History YMMV / Mulan

17th Jun '18 3:19:03 AM plcthecd
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** The "Mulan is transgender" idea comes more from Westerners trying to shoehorn gender roles in the story, than the story itself. [[https://herskyofdiamonds.tumblr.com/post/144898410455/tealish-pink-onward-waywardson More than one Chinese-American and Chinese fan has reacted rather angrily at this]]. The problem is not that Mulan wants to be male -- the problem is that the sexist nature of her society does not allow [[MenAreTheExpendableGender women to contribute to the war effort.]]

to:

** The "Mulan is transgender" idea comes more from Westerners trying to shoehorn gender roles in the story, than the story itself. [[https://herskyofdiamonds.tumblr.com/post/144898410455/tealish-pink-onward-waywardson More than one Chinese-American and Chinese fan has reacted rather angrily at this]].this. The problem is not that Mulan wants to be male -- the problem is that the sexist nature of her society does not allow [[MenAreTheExpendableGender women to contribute to the war effort.]]
29th Mar '18 4:12:07 PM system
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29th Mar '18 4:08:56 PM dsgjnkjkjkygfh
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* TheWoobie: Mulan really makes you feel for her after her disaster with the matchmaker, especially when she sings about her struggles in "Reflection". And when she's abandoned in the mountains and left feeling like a worthless failure, it's again very easy for the viewer to feel sad for her.
%% ** Shang, when he loses his father to Shan Yu and his army, although he is this of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, as he manages to stay composed.

to:

* TheWoobie: Shang, of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, when loses his father to Shan Yu and his army. Mulan really makes you feel for her also starts off as one after her the disaster with the matchmaker, especially when she sings about her struggles in "Reflection". And shown through "Reflection", and later becomes one again when she's outed as a woman, abandoned in the mountains and left feeling like a worthless failure, it's again very easy for the viewer to feel sad for her.
%% ** Shang, when he loses his father to Shan Yu and his army, although he is this of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, as he manages to stay composed.
failure. Fortunately, it doesn't last long.
12th Mar '18 5:37:53 PM nombretomado
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** Shang, when he loses his father to Shan Yu and his army, although he is this of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, as he manages to stay composed.

to:

%% ** Shang, when he loses his father to Shan Yu and his army, although he is this of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, as he manages to stay composed.
12th Mar '18 5:36:45 PM system
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12th Mar '18 5:01:49 PM nombretomado
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* TheWoobie: Shang, of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, when loses his father to Shan Yu and his army. Mulan also starts off as one after the disaster with the matchmaker, shown through "Reflection", and later becomes one again when she's outed as a woman, abandoned in the mountains and left feeling like a worthless failure. Fortunately, it doesn't last long.

to:

* TheWoobie: Shang, of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, when loses his father to Shan Yu and his army. Mulan also starts off as one after the disaster with the matchmaker, shown through "Reflection", and later becomes one again when she's outed as a woman, abandoned in the mountains and left feeling like a worthless failure. Fortunately, it doesn't last long.long.
%%** Shang, of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, when loses his father to Shan Yu and his army.
11th Mar '18 6:17:07 PM FHTGJTGFJUYGHI
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* TheWoobie: Mulan really makes you feel for her after her disaster with the matchmaker, especially when she sings about her struggles in "Reflection". And when she's abandoned in the mountains and left feeling like a worthless failure, it's again very easy for the viewer to feel sad for her.
** Shang, when he loses his father to Shan Yu and his army, although he is this of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, as he manages to stay composed.
%%ZCE Cri-Kee is arguably also one of these.

to:

