History YMMV / KingdomHeartsBirthBySleep

20th Mar '18 8:05:47 PM Karxrida
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* ContestedSequel: Many regard this game as one of the better in the series, if not the best, mostly due to its battle system (which is regarded as the most polished, refined, and just plain fun one yet), the interesting story and refreshing three-POV narrative. However, the game received overall lower review scores among critics due to combat-related issues (including the lack of enemy knockback and the lack of combos) and story-related issues that weren't present until this entry in the franchise.

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* ContestedSequel: Many regard this game as one of the better in the series, if not the best, mostly due to its battle system (which is regarded as the most polished, refined, and just plain fun one yet), system, the interesting story and refreshing three-POV narrative. However, the game received overall lower review scores among critics due to combat-related issues (including the lack of enemy knockback and the lack of combos) and story-related issues that weren't present until this entry in the franchise.
20th Mar '18 7:53:02 PM immblueversion
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--> '''Master Xehanort:''' [[spoiler:[[WhamLine Only now have I truly won.]]]]

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--> '''Master --->'''Master Xehanort:''' [[spoiler:[[WhamLine Only now have I truly won.]]]]



* BestBossEver: Ventus gets to make Captain Hook's day a living hell. Several other boss fights stand out - Terra has Braig and is [[spoiler: the only one to actually ''fight'' Master Xehanort]], Aqua has Maleficent Dragon, Captain Gantu, and [[spoiler: Braig]].

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* BestBossEver: Ventus gets to make Captain Hook's day a living hell. Several other boss fights stand out - out: Terra has Braig and is [[spoiler: the only one to actually ''fight'' Master Xehanort]], Aqua has Maleficent Dragon, Captain Gantu, and [[spoiler: Braig]].



* BestLevelEver: While the ''358/2 Days'' version of Neverland had a better theme, the Birth by Sleep version of Neverland is often considered to be the best one - in part because you actually get to go ''to'' Neverland instead of the outskirts.
* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: The fight against the Spirit of the Mirror is this, from Aqua's perspective. She enters the castle looking for the Queen, enters the room with the mirror, immediately gets sucked into it, fights the Spirit, and when she wins, the mirror just says "Queen's gone, nice job beating me, peace out".
* BrokenBase: There's also slight debate on the continuity of the novelization of the game concerning [[spoiler: Vanitas's backstory that paints him in a much more WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds light]]. Some people think that it doesn't make sense when compared to the actual character in the game and enter it under FanDiscontinuity (not hard to do, as the novels are a separate continuity to game canon), others accept it and think it fleshes the character out more. [[spoiler:Then there's fangirls who take it as an excuse for DracoInLeatherPants towards Vanitas]].

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* BestLevelEver: While the ''358/2 Days'' version of Neverland Never Land had a better theme, the Birth ''Birth by Sleep Sleep'' version of Neverland is often considered to be the best one - one, in part because you actually get to go ''to'' Neverland Never Land instead of the outskirts.
* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: The fight against the Spirit of the Mirror is this, from Aqua's perspective. She enters the castle looking for the Queen, enters the room with the mirror, immediately gets sucked into it, fights the Spirit, and when she wins, the mirror just says says, "Queen's gone, nice job beating me, peace out".
* BrokenBase: There's also slight debate on the continuity of the novelization of the game concerning [[spoiler: Vanitas's backstory that paints him in a much more WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds light]]. Some people think that it doesn't make sense when compared to the actual character in the game and enter it under FanDiscontinuity (not hard to do, as the novels are a separate continuity to game canon), while others accept it and think it fleshes the character out more. [[spoiler:Then there's fangirls who take it as an excuse for DracoInLeatherPants towards Vanitas]].



* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: The Command Deck system used in this game, Re:Coded and Dream Drop Distance is highly vulnerable to this in general, but Birth by Sleep is the worst about it due to the ease with which powerful commands can be synthesized early in the game. Most decks will only contain one of four commands: [[GameBreaker Thunder Surge]], [[GrenadeSpam Mine Square]], [[SmartBomb Mega Flare]], and [[HealingFactor Curaga]]. The game has approximately fifty different commands that can be equipped, but all of the others are inferior versions of these four.
* CompleteMonster: Master Xehanort started out with [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]], but then [[ManipulativeBastard uses]] Ventus to [[spoiler: combine him with [[DragonWithAnAgenda Van]][[MagnificentBastard itas]] in order to allow himself access to [[EldritchLocation Kingdom Hearts]], thereby gaining control of all worlds and plunging the multiverse into a second Keyblade War, which was ''[[ApocalypseHow what broke the worlds apart in the first place]]''. The reason? [[ForScience He just wants to see what will happen as a result]]]]. Terra, meanwhile, [[spoiler: is manipulated into succumbing to darkness, so he can provide a suitable new vessel for Xehanort to [[GrandTheftMe steal]]]]. He shows no remorse for his actions, even though his manipulations are responsible for pretty much ''everything'' that is wrong in the ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' universe.

