History YMMV / MansfieldPark

12th Feb '16 11:02:25 AM GothicProphet
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** Also, Edmund is opposed to the play on many grounds - but one of them is the 'indecency' of his sisters being on stage in front of an audience, even a small family audience, something we would not bat an eye at today. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place, so his objection still ends up justified by modern standards, but his incredibly deep objections when Tom begins the scheme are still puzzling to modern readers.

to:

** Also, Edmund is opposed to the play on many grounds - but one of them is the 'indecency' of his sisters being on stage in front of an audience, even a small family audience, something we would not bat an eye at today. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place, so his objection still ends up justified by modern standards, but his incredibly deep objections when Tom begins the scheme are still puzzling to modern readers.readers.
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9th Feb '15 5:40:55 AM Julia1984
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* TakeThat: Mary Crawford's plan to fix the mess at the end is to make Henry Crawford marry Maria after her divorce and to help the couple build some kind of life together -- the standard, expected, and accepted solution of the day -- despite the fact that Henry knowingly and willingly ruined her [[DoubleStandard (they all know their society punishes the woman more than the man in these cases)]] and that all sorts of careful manipulation will be necessary to convince him to go through with it. Edmund Bertram is disgusted by the suggestion that his sister marrying such a rake -- "the chance of a marriage which, thinking as I now thought of her brother, should rather be prevented than sought" -- could be seen as a happy ending.



** Also, Edmund is opposed to the play on many grounds - but one of them is the 'indecency' of his sisters being on stage in front of an audience, even a small family audience, something we would not bat an eye at today. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place, so his objection still ends up justified by modern standards, but his incredibly deep objections when Tom begins the scheme are still puzzling to modern readers.
** Mary Crawford is a bad person because she wants Henry Crawford to be made to marry Maria, after her divorce - and to help the couple build some kind of life together. Edmund Bertram is a good person because ''he'' wants to chew scenery agonizing over the sin and shame of it all and then banish his sister to outer darkness. Hmmm.

to:

** Also, Edmund is opposed to the play on many grounds - but one of them is the 'indecency' of his sisters being on stage in front of an audience, even a small family audience, something we would not bat an eye at today. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place, so his objection still ends up justified by modern standards, but his incredibly deep objections when Tom begins the scheme are still puzzling to modern readers.
** Mary Crawford is a bad person because she wants Henry Crawford to be made to marry Maria, after her divorce - and to help the couple build some kind of life together. Edmund Bertram is a good person because ''he'' wants to chew scenery agonizing over the sin and shame of it all and then banish his sister to outer darkness. Hmmm.
readers.
15th Sep '14 2:37:16 PM roxana
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** Also, Edmund is opposed to the play on many grounds - but one of them is the 'indecency' of his sisters being on stage in front of an audience, even a small family audience, something we would not bat an eye at today. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place, so his objection still ends up justified by modern standards, but his incredibly deep objections when Tom begins the scheme are still puzzling to modern readers.

to:

** Also, Edmund is opposed to the play on many grounds - but one of them is the 'indecency' of his sisters being on stage in front of an audience, even a small family audience, something we would not bat an eye at today. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place, so his objection still ends up justified by modern standards, but his incredibly deep objections when Tom begins the scheme are still puzzling to modern readers.readers.
** Mary Crawford is a bad person because she wants Henry Crawford to be made to marry Maria, after her divorce - and to help the couple build some kind of life together. Edmund Bertram is a good person because ''he'' wants to chew scenery agonizing over the sin and shame of it all and then banish his sister to outer darkness. Hmmm.
22nd Jul '14 2:06:14 PM eowynjedi
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* StoicWoobie: Fanny
* TheyJustDidntCare: The cast of ''Lover's Vows'', with the exception of Mr. Yates, is concerned with the flirtations and betrayals which occur under cover of "rehearsals," rather than any serious attempt to produce the play.

to:

* StoicWoobie: Fanny
* TheyJustDidntCare: The cast of ''Lover's Vows'', with the exception of Mr. Yates, is concerned with the flirtations and betrayals which occur under cover of "rehearsals," rather than any serious attempt to produce the play.
Fanny.



