History YMMV / FireEmblemTellius

31st Oct '16 12:00:35 AM ishibear
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** Going outside of the ''Fire Emblem'' universe, Ike is also shipped with his Smash-mate [[Franchise/MetalGear Solid Snake]] quite a bit. Just like Ike, Snake is a RatedMForManly character with a very similar ambiguous sexuality and HoYay situation, so fans took it to its logical conclusion. Another ship for Ike is [[VideoGame/Kid Icarus Pit]].

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** Going outside of the ''Fire Emblem'' universe, Ike is also shipped with his Smash-mate [[Franchise/MetalGear Solid Snake]] quite a bit. Just like Ike, Snake is a RatedMForManly character with a very similar ambiguous sexuality and HoYay situation, so fans took it to its logical conclusion. Another ship for Ike is [[VideoGame/Kid Icarus Pit]].situation.
30th Oct '16 11:56:38 PM ishibear
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** Going outside of the ''Fire Emblem'' universe, Ike is also shipped with his Smash-mate [[Franchise/MetalGear Solid Snake]] quite a bit. Just like Ike, Snake is a RatedMForManly character with a very similar ambiguous sexuality and HoYay situation, so fans took it to its logical conclusion. Another ship for Ike is [[Franchise/Kid Icarus Pit]].

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** Going outside of the ''Fire Emblem'' universe, Ike is also shipped with his Smash-mate [[Franchise/MetalGear Solid Snake]] quite a bit. Just like Ike, Snake is a RatedMForManly character with a very similar ambiguous sexuality and HoYay situation, so fans took it to its logical conclusion. Another ship for Ike is [[Franchise/Kid [[VideoGame/Kid Icarus Pit]].
30th Oct '16 11:55:18 PM ishibear
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** Soren. Some fans love him for his cold and snarky personality, and it helps that he's both [[{{Bishonen}} pretty]] and powerful and has a well-developed backstory. Others take issue with his {{Wimpification}} in ''Radiant Dawn'', and dislike the amount of HoYay he has with Ike, believing it to be [[PanderingToTheBase pandering to a]] [[YaoiFangirls specific crowd]] to the expense of others (as noted under VocalMinority below). In some Japanese circles, he even has the derisive {{Fan Nickname}}s of "homo" and "Homorio"[[note]]based on "Senerio", his Japanese name[[/note]].

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** Soren. Some fans love him for his cold and snarky personality, and it helps that he's both [[{{Bishonen}} pretty]] and powerful and has a well-developed tragic backstory. Others take issue with his {{Wimpification}} in ''Radiant Dawn'', and dislike the amount of HoYay he has with Ike, believing it to be [[PanderingToTheBase pandering to a]] [[YaoiFangirls specific crowd]] to the expense of others (as noted under VocalMinority below). In some Japanese circles, he even has the derisive {{Fan Nickname}}s of "homo" and "Homorio"[[note]]based on "Senerio", his Japanese name[[/note]].



* ContestedSequel: Let's just say that there are many ''Path of Radiance'' fans who were '''not''' pleased by the changes ''Radiant Dawn'' made to TheVerse; like revealing that [[spoiler:Ashera]] was an OmnicidalManiac who was EvilAllAlong, [[spoiler: Yune, the Dark God inside the medallion]] was GoodAllAlong, [[ShipSinking cutting the Ike/Elincia subtext out entirely]] while cranking up his HoYay with Soren and Ranulf (rumor has it, in an attempt to [[PanderingToTheBase pander]] to the YaoiFangirl crowd), [[{{Flanderization}} flanderising]] a good number of characters (the {{Wimpification}} suffered by Soren is a particular peeve), and having a ''very'' [[FlatCharacter basic]] [[StaticCharacter Support system]] that robs potentially interesting characters (like Nolan or Giffca) of backstory and CharacterDevelopment. On the other hand, ''Radiant Dawn''[='=]s fans argue that many of these narrative choices are, while still cliche, at least ''different'' cliches from the rest of the series and provide for some interesting plot twists and moral issues. Gameplay-wise, it was either a refreshingly experimental entry in the series with uncompromising challenge, or a mess full of FakeDifficulty, [[ScrappyMechanic opaque or ill-conceived mechanics]], and [[TierInducedScrappy uselessly weak characters]].