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* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: The Command Deck system used in this game, Re:Coded ''Re:Coded'' and Dream ''Dream Drop Distance Distance'' is highly vulnerable to this in general, but Birth ''Birth by Sleep Sleep'' is the worst about it due to the ease with which powerful commands can be synthesized early in the game. Most decks will only contain one of four commands: [[GameBreaker Thunder Surge]], [[GrenadeSpam Mine Square]], [[SmartBomb Mega Flare]], and [[HealingFactor Curaga]]. The game has approximately fifty different commands that can be equipped, but all of the others are inferior versions of these four.
* CompleteMonster: Master Xehanort started out with [[WellIntentionedExtremist good intentions]], but then [[ManipulativeBastard uses]] Ventus to [[spoiler: combine him with [[DragonWithAnAgenda Van]][[MagnificentBastard itas]] Vanitas in order to allow himself access to [[EldritchLocation Kingdom Hearts]], Hearts, thereby gaining control of all worlds and plunging the multiverse into a second Keyblade War, which was ''[[ApocalypseHow what ''what broke the worlds apart in the first place]]''. place''. The reason? [[ForScience He just wants to see what will happen as a result]]]]. result]]. Terra, meanwhile, [[spoiler: is manipulated into succumbing to darkness, so he can provide a suitable new vessel for Xehanort to [[GrandTheftMe steal]]]].steal]]. He shows no remorse for his actions, even though his manipulations are responsible for pretty much ''everything'' that is wrong in the ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' universe.



* ContestedSequel: Many regard this game as one of the better in the series, if not the best, mostly due to its battle system (which is regarded as the most polished, refined, and just plain fun one yet), the interesting story and refreshing three-POV narrative. However, The game received overall lower review scores among critics due to combat-related issues (including the lack of enemy knockback and the lack of combos) and story-related issues that weren't present until this entry in the franchise.

to:

* ContestedSequel: Many regard this game as one of the better in the series, if not the best, mostly due to its battle system (which is regarded as the most polished, refined, and just plain fun one yet), the interesting story and refreshing three-POV narrative. However, The the game received overall lower review scores among critics due to combat-related issues (including the lack of enemy knockback and the lack of combos) and story-related issues that weren't present until this entry in the franchise.



** A warrior in training who is denied the rank of master that he clamored for so long, was duped by an manipulative bastard into turning himself over to the darkness. Said warrior kills his master, and ultimately ends up confined in a suit of armor. Thus, the tragedy of [[Franchise/StarWars Anakin Skywalker—]] er, Terra! Bonus points for said master being voiced by [[Creator/MarkHamill Anakin's future son.]] The parallels run deeper in hindsight [[WesternAnimation/StarWarsRebels six years later]]: [[spoiler:The warrior confronts his former friend, who tries to reach out to him, and he fights her while she tries to beg him to come back to her. Said friend declares (in some form or another) that she will never leave him, and the battle ends with their friends stranded in a dark world]].

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** A warrior in training who is denied the rank of master that he clamored for so long, was duped by an manipulative bastard into turning himself over to the darkness. Said warrior kills his master, and ultimately ends up confined in a suit of armor. Thus, the tragedy of [[Franchise/StarWars Anakin Skywalker—]] er, Terra! Bonus points for said master being voiced by [[Creator/MarkHamill Anakin's future son.]] son]]. The parallels run deeper in hindsight [[WesternAnimation/StarWarsRebels six years later]]: [[spoiler:The warrior confronts his former friend, who tries to reach out to him, and he fights her while she tries to beg him to come back to her. Said friend declares (in some form or another) that she will never leave him, and the battle ends with their friends stranded in a dark world]].



** The overworld theme to Cinderella's world, Castle of Dreams, is based off of "Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo". It's purely instrumental, but the song can still get stuck in your head.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: [[DracoInLeatherPants Vanitas]] or [[AffectionateNickname Vani]] as many fans say is wildly popular, showing up often in fanart and getting shipped with even Sora or Riku.

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** The overworld theme to Cinderella's world, the Castle of Dreams, is based off of "Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo". It's purely instrumental, but the song can still get stuck in your head.
* EnsembleDarkhorse: [[DracoInLeatherPants Vanitas]] Vanitas]], or [[AffectionateNickname [[FanNickname Vani]] as many fans say say, is wildly popular, showing up often in fanart and getting shipped with even Sora or Riku.



* EvilIsCool: Vanitas.
* EvilIsSexy: Vanitas. [[spoiler:You don't realize this until the end of Ven's story, when he unmasks himself and reveals that he looks ''just like Sora''... except with a more muscular build, black hair, and gold eyes.]]

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* %%* EvilIsCool: Vanitas.
* EvilIsSexy: Vanitas. [[spoiler:You don't realize this until the end of Ven's story, when he unmasks himself and reveals that he looks ''just like Sora''... Sora'', except with a more muscular build, black hair, and gold eyes.]]



