History YMMV / HorusHeresy

3rd Dec '16 8:50:04 PM Mitchz95
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** The Battle of Istvaan V, also known as the Drop Site Massacre. Among its highlights, eleven Legions battling each other eight-against-three, Ferrus Manus getting killed in a duel against possessed!Fulgrim and Vulkan ''sending enemy heavy tanks flying with his hammer''.

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** The Battle of Istvaan Isstvan V, also known as the Drop Site Massacre. Among its highlights, eleven Legions battling each other eight-against-three, Ferrus Manus getting killed in a duel against possessed!Fulgrim and Vulkan ''sending enemy heavy tanks flying with his hammer''.


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** Horus vaults over it when he [[spoiler:uses virus bombs to destroy Isstvan III, killing off its twelve billion inhabitants and at least a third of the loyalist Astartes on the planet]]. To top it off, he [[spoiler:gathers together all the rememberencers on his ship and [[ForcedToWatch forces them to watch the planet die]] before ordering his troops to gun them all down]].
1st Dec '16 10:32:05 PM Steam_Lord
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** On a more meta level, among the series' [[DependingOnTheWriter various writers]], Aaron Dembski-Bowden can be considered a source of this, as he while overall considered a good writer, his interpretation of the emperor as more or less a monster is not popular with most of the fandom and does not line up well with pretty much every other interpretation of him in the franchise, and is as such either [[FanonDiscontinuity ignored]] or considered to be from the perspective of his [[UnreliableNarrator enemies, and as such, not to be trusted]].

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** On a more meta level, among the series' [[DependingOnTheWriter various writers]], Aaron Dembski-Bowden can be considered a source of this, as he while overall considered a good writer, his interpretation of the emperor Emperor as more or less a monster in ''The First Heretic'' and ''The Master of Mankind'' is not popular with most of the fandom and does not line up well with pretty much every other interpretation of him in the franchise, and is as such either [[FanonDiscontinuity ignored]] or considered to be from the perspective of his [[UnreliableNarrator enemies, and as such, not to be trusted]].
1st Dec '16 12:43:49 PM MetalKing1417
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** On a more meta level, among the series' [[DependingOnTheWriter various writers]], Aaron Dembski-Bowden can be considered this, as he while overall considered a good writer, his interpretation of the emperor as more or less a monster is not popular with most of the fandom, and is either [[FanonDiscontinuity ignored]] or considered to be from the perspective of his [[UnreliableNarrator enemies, and as such, not to be trusted]].

to:

** On a more meta level, among the series' [[DependingOnTheWriter various writers]], Aaron Dembski-Bowden can be considered a source of this, as he while overall considered a good writer, his interpretation of the emperor as more or less a monster is not popular with most of the fandom, fandom and does not line up well with pretty much every other interpretation of him in the franchise, and is as such either [[FanonDiscontinuity ignored]] or considered to be from the perspective of his [[UnreliableNarrator enemies, and as such, not to be trusted]].
30th Nov '16 5:52:04 PM MetalKing1417
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** On a more meta level, among the series' [[DependingOnTheWriter various writers]], Aaron Dembski-Bowden can be considered this, as he while overall considered a good writer, his interpretation of the emperor as more or less a monster is not popular with most of the fandom, and is either [[FanonDiscanonuity ignored]] or considered to be from the perspective of his [[UnreliableNarator enemies, and as such, not to be trusted]].

to:

** On a more meta level, among the series' [[DependingOnTheWriter various writers]], Aaron Dembski-Bowden can be considered this, as he while overall considered a good writer, his interpretation of the emperor as more or less a monster is not popular with most of the fandom, and is either [[FanonDiscanonuity [[FanonDiscontinuity ignored]] or considered to be from the perspective of his [[UnreliableNarator [[UnreliableNarrator enemies, and as such, not to be trusted]].
30th Nov '16 5:50:31 PM MetalKing1417
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** On a more meta level, among the series' [[DependingOnTheWriter various writers]], Aaron Dembski-Bowden can be considered this, as he while overall considered a good writer, his interpretation of the emperor as more or less a monster is not popular with most of the fandom, and is either [[FanonDiscanonuity ignored]] or considered to be from the perspective of his [[UnreliableNarator enemies, and as such, not to be trusted]].
12th Nov '16 9:03:06 PM KingClark
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* ComeForTheXStayForTheY: Come for the backstory of ''TabletopGames/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', stay for the sheer amounts of badassery, awesome and CrazyAwesome involved in some books.

