Arena'', Auctus' taunt to the then rookie Crixus before their match.
---> [[spoiler: You will die at the end of my spear!]]
* HilariousInHindsight:
When you consider the great length at which Lucretia extols her hatred of Thracians and then you remember Series/{{Xena}} was Thracian, it is hard not to chuckle.
** Creator/ManuBennett not only plays a Roman (Mark Antony) in ''Series/{{Xena}}: Warrior Princess'', but falls in love with [[Creator/LucyLawless Xena]] (who was disguised as Cleopatra). [[spoiler: After Mark Antony finds out and feels betrayed, Xena reluctantly ends up having to kill Mark Antony, stabbing him with her sword.]]
** Agron's snarky remark "Fuck my ass" to Spartacus in the season 1 finale becomes this in ''Vengeance''.
chuckle.
21st Aug '15 8:53:30 PM CaptainCrawdad
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Crasus willingly hands over Laeta (a fellow Roman and one of standing) over to the Pirate Heracleo as a sex slave. But only after he treats her to a bath, change of clothes and probes her about Spartacus. Even the other Romans are shocked by his cruelty when he brings back the practise of decimation.
21st Aug '15 8:52:27 PM CaptainCrawdad
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* FunnyAneurysmMoment: The Season 1 DVD special features showed Creator/AndyWhitfield, exhausted after a workout, saying he hopes he's still around when the series ends. We all know what happened after Season 1 ended. [[note]] He stepped out due to cancer and died in 2011.[[/note]]

to:

* FunnyAneurysmMoment: The Season 1 DVD special features showed Creator/AndyWhitfield, exhausted after a workout, saying he hopes he's still around when the series ends. We all know what happened after Season 1 ended. [[note]] He stepped out due to cancer and died in 2011.[[/note]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 171. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.SpartacusBloodAndSand