** The Command Board is pretty much a game-breaking mechanics. You can start playing Command Board at your first Save Points, and winning a game often levels up your commands several times if not maxing them out, so if you know what to fuse and have the patience to keep playing the board you can get a lot of high-level commands very early in the game.
*** This becomes even more of a game breaker if you go to the Mirage Arena to play, which you can do as soon as you finish your first world. Playing at the Command Board at the Mirage Arena not only nets you all the above advantages, but you'll win hundreds of medals to trade for prizes, including synthesis materials to make fusing commands even better. One such synthesis material is the Abounding Crystal, which attaches abilities like Lucky Lucky and Exp Walker to your commands. The Mirage Arena was nerfed for Final Mix by making the shop items tied to arena level and progress through the game, but that just means Abounding Crystals need to wait until you can go to Radiant Garden, which won't take that long.
*** The Command Board in turn is broken by the Stun command. It only needs one Attack Card to use, and stuns an opponent of your choice for one turn, preventing them from doing anything. The problem is there's nothing to stop you from continuously stunning one player over and over. Stack your deck with Attack Cards and you can immobilize opponents for turns upon turns in a row while you continue to move about the board freely. Also factor in that playing in the Mirage Arena allows you to set the number of opponents to one, and actual playing of the board becomes a formality -- even if you can't keep your opponent stunned forever, they'll fall so far behind they can't hope to catch up.
*** On the Neverland command board, the special tile allows you to move one of your opponents wherever you want them to go. You can dump them in the middle of a damage panel zone, on your own high-level tile, or play eternal keepaway to move them to the other end of the map. It helps that the Neverland map is one of the largest and is mostly just one huge continuous loop with a shortcut through the middle, so moving them around like this can set them back several turns.
*** Then there's the Special command board, where its special tile lets you move your character anywhere on the board instantly. The path to the goal is a loop with two large colored zones on either side, so you can exploit the special tile's powers to easily rack up a zone sweep in this area, an area your opponent will have no choice but to try and pass if they want to get to the goal and out. Further, the board's central crossroads has two loops around it and three special tiles among them, so you can go around the loops to manipulate your movements and land on the special tiles more often.

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** The Command Board is pretty much a game-breaking mechanics. mechanic. You can start playing Command Board it at your first Save Points, Point, and winning a game often levels up your commands several times times, if not maxing them out, so if out. If you know what to fuse and have the patience to keep playing the board board, you can get a lot of high-level commands very early in the game.
*** This becomes even more of a game breaker if you go to the Mirage Arena to play, which you can do as soon as you finish your first world. Playing at the Command Board at the Mirage Arena not only nets you all the above advantages, but you'll win hundreds of medals to trade for prizes, including synthesis materials to make fusing commands even better. One such synthesis material is the Abounding Crystal, which attaches abilities like Lucky Lucky and Exp Walker to your commands. The Mirage Arena was nerfed for Final Mix ''Final Mix'' by making the shop items tied to arena level and progress through the game, but that just means Abounding Crystals need to wait until you can go to Radiant Garden, which won't take that long.
*** The Command Board in turn is broken by the Stun command. It only needs one Attack Card to use, and stuns an opponent of your choice for one turn, preventing them from doing anything. The problem is that there's nothing to stop you from continuously stunning one player over and over. Stack your deck with Attack Cards and you can immobilize opponents for turns upon turns in a row while you continue to move about the board freely. Also factor in that playing in the Mirage Arena allows you to set the number of opponents to one, and actual playing of the board becomes a formality -- even if you can't keep your opponent stunned forever, they'll fall so far behind they can't hope to catch up.
*** On the Neverland command board, Never Land Command Board, the special tile allows you to move one of your opponents wherever you want them to go. You can dump them in the middle of a damage panel zone, on your own high-level tile, or play eternal keepaway to move them to the other end of the map. It helps that the Neverland Never Land map is one of the largest and is mostly just one huge continuous loop with a shortcut through the middle, so moving them around like this can set them back several turns.
*** Then there's the Special command board, Secret Command Board, where its special tile lets you move your character anywhere on the board instantly. The path to the goal is a loop with two large colored zones on either side, so you can exploit the special tile's powers to easily rack up a zone sweep in this area, an area your opponent will have no choice but to try and pass if they want to get to the goal and out. Further, Furthermore, the board's central crossroads crossroad has two loops around it and three special tiles among them, so you can go around the loops to manipulate your movements and land on the special tiles more often.



** Rhythm Mixer is absurdly powerful and easily the best command style in the game. Its normal combos do massive damage, its finisher can single-handedly knock several HP bars off of bosses, and it's activated by using Thunder and Mine commands, which tend to be some of the best commands in the game both for groups and enemies and bosses.
** Firewheel. With it equipped to Aqua, you can quite literally [[BoringButPractical cartwheel your enemies to death]] while taking little damage yourself. Some of the more difficult Mirage Arena challenges can be beaten this way. And you can get it before ever leaving your first world [[note]]All you need to do is meld 2 fully leveled Fires together to get Fira, max out its level and meld it with another fully leveled Fire to get Firaga and max out its level. Buy a Cartwheel and level it up then meld the two together.[[/note]]! On the other hand, Firewheel lacks the invincibility frames granted by Cartwheel, making it a very bad ability against some bosses (such as Vanitas Remnant).

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** Rhythm Mixer is absurdly powerful and easily the best command style Command Style in the game. Its normal combos do massive damage, its finisher can single-handedly knock several HP bars off of bosses, and it's activated by using Thunder and Mine commands, which tend to be some of the best commands in the game both for groups and enemies and bosses.
** Firewheel. With it equipped to Aqua, you can quite literally [[BoringButPractical cartwheel your enemies to death]] while taking little damage yourself. Some of the more difficult Mirage Arena challenges can be beaten this way. And you can get it before ever leaving your first world [[note]]All world![[note]]All you need to do is meld 2 fully leveled Fires together to get Fira, max out its level and meld it with another fully leveled Fire to get Firaga and max out its level. Buy a Cartwheel and level it up then meld the two together.[[/note]]! [[/note]] On the other hand, Firewheel lacks the invincibility frames granted by Cartwheel, making it a very bad ability against some bosses (such as Vanitas Remnant).