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* ComeForTheXStayForTheY: Come for the backstory of ''TabletopGames/{{Warhammer 40000}}'', stay for the sheer amounts of badassery, awesome and CrazyAwesome badassery involved in some books.
31st Oct '16 10:01:07 AM dlchen145
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* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: After this infamous Ultramarines codex plunged them straight into MarySue territory, their Primarch Roboute Guilliman became fans' chief [[TheScrappy Scrappy]]. The books, however, with his commentary on how Codex Astartes is not a bible, his approach to the common man and general {{badass}}ery (punching a man's head off, anyone?), combined the fact that he's the only Primarch to improve the lands he has conquered, did a lot to make him more likable in readers' eyes.

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* RescuedFromTheScrappyHeap: After this infamous Ultramarines codex plunged them straight into MarySue territory, their Primarch Roboute Guilliman became fans' chief [[TheScrappy Scrappy]]. The books, however, with his commentary on how Codex Astartes is not a bible, his approach to the common man and general {{badass}}ery badassery (punching a man's head off, anyone?), combined the fact that he's the only Primarch to improve the lands he has conquered, did a lot to make him more likable in readers' eyes.
22nd Aug '16 10:55:22 AM Kakai
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* HesJustHiding: Many people don't believe that the man [[spoiler:Dorn killed really was Alpharius]], and even those who do are convinced a resurrection scheme is already in place.
2nd Jul '16 8:54:15 PM Angeldeb82
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: The Horus Heresy novels tweak a lot of the various background details from the tabletop.

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: The Horus Heresy novels tweak a lot of the various background details from the tabletop.



*** [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation Or]] a man with too little time, who had to either choose to coddle his adult long lost children or hope they were mature enough to deal with real life without daddy holding their hand?

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*** [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation [[AlternativeCharacterInterpretation Or]] a man with too little time, who had to either choose to coddle his adult long lost children or hope they were mature enough to deal with real life without daddy holding their hand?



** The [[{{Literature/SpaceWolf}} Space Wolves]] are regarded as savage, brutish, even unworthy of being {{Space Marine}}s by their fellows -- in the 41st millennium, they are actually one of the nicer chapters.

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** The [[{{Literature/SpaceWolf}} Space Wolves]] Literature/{{Space Wol|f}}ves are regarded as savage, brutish, even unworthy of being {{Space Marine}}s by their fellows -- in the 41st millennium, they are actually one of the nicer chapters.



** The nature of the Second and Eleventh Primarchs and their so-called Lost Legions is left mysterious in the game in order to encourage players to create their own SpaceMarine chapters. In the Horus Heresy novels, it's stated several times that these two Primarchs and their Legions were wiped out and {{Unperson}}ed ''by'' the Emperor and his other Legions for something, well before Horus was corrupted by Chaos. The precise cause is still a mystery, though.

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** The nature of the Second and Eleventh Primarchs and their so-called Lost Legions is left mysterious in the game in order to encourage players to create their own SpaceMarine chapters. In the Horus Heresy novels, it's stated several times that these two Primarchs and their Legions were wiped out and {{Unperson}}ed [[UnPerson Un-Personed]] ''by'' the Emperor and his other Legions for something, well before Horus was corrupted by Chaos. The precise cause is still a mystery, though.



** In a recent interview, Creator/DanAbnett says they often have to chose between conflicting versions of the same tale when they write it up for inclusion in this series, and that they think of these books as what actually happened, and the versions of the tales we know from earlier works being the versions as filtered through 10,000 years of oral history repetition between the Heresy and Warhammer40k proper.