** The first of the early warning signs that Mary Crawford is a BitchInSheepsClothing seem less blatant when looked at through modern eyes: [[ThickerThanWater She makes an]] [[MyCountryRightOrWrong open criticism of her uncle]], a highly disrespectful action in that time.
** Also, Edmund is opposed to the play on many grounds - but one of them is the 'indecency' of his sisters being on stage in front of an audience, even a small family audience, something we would not bat an eye at today. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place, so his objection still ends up justified.

to:

** The first of the early warning signs that Mary Crawford is a BitchInSheepsClothing seem less blatant when looked at through modern eyes: [[ThickerThanWater She makes an]] [[MyCountryRightOrWrong open criticism of her uncle]], uncle]] (a philanderer who moved his mistress into the home after his wife's death) a highly disrespectful action in that time.
** Also, Edmund is opposed to the play on many grounds - but one of them is the 'indecency' of his sisters being on stage in front of an audience, even a small family audience, something we would not bat an eye at today. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place, so his objection still ends up justified.justified by modern standards, but his incredibly deep objections when Tom begins the scheme are still puzzling to modern readers.
22nd Jul '14 8:46:55 AM eowynjedi
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** The first of the early warning signs that Mary Crawford is a BitchInSheepsClothing seem less blatant when looked at through modern eyes: [[ThickerThanWater She makes an]] [[MyCountryRightOrWrong open criticism of her uncle]], a highly disrespectful action in that time. Also, Edmund is opposed to the play on many grounds - but one of them is the 'indecency' of his sisters being on stage in front of an audience, something we would not bat an eye at today.
*** Except that, no matter how normal ''acting'' would be... it is still an excuse for Maria flirting with another boy than her fiance, right in front of him. This is still pretty mean-spirited by many current peoples's standards, and Fanny's disapproval on this ground is completely justified for those who think of it. Doing something close from flirting ''and'' playing on a way that could cause a bad reputation is something that can easily cause BigBrotherInstinct.
** Edmund's absolute ''horror'' over the idea of his sisters acting in a play... a play that is only intended to be a bit of private family fun in their own home. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play that's implied to be bawdy and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place (particularly the engaged Maria and her non-fiance Henry Crawford). But Edmund's emphatic and narratively supported objections to the very notion, long before the mischief starts, come off as mountains out of molehills to modern readers who have probably been in ''multiple'' class plays from the age of six.

to:

** The first of the early warning signs that Mary Crawford is a BitchInSheepsClothing seem less blatant when looked at through modern eyes: [[ThickerThanWater She makes an]] [[MyCountryRightOrWrong open criticism of her uncle]], a highly disrespectful action in that time. time.
**
Also, Edmund is opposed to the play on many grounds - but one of them is the 'indecency' of his sisters being on stage in front of an audience, even a small family audience, something we would not bat an eye at today.
*** Except that, no matter how normal ''acting'' would be... it is still an excuse for Maria flirting with another boy than her fiance, right in front of him. This is still pretty mean-spirited by many current peoples's standards, and Fanny's disapproval on this ground is completely justified for those who think of it. Doing something close from flirting ''and'' playing on a way that could cause a bad reputation is something that can easily cause BigBrotherInstinct.
** Edmund's absolute ''horror'' over the idea of his sisters acting in a play... a play that is only intended to be a bit of private family fun in their own home.
today. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play that's implied to be bawdy and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place (particularly the engaged Maria and her non-fiance Henry Crawford). But Edmund's emphatic and narratively supported objections to the very notion, long before the mischief starts, come off as mountains out of molehills to modern readers who have probably been in ''multiple'' class plays from the age of six.place, so his objection still ends up justified.
18th Jul '14 4:11:18 PM eowynjedi
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*** Except that, no matter how normal ''acting'' would be... it is still an excuse for Maria flirting with another boy than her fiance, right in front of him. This is still pretty mean-spirited by many current peoples's standards, and Fanny's disapproval on this ground is completely justified for those who think of it. Doing something close from flirting ''and'' playing on a way that could cause a bad reputation is something that can easily cause BigBrotherInstinct.