* TheWoobie: Shang, of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, when loses his father to Shan Yu and his army. Mulan really makes you feel for her also starts off as one after her the disaster with the matchmaker, especially when she sings about her struggles in "Reflection". And shown through "Reflection", and later becomes one again when she's outed as a woman, abandoned in the mountains and left feeling like a worthless failure, it's again very easy for the viewer to feel sad for her.
** Shang, when he loses his father to Shan Yu and his army, although he is this of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, as he manages to stay composed.
%%ZCE Cri-Kee is arguably also one of these.
failure. Fortunately, it doesn't last long.
11th Mar '18 4:19:31 PM system
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11th Mar '18 3:24:53 PM DSFHTFHJTGJYUGHJ
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* TheWoobie: Mulan really makes you feel for her after her disaster with the matchmaker, especially when she sings about her struggles in "Reflection". And when she's abandoned in the mountains and left feeling like a worthless failure, it's again very easy for the viewer to feel sad for her.
** Shang, when he loses his father to Shan Yu and his army, although he is this of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, as he manages to stay composed.
%%ZCE Cri-Kee is arguably also one of these.

to:

* TheWoobie: Shang, of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, when loses his father to Shan Yu and his army. Mulan really makes you feel for her also starts off as one after her the disaster with the matchmaker, especially when she sings about her struggles in "Reflection". And shown through "Reflection", and later becomes one again when she's outed as a woman, abandoned in the mountains and left feeling like a worthless failure, it's again very easy for the viewer to feel sad for her.
** Shang, when he loses his father to Shan Yu and his army, although he is this of the [[IronWoobie iron]] variety, as he manages to stay composed.
%%ZCE Cri-Kee is arguably also one of these.
failure. Fortunately, it doesn't last long.
11th Mar '18 8:43:27 AM N8han11
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* AccidentalAesop: The titular protagonist is obviously intended as an example for girls to follow, and the rather blatantly feminist lesson is not to let your society's expectations (in this case, concerning femininity) prevent you from doing what you do best and keep you from doing what's right. Intentionally or otherwise, however, another lesson it teaches is "Don't knock patriarchal society until you've walked a few miles in its shoes." Something Mulan gets to experience from being on the front lines in a war is [[WarIsHell what kind of horrors the men are facing]] in hopes that their women won't have to. Also, while the villainous Shan Yu holds what many feminists would consider an enlightened view of women (the Huns and Xiongnu and other peoples of the steppes having no prohibitions against the women fighting alongside their men), all this means in practice is that he has [[WouldHitAGirl no sense of chivalry]] and no qualms whatsoever about slaughtering the women and children along with the men (as Mulan learns from the [[EmpathyDollShot Empathy Doll]] he left behind in a village his men burned to the ground). ValuesDissonance doesn't occur in a vacuum, after all; back before technology rendered superior physical strength and endurance less vital to victory in battle, even military forces that did permit the women to fight alongside men were majority male, and not ''every'' girl can grow up to be an ActionGirl GuileHero the way Mulan did.



* AccidentalAesop: The titular protagonist is obviously intended as an example for girls to follow, and the rather blatantly feminist lesson is not to let your society's expectations (in this case, concerning femininity) prevent you from doing what you do best and keep you from doing what's right. Intentionally or otherwise, however, another lesson it teaches is "Don't knock patriarchal society until you've walked a few miles in its shoes." Something Mulan gets to experience from being on the front lines in a war is [[WarIsHell what kind of horrors the men are facing]] in hopes that their women won't have to. Also, while the villainous Shan Yu holds what many feminists would consider an enlightened view of women (the Huns and Xiongnu and other peoples of the steppes having no prohibitions against the women fighting alongside their men), all this means in practice is that he has [[WouldHitAGirl no sense of chivalry]] and no qualms whatsoever about slaughtering the women and children along with the men (as Mulan learns from the [[EmpathyDollShot Empathy Doll]] he left behind in a village his men burned to the ground). ValuesDissonance doesn't occur in a vacuum, after all; back before technology rendered superior physical strength and endurance less vital to victory in battle, even military forces that did permit the women to fight alongside men were majority male, and not ''every'' girl can grow up to be an ActionGirl GuileHero the way Mulan did.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Mulan