** Zack's D-Link, for 2 reasons, both of which go hand-in-hand. Berserk, one of the D-Link's passive abilities, which increases the strength of Critical Hits, and the finisher, Hero's Pride, which is hands down, the best finisher in the entire game. Not only is it very powerful, easily taking multiple bars of health off pretty much any boss other than Unknown, but ''extremely'' difficult for enemies to avoid. Also, using Reprisals when D-Linked with Zack fills the Command Gauge much faster than normal, making it rather easy to spam.

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** Zack's D-Link, for 2 two reasons, both of which go hand-in-hand. Berserk, one of the D-Link's passive abilities, which increases the strength of Critical Hits, and the finisher, Hero's Pride, which is hands down, the best finisher in the entire game. Not only is it very powerful, easily taking multiple bars of health off pretty much any boss other than Unknown, but ''extremely'' difficult for enemies to avoid. Also, using Reprisals when D-Linked with Zack fills the Command Gauge much faster than normal, making it rather easy to spam.



** Master Eraqus is voiced in English by Mark Hamill, who also played Luke Skywalker in ''Film/StarWars''. The ''Star Wars'' movies released after Disney bought Lucasfilm both saw Hamill reprise that role, and took some similar turns to this game. [[spoiler:For instance, Eraqus is eventually betrayed by his student, Terra. Luke is betrayed by his student and nephew, Kylo Ren. Also, a young female protege inherits, in one way or another, the master's old weapon. Are we talking about Rey or Aqua?]] It gets worse in ''Film/TheLastJedi'', [[spoiler:where Luke also considers killing Ben when he fears darkness has overtaken him, and that's what leads to the latter turning on him and his training ground's destruction. The film's climax also has Luke going face-to-face with Kylo Ren which ended up with Luke's death, altough Luke's death was the result of him using his powers instead of being killed by Kylo. At the same time, though, both Rey and Aqua carry on their respective Masters' legacies following their deaths]].

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** Master Eraqus is voiced in English by Mark Hamill, who also played Luke Skywalker in ''Film/StarWars''. The ''Star Wars'' movies released after Disney bought Lucasfilm both saw Hamill reprise that role, and took some similar turns to this game. [[spoiler:For instance, Eraqus is eventually betrayed by his student, Terra. Luke is betrayed by his student and nephew, Kylo Ren. Also, a young female protege inherits, in one way or another, the master's old weapon. Are we talking about Rey or Aqua?]] It gets worse in ''Film/TheLastJedi'', [[spoiler:where Luke also considers killing Ben when he fears darkness has overtaken him, and that's what leads to the latter turning on him and his training ground's destruction. The film's climax also has Luke going face-to-face with Kylo Ren which ended up with Luke's death, altough although Luke's death was the result of him using his powers instead of being killed by Kylo. At the same time, though, both Rey and Aqua carry on their respective Masters' legacies following their deaths]].



** Lea holding [[spoiler: Ven's wooden keyblade, considering that years later [[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsDreamDropDistance he would get his own.]]]]
* IronWoobie: Regardless of the main trio's flaws, hardships or no, ''they all keep trucking''. [[spoiler:And while the end result is largely a disaster, they ''do'' [[SpannerInTheWorks manage to collectively derail most of Master Xehanort's plans]], with the remaining pieces failing into place for Sora & co. to clean up a decade later.]]
* JerkassWoobie: Eraqus. Yes, he's an anti-Darkness KnightTemplar, but it's hard to blame him when [[spoiler:Xehanort uses Darkness to ultimately ruin his and his pupils' lives.]]

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** Lea holding [[spoiler: Ven's wooden keyblade, Keyblade, considering that years later [[VideoGame/KingdomHeartsDreamDropDistance he would get his own.]]]]
* IronWoobie: Regardless of the main trio's flaws, hardships or no, ''they all keep trucking''. [[spoiler:And while the end result is largely a disaster, they ''do'' [[SpannerInTheWorks manage to collectively derail most of Master Xehanort's plans]], with the remaining pieces failing into place for Sora & and co. to clean up a decade later.]]
* JerkassWoobie: Eraqus. Yes, he's an anti-Darkness anti-darkness KnightTemplar, but it's hard to blame him when [[spoiler:Xehanort uses Darkness darkness to ultimately ruin his and his pupils' lives.]]



** Maleficent, who skillfully manipulates Terra and plays Ven and Aqua's emotions like a fiddle. It's telling that neither Terra, Ven ''or'' Aqua are able to actually defeat her, and she ends each of their visits to Enchanted Dominion feeling very self-assured while the heroes are left plagued with angst and doubt over what has transpired.

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** Maleficent, who skillfully manipulates Terra and plays Ven and Aqua's emotions like a fiddle. It's telling that neither Terra, Ven Ven, ''or'' Aqua are able to actually defeat her, and she ends each of their visits to Enchanted Dominion feeling very self-assured while the heroes are left plagued with angst and doubt over what has transpired.



** With the Chi-Blade being phonetically identical to the series staple Keyblade, cutscenes describing how powerful and dangerous the Chi-Blade is can feel a bit flat.