to:

*** Except that, no matter how normal ''acting'' would be... it is still an excuse for Maria flirting with another boy than her fiance, right in front of him. This is still pretty mean-spirited by many current peoples's standards, and Fanny's disapproval on this ground is completely justified for those who think of it. Doing something close from flirting ''and'' playing on a way that could cause a bad reputation is something that can easily cause BigBrotherInstinct.BigBrotherInstinct.
** Edmund's absolute ''horror'' over the idea of his sisters acting in a play... a play that is only intended to be a bit of private family fun in their own home. Granted, the participants then pick a romantic play that's implied to be bawdy and use the rehearsals as an excuse to flirt all over the place (particularly the engaged Maria and her non-fiance Henry Crawford). But Edmund's emphatic and narratively supported objections to the very notion, long before the mischief starts, come off as mountains out of molehills to modern readers who have probably been in ''multiple'' class plays from the age of six.
11th Apr '14 5:07:57 PM 04tele
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** Oh so much between Frances O'Connor and Embeth Davidtz in the 1999 movie.

to:

** Oh so much between Frances O'Connor and Embeth Davidtz in the 1999 movie.movie, at least for as long as Fanny isn't a serious contender for anyone's hand in marriage.
30th Jul '13 2:31:06 PM Umi
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* HilariousInHindsight: Mary Crawford blames Fanny for her brother eloping with Maria Rushworth, saying no harm would have been done if she had just married him, and his relationship with Maria "would have all ended in a regular standing flirtation, in yearly meetings at Sotherton and Everingham." A few decades later, it's like Anne Bronte read that alternate ending, wondered, "WhatIf", and wrote ''TheTenantOfWildfellHall'' to answer the question.

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: Mary Crawford blames Fanny for her brother eloping with Maria Rushworth, saying no harm would have been done if she had just married him, and his relationship with Maria "would have all ended in a regular standing flirtation, in yearly meetings at Sotherton and Everingham." A few decades later, it's like Anne Bronte read that alternate ending, wondered, "WhatIf", and wrote ''TheTenantOfWildfellHall'' ''Literature/TheTenantOfWildfellHall'' to answer the question.
3rd May '13 10:44:55 AM Lale
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* HilariousInHindsight: Mary Crawford blames Fanny for her brother eloping with Maria Rushworth, saying no harm would have been done if she had just married him, and his relationship with Maria "would have all ended in a regular standing flirtation, in yearly meetings at Sotherton and Everingham." A few decades later, it's like Anne Bronte read that alternate ending, wondered, "WhatIf?", and wrote ''TheTenantOfWildfellHall'' to answer the question.

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: Mary Crawford blames Fanny for her brother eloping with Maria Rushworth, saying no harm would have been done if she had just married him, and his relationship with Maria "would have all ended in a regular standing flirtation, in yearly meetings at Sotherton and Everingham." A few decades later, it's like Anne Bronte read that alternate ending, wondered, "WhatIf?", "WhatIf", and wrote ''TheTenantOfWildfellHall'' to answer the question.
3rd May '13 10:44:32 AM Lale
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Added DiffLines:

* HilariousInHindsight: Mary Crawford blames Fanny for her brother eloping with Maria Rushworth, saying no harm would have been done if she had just married him, and his relationship with Maria "would have all ended in a regular standing flirtation, in yearly meetings at Sotherton and Everingham." A few decades later, it's like Anne Bronte read that alternate ending, wondered, "WhatIf?", and wrote ''TheTenantOfWildfellHall'' to answer the question.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.MansfieldPark