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** In a recent interview, Creator/DanAbnett says they often have to chose between conflicting versions of the same tale when they write it up for inclusion in this series, and that they think of these books as what actually happened, and the versions of the tales we know from earlier works being the versions as filtered through 10,000 years of oral history repetition between the Heresy and Warhammer40k TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}} proper.



* AwesomeArt: Some of the wraparound covers are impossibly amazing, such as the one for ''[[http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2011/07/Know_No_Fear_huge.jpg Know No Fear]]'' or, more recently, ''[[http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/aa/HHXXXI-Deathfire.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150802102613 Deathfire]]''.

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* AwesomeArt: SugarWiki/AwesomeArt: Some of the wraparound covers are impossibly amazing, such as the one for ''[[http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2011/07/Know_No_Fear_huge.jpg Know No Fear]]'' or, more recently, ''[[http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/a/aa/HHXXXI-Deathfire.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150802102613 Deathfire]]''.



** The Emperor of Mankind is a brilliant genius who was forced to do some terrible things for the good of humanity vs. the Emperor is a whiny, self-absorbed warlord with delusions of infallibility. There's also the moderate part which believes that the Emperor is a good-intentioned, but deeply flawed being, and the people who theorize that [[TakeTheThirdOption the Emperor of Mankind is actually not an ancient magical being, but an artificial human in the vein of the Primarchs created by Malcador, the]] ''[[TakeTheThirdOption true]]'' [[TakeTheThirdOption immortal protector of humanity, only a few hundred years back]].

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** The Emperor of Mankind is a brilliant genius who was forced to do some terrible things for the good of humanity vs. the Emperor is a whiny, self-absorbed warlord with delusions of infallibility. There's also the moderate part which believes that the Emperor is a good-intentioned, but deeply flawed being, and the people who theorize that [[TakeTheThirdOption [[TakeAThirdOption the Emperor of Mankind is actually not an ancient magical being, but an artificial human in the vein of the Primarchs created by Malcador, the]] ''[[TakeTheThirdOption true]]'' [[TakeTheThirdOption ''{{t|akeAThirdOption}}rue'' [[TakeAThirdOption immortal protector of humanity, only a few hundred years back]].



* ComeForTheXStayForTheY: Come for the backstory of ''TabletopGames/{{Warhammer 40 000}}'', stay for the sheer amounts of badassery, awesome and CrazyAwesome involved in some books.

to:

* ComeForTheXStayForTheY: Come for the backstory of ''TabletopGames/{{Warhammer 40 000}}'', 40000}}'', stay for the sheer amounts of badassery, awesome and CrazyAwesome involved in some books.



*** Not only that, but the above plan was considered only a ''partial victory''. The [[spoiler: demon (possibly Tzeentch/one of his agents) had intended for the Space Wolves/Russ and the Thousand Sons/Magnus to destroy one another completely, as they represented the most powerful magical and physical barriers (respectively) to Horus's impending heresy. Instead, the Space Wolves were only bloodied, but the Thousand Sons survived and turned to Chaos.]]

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*** Not only that, but the above plan was considered only a ''partial victory''. The [[spoiler: [[spoiler:The demon (possibly Tzeentch/one of his agents) had intended for the Space Wolves/Russ and the Thousand Sons/Magnus to destroy one another completely, as they represented the most powerful magical and physical barriers (respectively) to Horus's impending heresy. Instead, the Space Wolves were only bloodied, but the Thousand Sons survived and turned to Chaos.]]