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** With the Chi-Blade χ-blade being phonetically identical to the series staple Keyblade, cutscenes describing how powerful and dangerous the Chi-Blade χ-blade is can feel a bit flat.



** [=PS3=]: unlike the PSP version, there's no Data Install feature, so you have to deal with [[LoadsAndLoadsOfLoading about ten seconds of loading]] each time you enter a Command Style or D-Link as the data is slowly streamed from the Blu-Ray disc. Unlike ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'''s Drive Forms, Command Styles aren't controlled at will, so there's not much you can do to avoid having your timing thrown off by accident.
** [=PS4=]: the load times have been fixed by the [=PS4=]'s automatic full installation of every game, but a handful of new crashes have been introduced. In addition, some new physics issues are caused by the poorly-tested switch to 60fps.

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** [=PS3=]: unlike Unlike the PSP version, there's no Data Install feature, so you have to deal with [[LoadsAndLoadsOfLoading about ten seconds of loading]] each time you enter a Command Style or D-Link as the data is slowly streamed from the Blu-Ray disc. Unlike ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'''s Drive Forms, Command Styles aren't controlled at will, so there's not much you can do to avoid having your timing thrown off by accident.
** [=PS4=]: the The load times have been fixed by the [=PS4=]'s automatic full installation of every game, but a handful of new crashes have been introduced. In addition, some new physics issues are caused by the poorly-tested switch to 60fps.



* SidetrackedByTheGoldSaucer: The Command Board is actually quite fun, as it's basically ''VideoGame/FortuneStreet'' with the serial numbers filed off. Besides being a fun diversion, your commands level up and you can win new abilities, even if you don't win, so it's never a total waste of time. In fact, it's usually better for grinding abilities, and some powerful Commands like Ragnarok can only be attained there, while with luck ones like Firaga can be got there before you enter the first world.

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* SidetrackedByTheGoldSaucer: The Command Board is actually quite fun, as it's basically ''VideoGame/FortuneStreet'' with the serial numbers filed off. Besides being a fun diversion, your commands level up and you can win new abilities, even if you don't win, so it's never a total waste of time. In fact, it's usually better for grinding abilities, and some powerful Commands commands like Ragnarok can only be attained there, while with luck ones like Firaga can be got there before you enter the first world.



** Given the countless examples of DarkIsEvil in the series, Eraqus didn't exactly pull his dislike of Darkness from out of nowhere. That being said, it still doesn't excuse his PoorCommunicationKills.
** During the scene where the Fairy Godmother stops Aqua from LeeroyJenkins-ing the Tremaines, some fans find themselves siding with Aqua. It doesn't help that -- 1 -- the Tremaines eventually cross the MoralEventHorizon and get a KarmicDeath anyway (thus making Aqua look ProperlyParanoid in hindsight), and -- 2 -- the Fairy Godmother's BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil advice has repeatedly suffered from CluelessAesop status throughout the series (e.g., 'If Darkness keeps causing mass suffering, and Light keeps being the best solution, why should I suddenly pull a 180?'). Indeed, near the end of the game, Aqua's initial BlackAndWhiteMorality has only been reinforced by the many DarkIsEvil threats and villains she's encountered (e.g., "What else is Darkness but hate and rage?").
* ThatOneAchievement: The "Maestro" trophy requires that the player obtains a Fantastic score on all Master modes for Ice Cream Beat. Said mini-game is also one of the ''hardest'' of the franchise, especially for players with vision and/or hearing impairment. Thankfully, you only need to unlock it with one character, and isn't required for the three Adventurer trophies.

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** Given the countless examples of DarkIsEvil in the series, Eraqus didn't exactly pull his dislike of Darkness darkness from out of nowhere. That being said, it still doesn't excuse his PoorCommunicationKills.
[[PoorCommunicationKills lack of communication]].
** During the scene where the Fairy Godmother stops Aqua from LeeroyJenkins-ing the Tremaines, some fans find themselves siding with Aqua. It doesn't help that -- 1 -- 1.) the Tremaines eventually cross the MoralEventHorizon and get a KarmicDeath anyway (thus making Aqua look ProperlyParanoid in hindsight), and -- 2 -- 2.) the Fairy Godmother's BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil advice has repeatedly suffered from CluelessAesop status throughout the series (e.g., 'If Darkness darkness keeps causing mass suffering, and Light light keeps being the best solution, why should I suddenly pull a 180?'). Indeed, near the end of the game, Aqua's initial BlackAndWhiteMorality has only been reinforced by the many DarkIsEvil threats and villains she's encountered (e.g., "What else is Darkness darkness but hate and rage?").
* ThatOneAchievement: The "Maestro" trophy requires that the player obtains obtain a Fantastic score on all Master modes for Ice Cream Beat. Said mini-game is also one of the ''hardest'' of the franchise, especially for players with vision and/or hearing impairment. Thankfully, you only need to unlock it with one character, and isn't required for the three Adventurer trophies.



** Whilst the Unknown's entire moveset is basically this, one in particular stands out: Collision Magnet. Simple idea: he jumps high into the air, lashes his sword toward you to pull you up towards him, and then he smacks you back down. The catch is that the lag time from the hit is so long, he's pretty much guaranteed to land and attack before you recover, granting you no chance to dodge his next blow. He can even use the move twice in a row, which is sure to put even a Level 99 character down to 1 HP. And since his next move will be a separate one, it won't trigger Second Chance or Once More. The move's ability to instantly kill you and the difficulty in dodging it is a big factor in what makes the boss so difficult, and ''Final Mix'' noticeably nerfed its stun duration to make it easier to escape from.

