History YMMV / Knightfall

* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The MisaimedFandom's reaction; they honestly thought Az-Bats was meant to be the new Batman, instead of a TakeThat at UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks. It's hard to blame them really, though, -- with a run clocking in at over ''50 issues'' long over multiple books, it really did seem like Azbats was the new status quo at the time. According to WordOfGod, this was actually ''[[IntendedAudienceReaction intentional]]'', as DC wanted to remind people why Batman is still important in an age where {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es were all the rage, and thus, Az-Bats was made in a way that made people want to see Bruce take back TheCowl. Needless to say, DC ultimately succeeded in this goal.

* MisaimedMarketing: Hasbro's ''Legends of Batman'' toyline, which was basically a tie-in toyline for this story outside of the {{Elseworld}} theme of the other figures, was marketed towards children. Thankfully, they showed some restraint by not doing figures based on characters like Zsasz or Abattoir. Still, making three figures of Az-Bats for kids and mentioning the events in quite a few of the figures' bios does enter "WTF" territory.

* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: Back in its day, ''Knightfall'' could be seen as the BadassNormal equivalent to ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman'' with the sole exception being that Batman doesn't die. These days, stories like ''Knightfall'' are a bit more commonplace, where the hero encounters a DarkerAndEdgier overpowered supervillain stronger than the rest of his rogues and either gets broken badly or killed. Then afterwards, when the main hero is out of commission, other heroes, whether it's the NinetiesAntiHero or SidekickGraduationsStick character, will struggle to fill in his shoes. Eventually, the main hero gets back on his feet and takes back his mantle. And the previously powerful villain will eventually be beaten by the main hero and undergo VillainDecay, eventually becoming just another regular in the hero's RoguesGallery. Because stories like this are more common across multiple comic book companies in modern times, ''Knightfall'' might not seem too innovative if you're reading it for the first time but back in its day, it was a huge GenreTurningPoint just like ''The Death Of Superman'' and helped provide an early blueprint for the protagonist being beaten by an edgy new villain and staging a heroic comeback after a period of uncertainty and turmoil.

* SeinfeldIsUnfunny: Back in its day, ''Knightfall'' could be seen as the BadassNormal equivalent to ''ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman'' with the sole exception being that Batman doesn't die. These days, stories like ''Knightfall'' are a bit more commonplace, where the hero encounters a DarkerAndEdgier overpowered supervillain stronger than the rest of his rogues and either gets broken badly or killed. Then afterwards, when the main hero is out of commission, other heroes, whether it's the NinetiesAntiHero or SidekickGraduationsStick character, will struggle to fill in his shoes. Eventually, the main hero gets back on his feet and takes back his mantle. And the previously powerful villain will eventually be beaten by the main hero and undergo DiminishingVillainThreat, eventually becoming just another regular in the hero's RoguesGallery. Because stories like this are more common across multiple comic book companies in modern times, ''Knightfall'' might not seem too innovative if you're reading it for the first time but back in its day, it was a huge GenreTurningPoint just like ''The Death Of Superman'' and helped provide an early blueprint for the protagonist being beaten by an edgy new villain and staging a heroic comeback after a period of uncertainty and turmoil.

!!Comicbook:

!!Series:
* CompleteMonster: [[BigBad King Philip IV]], upon [[CrazyJealousGuy learning of his wife Joan's affair with Landry de Lauzon]], sheds any of his good qualities, viciously torturing and beating Joan's maid for information. Later [[TilMurderDoUsPart fatally stabbing the pregnant Joan]], Philip is so bothered by the possibility her and Landry's child may live that he orders a [[WouldHurtAChild purge of infants]] born around that time to ensure he gets the child. Aiming to destroy UsefulNotes/TheKnightsTemplar, Philip grows to tyrannize his family, viewing his daughter as a piece of an alliance to be married off and his son as a tool and assassin. Philip tortures and massacres the Templars, having many burnt alive, his hatred and vengeance consuming any traits of who he once was.
* DesignatedHero: A lot of people felt this way about Landry given that he is sleeping with his best friend's wife. Ultimately addressed in Season 2 when Landry fully admits that his actions were stupid but points out that Gawain's betraying the entire order due to his grudge with Landry means he has no claim to the moral high ground.
* DesignatedVillain: In Season 1 a lot of people felt this way about Phillip given that Landry is committing an egregious betrayal of trust. Subverted in Season 2 as Phillip's insanity causes his sympathetic qualities to dry up
* GrowingTheBeard: The general consensus is that Season 2 is a massive improvement; the plotting is tighter and more focused, the characters are more fleshed out and interesting, and Landry gets called out on his misdeeds. Amusingly, the season coincides with Phillip literally growing [[BeardOfEvil a beard]].
* LargeHam: Creator/MarkHamill chews the scenery with relish.
* MagnificentBastard: [[EvilChancellor William de Nogaret]] is one of the chief powers behind the French throne. Inspiring violence in the capital to convince King Philip to confiscate the property of the Jewish population to strengthen the throne, de Nogaret later also poisons himself in a gambit to manipulate Princess Isabella in eliminating her fiancee Prince Louis of Navarre, assassinating the English ambassador and establishing a match for Isabella with England. Later returning to power and helping to manipulate the fall of UsefulNotes/TheKnightsTemplar, de Nogaret achieves his revenge on the Pope who murdered his parents. Later [[MistreatmentInducedBetrayal tiring of Philip's madness and abuse]], de Nogaret sides with his son Louis to leave Philip to his fate and secure de Nogaret's place as Louis' most loyal follower.
* TheScrappy: Parsifal is this too many; ironically he dies off JUST when he starts becoming useful.
* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: What some people feel about the holy grail plot line, especially since it becomes an AbortedArc.
* UnintentionallyUnsympathetic: Landry's "heroic" conflict in part 1 is how he can sleep with his best friend's wife behind his back (which is also high treason), with absolutely zero remorse for such a massive breach of trust.

* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The MisaimedFandom's reaction; they honestly thought Az-Bats was meant to be the new Batman, instead of a TakeThat at UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks. It's hard to blame them really, though, -- with a run clocking in at over ''50 issues'' long over multiple books, it really did seem like Azbats was the new status quo at the time. According to WordOfGod, this was actually ''[[IntendedAudienceReaction intentional]]'', as DC wanted to remind people ''why'' Batman is still important in an age where {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es were all the rage and were challenging Batman, and thus, Az-Bats was made in a way that made people want to see Bruce take back TheCowl. Needless to say, DC ultimately succeeded.

* TheyChangedItNowItSucks: The MisaimedFandom's reaction; they honestly thought Az-Bats was meant to be the new Batman, instead of a TakeThat at UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks. It's hard to blame them really, though, -- with a run clocking in at over ''50 issues'' long over multiple books, it really did seem like Azbats was the new status quo at the time.

* EnsembleDarkhorse: The [=AzBats=] costume, despite basically existing to show that Batman doesn't ''need'' such a suit, remains tremendously popular among fans who simply appreciate its basic design. It may not make for a good Batman, but it makes for an excellent design.

* CreatorsPet: In the novelization by Denny O'Neil, Bruce - during his journey to regain his capacity for violence - describes Lady Shiva as the ''"sexiest woman alive"''. Possibly crosses over with AuthorAppeal given Shiva was one of O'Neil's Pet Characters, fostered since her post-Crisis appearances in ComicBook/TheQuestion.[[note]]It must be noted that Bruce was also in a position where Shiva was completely naked, and just threatened to kill him, so his line was assuring her, "Yes, you're hot, but I'm not looking for sex, but instruction, so calm down."[[/note]]

* AuthorsSavingThrow: Mr. Freeze was killed off in ''Robin II: The Joker's Wild''. Here, he was resurrected during ''Knightquest'' because ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'' made him popular.

** This arc is ''huge'' in every sense of the word. The bare bones of the arc itself, according to Wiki/{{Wikipedia}}, comprise of material from ''Batman'', ''Detective Comics'', ''Shadow of the Bat'', ''Legends of the Dark Knight'', ''Robin'', ''Catwoman'', ''Showcase'' and ''Justice League Task Force''. And that's not even getting into the supplementary material like the ''Vengeance of Bane'' special or the ''Sword of Azrael'' mini-series, as well as a dozen or so lead-in issues of both ''Batman'' and ''Detective'' that show Batman's fatigue building as well as introducing both Azrael and Bane into the regular cast. And there's the two epilogue series, ''Prodigal'' and ''Troika'', which help the story chalk up over ''one hundred issues'' in total. And it wasn't helped by the fact that DC only packaged "Knightfall" and "[=KnightsEnd=]" in collected editions, but not either side of "Knightquest", though with the new "Knightfall" collection, it's been rectified somewhat: for some odd reason, "Knightfall" included ''Vengeance of Bane'' but left out ''Sword of Azrael'' while "Knightquest" only focused on "The Crusade" as Denny O'Neil considers "The Search" as something of an OldShame.

* IdiotPlot: Had Batman gone after Bane before taking care of all the escaped inmates, Bane’s plan to break him would’ve failed.

* MoralEventHorizon: Jean-Paul letting SerialKiller Abattoir die rather than interrogating him, which doomed the hostage that Abattoir had to be crushed to death. This was the moment when Bruce and everyone else considered Jean-Paul to have gone too far, and which led to Bruce making the decision to take back the mantle of the Bat from him.

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