* VillainSue: Spear from Nemesis. He's a "Black Pariah" (an Anti-Mage so powerful that he can literally suck the souls out of people, a feat that the Culexus assassins need arcane wargear to do) who has a daemon ''bonded to his skin'', giving him access to AnatomyArsenal and VoluntaryShapeshifting, as well as making him highly resistant to PsychicPowers, AntiMagic ''and'' physical attacks all at the same time. In addition he has the ability to kill any psyker, no matter how powerful, even [[spoiler: [[{{GodEmperor}} The Emperor]]]], if he only samples their DNA. Also add that his description of being more evil as a human being (having killed both his parents) than the demon whose skin he's wearing, and you've got a perfect example of a VillainSue. He's Carnage and the T-1000 in one.
** Justified given that he was created purely to kill [[spoiler:TheEmperor, and Spear spends the book trying to find a drop of the Emperor's blood so he can do just that]].
** To be fair, we don't know he could actually do anything to his intended target. The best we see Spear ever do is kill Space Marines, which isn't exactly unique. It's entirely possible that, upon getting to the Sol system, Spear would have had his brains blown three ways into the warp by the Emperor taking a peek in his direction. This is discussed in the novel.
** Fulgrim never loses. He exterminated the Laer, defeated Eldrad Ulthran (the most powerful non-human psyker in the galaxy), killed an [[GodInHumanForm Avatar of Khaine]] with his bare hands, killed Ferrus Manus, overpowered the Slaaneshi daemon that possessed him[[note]]According to ''The Reflection Crack'd'', he figured it out on his own, while trapped in his portrait, how to steal his body back from the daemon[[/note]], became a daemon prince[[note]]His path to apotheosis was merely the fulfillment of an Eldar prophecy; compare to Perturabo's, who sacrificed the gene-seed of four hundred Imperial Fists after delivering a crushing blow to the Chapter in the Iron Cage[[/note]], mortally wounded Roboute Guilliman, and rules a pleasure planet gifted to him by Slaanesh. The closest he came to a legitimate defeat was when he failed to turn Ferrus to Horus's cause and they handed their asses to each other. Yeah, he's supposed to be the AnthropomorphicPersonification of perfection, but come on.
*** The overpowering of the Slaaneshi daemon is actually kind of not so impressive if you're aware of the ''BlackCrusade'' roleplaying game; the sample Daemon Prince from the corebook is a once-ordinary human woman who deliberately summoned a Keeper of Secrets (as in, the most powerful kind of Slaaneshi daemon) into her body... and ''reverse-possessed it''. Essentially, she not only kept control of her own body, she stole all the daemon's powers and basically ''digested it'' to extend her youth. And she did this not once, but '''three times''' before Slaanesh hirself showed up and turned her into a Daemon Princess as a way of saying, "Damn, but you're one BadassNormal". Next to that, Fulgrim's possession/reversal of the possession is not too impressive.
*** And let's not forget that daemons are lying liars who lie. Who says it's not the daemon lying to itself that it's Fulgrim?
*** Fulgrim's accomplishments aren't really all that impressive, by Primarch standards. Eldrad was relatively young at the time, and an Avatar of Khaine? By comparison, Magnus the Red has defeated Titans on at least two separate occasions, something Fulgrim required fully falling to Slaanesh to accomplish (And by Lucius' words, only Magnus before had the power to do such things). Sanguinius felled two greater daemons in quick succession. Lion El'Jonson defeated Kairos the Fateweaver in single combat. He required the full backing of the Laer Blade to defeat Ferrus Manus in their second confrontation. Not to mention, in Aurelian, Lorgar strikes the Daemon Fulgrim down in fury, and proceeds to psychically dominate the creature that had possessed his body, toying with it casually. Considering we then later see that even from the other side of the galaxy, Lorgar is no match for Magnus as a psyker, it is no stretch to assume the Cyclops could do the same. In the ending, it is implied that Lorgar will help Fulgrim regain control of his body, so it is unlikely Fulgrim did so alone.
*** It is implied in the original source (Index Astartes: Ultramarines) that Fulgrim's battle with Guilliman was a MutualKill, the difference being that Fulgrim can only be banished (the setting is iffy on whether it is possible to permanently destroy daemons), whilst Guilliman, having not sold his soul to the Ruinous Powers, can't.
25th Apr '16 8:01:58 PM Steam_Lord
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** The Interex are either a superior moral alternative to the imperium, or they were too weak to survive the horrors of 30k, let alone 40k.
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