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** Whilst While the Unknown's entire moveset is basically this, one in particular stands out: Collision Magnet. Simple idea: he jumps high into the air, lashes his sword toward you to pull you up towards him, and then he smacks you back down. The catch is that the lag time from the hit is so long, he's pretty much guaranteed to land and attack before you recover, granting you no chance to dodge his next blow. He can even use the move twice in a row, which is sure to put even a Level 99 character down to 1 HP. And since his next move will be a separate one, it won't trigger Second Chance or Once More. The move's ability to instantly kill you and the difficulty in dodging it is a big factor in what makes the boss so difficult, and ''Final Mix'' noticeably nerfed its stun duration to make it easier to escape from.



** Quite a few. Among them is the ''first boss'' of Ventus's story. He not only has a knee-jerk spin attack that makes getting close to it a dangerous proposition most of the time but is it even has an attack where it throws off a bunch of fruit that look like fire crackers. There are many more than you would expect. This is not helped by the fact that it's very unlikely that you'll have a Cure spell at this point. You do, however, have D-links, which act as a free heal on activation, and - if you're Terra or Ven - Aqua's D-link specifically, which has Cura right outta the box.
** Zack, particularly the second time Terra fights him.
** Vanitas can be quite hard the first few times you fight him.

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** Quite a few. Among them is the ''first boss'' of Ventus's story. He not only has a knee-jerk spin attack that makes getting close to it a dangerous proposition most of the time time, but is it even has an attack where it throws off a bunch of fruit that look like fire crackers. There are many more than you would expect. This is not helped by the fact that it's very unlikely that you'll have a Cure spell at this point. You do, however, have D-links, which act as a free heal on activation, and - if and--if you're Terra or Ven - Aqua's Ven--Aqua's D-link specifically, which has Cura right outta the box.
** %%** Zack, particularly the second time Terra fights him.
** %%** Vanitas can be quite hard the first few times you fight him.



** [[spoiler:Master Eraqus]] hits ''ridiculously'' hard.

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** %%** [[spoiler:Master Eraqus]] hits ''ridiculously'' hard.



* ThatOneSidequest: Some people found it easier to unlock the secret movie from ''Kingdom Hearts II'' by playing the game on Proud mode. ''Birth By Sleep'' is much, much worse.
* TearJerker: Any of the endings.
* TrueArtIsAngsty: This is without a doubt the darkest ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' game yet, with ''Days'' coming in a close second. The response upon finding out the endings in the Japanese version? That Creator/SquareEnix and Creator/{{Disney}} have finally grown up. Never mind that Square-Enix had made ''darker'' games in the past; even before they merged into Square-Enix, and that Disney has been plenty dark on many occasions.

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* ThatOneSidequest: Some people found it easier to unlock the secret movie from ''Kingdom Hearts II'' by playing the game on Proud mode. ''Birth By by Sleep'' is much, much worse.
* TearJerker: Any of the endings.
* TrueArtIsAngsty: This is without a doubt the darkest ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' game yet, before ''A Fragmentary Passage'', with ''Days'' coming in a close second.closely behind. The response upon finding out the endings in the Japanese version? That Creator/SquareEnix and Creator/{{Disney}} have finally grown up. Never mind that Square-Enix had made ''darker'' games in the past; even before they merged into Square-Enix, Square Enix, and that Disney has been plenty dark on many occasions.



** Sure, Master Xehanort's the polar opposite of a saint, but the narrative still tries to paint him as something of a tragic FallenHero losing sight of his originally good intentions. However, while his Reports seem to succeed at that, his [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist actual]] [[ObviouslyEvil screentime]] makes some fans feel like they might as well have been written by a different character altogether. Not to mention said fans don't buy his intended PetTheDog moment toward [[spoiler:Ven]] on Destiny Islands -- because (1) Xehanort still tortured him to that point in the first place, and (2) Xehanort simply continues abusing and exploiting him after his survival. Said fans just see it as CharacterShilling and InformedKindness, and wonder what Eraqus and Yen Sid ever saw in this lunatic to begin with.
** Terra is supposed to be a conflicted young man whose struggles with his failure to live up to the BlackAndWhiteMorality of his upbringing and his desire to come into his own leads to him being slowly corrupted into darkness and he’s manipulated into Xehanort’s pawn. He’s viewed as a gullible idiot who trusts even the most obvious villains and is constantly making things worse.

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** Sure, Master Xehanort's the polar opposite of a saint, but the narrative still tries to paint him as something of a tragic FallenHero losing sight of his originally good intentions. However, while his Reports seem to succeed at that, his [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist actual]] [[ObviouslyEvil screentime]] makes some fans feel like they might as well have been written by a different character altogether. Not to mention said fans don't buy his intended PetTheDog moment toward [[spoiler:Ven]] Ven on Destiny Islands -- because (1) Xehanort still tortured him to that point in the first place, and (2) Xehanort simply continues abusing and exploiting him after his survival. Said fans just see it as CharacterShilling and InformedKindness, and wonder what Eraqus and Yen Sid ever saw in this lunatic to begin with.
** Terra is supposed to be a conflicted young man whose struggles with his failure to live up to the BlackAndWhiteMorality of his upbringing and his desire to come into his own leads to him being slowly corrupted into darkness and he’s he's manipulated into Xehanort’s pawn. He’s He's viewed as a gullible idiot who trusts even the most obvious villains and is constantly making things worse.