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* ContestedSequel: Let's just say that there are many ''Path of Radiance'' fans who were '''not''' pleased by the changes ''Radiant Dawn'' made to TheVerse; like revealing that [[spoiler:Ashera]] was an OmnicidalManiac who was EvilAllAlong, [[spoiler: Yune, the Dark God inside the medallion]] was GoodAllAlong, [[ShipSinking cutting the Ike/Elincia subtext out entirely]] while cranking up his HoYay with Soren and Ranulf (rumor has it, in an attempt to [[PanderingToTheBase pander]] to the YaoiFangirl crowd), [[{{Flanderization}} flanderising]] a good number of characters (the {{Wimpification}} suffered by Soren is a particular peeve), and having a ''very'' [[FlatCharacter basic]] [[StaticCharacter Support system]] that robs potentially interesting characters (like Nolan or Giffca) of backstory and CharacterDevelopment. On the other hand, ''Radiant Dawn''[='=]s fans argue that many of these narrative choices are, while still cliche, at least ''different'' cliches from the rest of the series and provide for some interesting plot twists and moral issues. Gameplay-wise, it was either a refreshingly experimental entry in the series with uncompromising challenge, or a mess full of FakeDifficulty, [[ScrappyMechanic opaque or ill-conceived mechanics]], and [[TierInducedScrappy uselessly weak characters]].



** Going outside of the ''Fire Emblem'' universe, Ike is also shipped with his Smash-mate [[Franchise/MetalGear Solid Snake]] quite a bit. Just like Ike, Snake is a RatedMForManly character with a very similar ambiguous sexuality and HoYay situation, so fans took it to its logical conclusion.

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** Going outside of the ''Fire Emblem'' universe, Ike is also shipped with his Smash-mate [[Franchise/MetalGear Solid Snake]] quite a bit. Just like Ike, Snake is a RatedMForManly character with a very similar ambiguous sexuality and HoYay situation, so fans took it to its logical conclusion. Another ship for Ike is [[Franchise/Kid Icarus Pit]].



* CrossoverShip: Inexplicably, there is a devoted following for Soren and [[Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda Link]].



** While Geoffrey/Elincia and Lucia/Bastian are reasonably popular, there's a good number of fans who prefer Elincia/Lucia. [[InternetBackdraft And that's not even going into the bitter Ike/Elincia shippers]].
** Ike/Soren is a very prevalent ship in the fandom thanks to the HoYay between both characters, while Ike/Lethe is surprisingly common among fans who dislike slash.

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** While Geoffrey/Elincia and Lucia/Bastian are reasonably popular, there's a good number of fans who prefer Elincia/Lucia. [[InternetBackdraft And that's not even going into the bitter Ike/Elincia shippers]].\n** Ike/Soren is a very prevalent ship in the fandom thanks to the HoYay between both characters, while Ike/Lethe is surprisingly common among fans who dislike slash.



** Among the males, most prominently Ike with his all-male support endings, especially Soren with whom he has loads of subtext in both games. And Ranulf too, to a lesser extent.

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** Among the males, most prominently Ike with his all-male support endings, especially Soren with whom he has loads of subtext in both games. And Ranulf too, to a lesser extent.and Ranulf.



* JerkassWoobie: Soren combines this with StoicWoobie. He's rude, harsh, brutally honest, and doesn't care for anyone, but he has a damn good reason to be this way.
** Considering his backstory, Shinon may well be this.



* {{Moe}}: Mist, Ilyana, Astrid, Amy, Micaiah, and Sanaki. A lot of people think this of Rhys as well. Soren ''could'' be, but that might just be [[{{Wimpification}} something else]].

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* {{Moe}}: Mist, Ilyana, Astrid, Amy, Micaiah, and Sanaki. A lot of people think this of Rhys as well. Soren ''could'' be, but that might just be [[{{Wimpification}} something else]].



* RelationshipWritingFumble: A possible explanation, a la ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'', for why Ike seems to be [[ShipTease so much closer]] to Soren and Ranulf than to any of the female characters, as none of his dialogue or interactions with at least Ranulf contains any particularly blatant romantic subtext, and little of it on his side in the case of Soren. [[spoiler:Ike's descendant Priam in ''Awakening'' suggests, if only mildly so, that this may be the case.]]

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* RelationshipWritingFumble: A possible explanation, a la ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII'', for why Ike seems to be [[ShipTease so much closer]] to Soren and Ranulf than to any of the female characters, as none of his dialogue or interactions with at least Ranulf contains any particularly blatant romantic subtext, and little of it on his side in the case of Soren.characters. [[spoiler:Ike's descendant Priam in ''Awakening'' suggests, if only mildly so, that this may be the case.]]



** ''Radiant Dawn'' is derisively known as a [[http://fe-according-to-japan.tumblr.com/post/56435492659/tellian-trivia "fujioshi game" in some Japanese circles]] and is accused of pandering to YaoiFangirls at the expense of other fans' enjoyment, due to its ShipSinking with female characters such as Elincia and HoYay subtext with male characters such as Soren. However, most fans don't hold such an extreme view of the game.