*** The button to open the secret room is just low enough for a child to reach, and the room we see in CoM has a child-sized bed. Riku and Ienzo/Zexion do have things in common. Once we see more of what exactly went down from the apprentices' perspective, then we can judge.
** The novels tint [[spoiler:Vanitas]] to be a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds instead of the unrepentant monster he appears to be in the game. In the novels, any anger he feels results in an Unversed being born from him, and no matter how many times he tries to destroy them, every time he does, he feels an unbearable pain as a result. The cycle continues, and it is hinted that his reason why he wanted to reunite with Ventus was more or less salvation for him. Again, this is only in the novel adaptations; in the game, there is never even a remote hint that [[spoiler:Vanitas]] feels any sort of pain when spawning or re-absorbing Unversed (if anything, he seems to enjoy it when he's seen doing it! Then again, [[CombatSadomasochist maybe he LIKES being hurt.]] Either that or he's done it so many times [[FeelNoPain he no longer reacts to it.]])

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*** The button to open the secret room is just low enough for a child to reach, and the room we see in CoM ''Chain of Memories'' has a child-sized bed. Riku and Ienzo/Zexion do have things in common. Once we see more of what exactly went down from the apprentices' perspective, then we can judge.
** The novels tint [[spoiler:Vanitas]] to be a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds instead of the unrepentant monster he appears to be in the game. In the novels, any anger he feels results in an Unversed being born from him, and no matter how many times he tries to destroy them, every time he does, he feels an unbearable pain each time as a result. The cycle continues, and it is hinted that his reason why he wanted to reunite with Ventus was more or less salvation for him. Again, this is only in the novel adaptations; in the game, there is never even a remote hint that [[spoiler:Vanitas]] feels any sort of pain when spawning or re-absorbing Unversed (if anything, he seems to enjoy it when he's seen doing it! Then again, [[CombatSadomasochist maybe he LIKES being hurt.]] Either that or he's done it so many times [[FeelNoPain he no longer reacts to it.]])
27th Feb '18 6:09:21 AM DensetsuNoKaboom
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Added DiffLines:

* DracoInLeatherPants: Vanitas. Although few fans will argue that his actions in-game aren't evil, there's a lot of support for his WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds characterization from the novelization, as well as the idea that [[spoiler:Master Xehanort]] was an abusive master towards him and his motive [[spoiler:to join with Ventus and become whole again]] was sympathetic in a way. There's even speculation that he'll get a redemption arc later in the series.
26th Feb '18 12:18:55 PM keyblade333
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* IdiotPlot: None of the heroes really seem to have their acts together. Terra is so desperate for approval he ignores the red flags Xehanort is giving off because the old man is willing to flatter him. Aqua insists on treating her friends like children and takes the first hint of Terra’s morals slipping as her cue to stage an intervention, predictably alienating him. Ven is basically wandering the worlds like a tourist. The real prize has to go to their masters though. Eraqus knew full well Xehanort had been “risking an apocalypse for sheer curiousity” in the past and Yen Sid is all but sure Xehanort is behind the Unversed. Neither of them share these facts with any of the trio, with Yen Sid even tasking Terra to find Xehanort yet pointedly not telling him about the likelihood of Xehanort being the BigBad.
25th Feb '18 2:12:55 PM nombretomado
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** PS4: the load times have been fixed by the PS4's automatic full installation of every game, but a handful of new crashes have been introduced. In addition, some new physics issues are caused by the poorly-tested switch to 60fps.

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** PS4: [=PS4=]: the load times have been fixed by the PS4's [=PS4=]'s automatic full installation of every game, but a handful of new crashes have been introduced. In addition, some new physics issues are caused by the poorly-tested switch to 60fps.
21st Feb '18 1:57:45 PM keyblade333
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** Scenes with the trio interacting with younger versions of characters from other games come across as hamfisted attempts to create poignant moments by hurriedly introducing a character and then having Terra/Aqua/Ven basically run off after a few minutes. Ven meeting Lea and Isa is an example, but much more notable are Terra and Aqua meeting [[spoiler:Sora, Riku, and Kairi]]:
*** Aqua meets [[spoiler:Kairi]] in Radiant Garden and saves her from some Unversed. Aqua senses that she holds a great power, and despite ''just'' being shown that this puts her in grave danger, simply leaves her after the fight without taking her to an authority who could protect her.
*** Terra's and Aqua's visits to the [[spoiler:Destiny Islands]] are even clumsier. At separate times they are, apropos of nothing, [[spoiler:pulled from outer space to Destiny Islands by a mysterious force, where they meet two random kindergarten-age children (Sora and Riku). After extremely short interactions which basically boil down to both boys saying they care about their friends, Terra gives Riku the literally world-changing ability to wield a Keyblade while Aqua tells Sora not to let Riku fall to the darkness (to reiterate, ''they're four and five years old''), and then Terra and Aqua abruptly leave. Aqua and Sora's case is particularly ridiculous: Without a Keyblade of his own, how exactly is he supposed to protect his now-Keyblade-wielding friend from the darkness? Hit the darkness with a stick? Not only are the scenes just poorly written, they also only seem to exist to answer why Riku and Sora end up with the Keyblade in the original game, a question no one was actually asking]].
** The many IdiotPlot moments (see above) can make just about everyone impossible to take seriously for some fans. Even Master Xehanort, the smartest guy in the game, can't escape this -- on account of being a DarkIsEvil DevilInPlainSight trying to preach about GrayAndGrayMorality (that's not the kicker, though; no, the kicker is that he thinks the '''''Realm of Light''''' has too much Light and not enough Darkness).
18th Feb '18 12:03:47 PM nombretomado
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** PS3: unlike the PSP version, there's no Data Install feature, so you have to deal with [[LoadsAndLoadsOfLoading about ten seconds of loading]] each time you enter a Command Style or D-Link as the data is slowly streamed from the Blu-Ray disc. Unlike ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'''s Drive Forms, Command Styles aren't controlled at will, so there's not much you can do to avoid having your timing thrown off by accident.

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** PS3: [=PS3=]: unlike the PSP version, there's no Data Install feature, so you have to deal with [[LoadsAndLoadsOfLoading about ten seconds of loading]] each time you enter a Command Style or D-Link as the data is slowly streamed from the Blu-Ray disc. Unlike ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'''s Drive Forms, Command Styles aren't controlled at will, so there's not much you can do to avoid having your timing thrown off by accident.
14th Feb '18 10:45:16 AM Isaac_Heller
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14th Feb '18 10:43:49 AM Isaac_Heller
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* FranchiseOriginalSin: Along with ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts358DaysOver2'', it began the series slide into DarknessInducedAudienceApathy. [[ForegoneConclusion As prequels]], their {{Downer Ending}}s and the darker stories leading up to them were accepted as inevitable, and the heroes were successful enough in thwarting the villains, even enabling their decisive defeats in the main games, [[RayOfHopeEnding that it wasn't for nothing]]. Then ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts3DDreamDropDistance'' pulled a DiabolusExMachina revealing the BigBad was running a XanatosGambit that [[HappyEndingOverride invalidated]] ''[[HappyEndingOverride everything]]'' [[HappyEndingOverride the heroes had done to stop him throughout the franchise]], serving as a tipping point. Later prequels are criticized for adding more darkness such that it's becoming harder to believe the series will have an ending worth it all.

to:

* FranchiseOriginalSin: Along with ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts358DaysOver2'', it began the series slide into DarknessInducedAudienceApathy. [[ForegoneConclusion As prequels]], their {{Downer Ending}}s and the darker stories leading up to them were accepted as inevitable, and the heroes were successful enough in thwarting the villains, even enabling their decisive defeats in the main games, [[RayOfHopeEnding that it wasn't for nothing]]. Then ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts3DDreamDropDistance'' pulled a DiabolusExMachina revealing the BigBad was running a XanatosGambit that [[HappyEndingOverride invalidated]] ''[[HappyEndingOverride everything]]'' [[HappyEndingOverride the heroes had done to stop him throughout the franchise]], serving as a tipping point. Later prequels The later prequels, ''X'' and ''0.2 Birth by Sleep - A Fragmentary Passage'', are criticized for adding more darkness such that it's becoming harder to believe the series will have an ending worth it all.
13th Feb '18 12:56:17 PM urutapu
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*** Terra's and Aqua's visits to the [[spoiler:Destiny Islands]] are even clumsier. At separate times they are, apropos of nothing, [[spoiler:pulled from outer space to Destiny Islands by a mysterious force, where they meet two random kindergarten-age children (Sora and Riku). After extremely short interactions which basically boil down to both boys saying they care about their friends, Terra gives Riku the literally world-changing ability to wield a Keyblade while Aqua tells Sora not to let Riku fall to the darkness (to reiterate, ''they're four and five years old''), and then Terra and Aqua abruptly leave. Aqua and Sora's case is particularly ridiculous: Without a Keyblade of his own, how exactly is he supposed to protect his now-Keyblade-wielding friend from the darkness? Hit the darkness with a stick? Not only are the scenes just poorly written, but they only seem to exist to answer why Riku and Sora end up with the Keyblade in the original game, a question no one was actually asking]].

to:

*** Terra's and Aqua's visits to the [[spoiler:Destiny Islands]] are even clumsier. At separate times they are, apropos of nothing, [[spoiler:pulled from outer space to Destiny Islands by a mysterious force, where they meet two random kindergarten-age children (Sora and Riku). After extremely short interactions which basically boil down to both boys saying they care about their friends, Terra gives Riku the literally world-changing ability to wield a Keyblade while Aqua tells Sora not to let Riku fall to the darkness (to reiterate, ''they're four and five years old''), and then Terra and Aqua abruptly leave. Aqua and Sora's case is particularly ridiculous: Without a Keyblade of his own, how exactly is he supposed to protect his now-Keyblade-wielding friend from the darkness? Hit the darkness with a stick? Not only are the scenes just poorly written, but they also only seem to exist to answer why Riku and Sora end up with the Keyblade in the original game, a question no one was actually asking]].
This list shows the last 10 events of 340. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.KingdomHeartsBirthBySleep