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** ''Radiant Dawn'' is derisively known as a [[http://fe-according-to-japan.tumblr.com/post/56435492659/tellian-trivia "fujioshi game" in some Japanese circles]] and is accused of pandering to YaoiFangirls at the expense of other fans' enjoyment, due to its ShipSinking with female characters such as Elincia and HoYay subtext with male characters such as Ranulf or Soren. However, most fans don't hold such an extreme view of the game.
23rd Oct '16 1:58:24 PM dlchen145
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** Soren. Some fans love him for his cold and snarky personality, and it helps that he's both [[{{Bishonen}} pretty]] and [[{{Badass}} powerful]] and has a well-developed backstory. Others take issue with his {{Wimpification}} in ''Radiant Dawn'', and dislike the amount of HoYay he has with Ike, believing it to be [[PanderingToTheBase pandering to a]] [[YaoiFangirls specific crowd]] to the expense of others (as noted under VocalMinority below). In some Japanese circles, he even has the derisive {{Fan Nickname}}s of "homo" and "Homorio"[[note]]based on "Senerio", his Japanese name[[/note]].

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** Soren. Some fans love him for his cold and snarky personality, and it helps that he's both [[{{Bishonen}} pretty]] and [[{{Badass}} powerful]] powerful and has a well-developed backstory. Others take issue with his {{Wimpification}} in ''Radiant Dawn'', and dislike the amount of HoYay he has with Ike, believing it to be [[PanderingToTheBase pandering to a]] [[YaoiFangirls specific crowd]] to the expense of others (as noted under VocalMinority below). In some Japanese circles, he even has the derisive {{Fan Nickname}}s of "homo" and "Homorio"[[note]]based on "Senerio", his Japanese name[[/note]].
19th Sep '16 7:27:12 PM CyrenaPeleman
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* NarmCharm: Sigrun is retelling the day of Sanaki's coronation when she was just a small child. Tanith adds that she tripped 5 times over her cape, and Sigrun Lampshades that isn't appropriate for her to say right now as Sanaki is asking them [[spoiler: if her not being the true apostle changes their opinion of her.]] While this may get a laugh, it's still touching because it's [[DrillSargeantNasty Tanith]] and [[RoyalsWhoActuallyDoSomething Sanaki.]]

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* NarmCharm: Sigrun is retelling the day of Sanaki's coronation when she was just a small child. Tanith adds that she tripped 5 times over her cape, and Sigrun Lampshades says that isn't appropriate for her to say right now as Sanaki is asking them [[spoiler: if her not being the true apostle changes their opinion of her.]] While this may get a laugh, it's still touching because it's [[DrillSargeantNasty [[DrillSergeantNasty Tanith]] and [[RoyalsWhoActuallyDoSomething Sanaki.]]



** This was worse in the previous game where Skills were LostForever for no good reason if it was taken them off a character. This means you couldn't take them off characters you don't use, or try out a Skill on another and put in someone else.

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** This was worse in the previous game where Skills were LostForever for no good reason if it was taken them off a character. This means you couldn't take them off characters you don't use, or try out a Skill on another and put in someone else.character.
19th Sep '16 7:19:33 PM CyrenaPeleman
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** This was worse in the previous game where Skills were LostForever for no good reason if it was taken them off a character. This means you couldn't take them off characters you don't use, or try out a Skill on another and put in someone else.
17th Sep '16 12:32:53 PM Darthrai
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* SacredCow: Much like ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'', fans of the Tellius games will valiantly defend them from any sort of criticism, right down to accusations of [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny being outdated]] and ''Radiant Dawn''[='=]s controversial plot points, and will often attempt to justify the games selling poorly, citing arbitrary reasons for why the allegedly "inferior" ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' sold much better and saved the series. Likewise, some fans act like it's a cardinal sin to dislike Ike himself, although his ''Radiant Dawn'' depiction has some detractors.

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* SacredCow: Much like ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'', ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaTheWindWaker'' and ''VideoGame/PokemonBlack2AndWhite2'', fans of the Tellius games will valiantly defend them from any sort of criticism, right down to accusations of [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny being outdated]] and ''Radiant Dawn''[='=]s controversial plot points, and will often attempt to justify the games selling poorly, citing arbitrary reasons for why the allegedly "inferior" ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' sold much better and saved the series. Likewise, some fans act like it's a cardinal sin to dislike Ike himself, although his ''Radiant Dawn'' depiction has some detractors.
16th Sep '16 6:54:20 PM RaustBD
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** ''Micaiah''. This girl has some of the most dedicated haters in fandom, and the people who love her will rabidly defend her to the death. Then there's the less vocal third "we like her, but we can see why people have issues with her" group which is sadly drowned out by both the rabid haters and rabid defenders alike.

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** ''Micaiah''. This girl has some of the most dedicated haters in fandom, and fandom (it wasn't until more than eight years later that [[VideoGame/FireEmblemFates Nohr!Corrin]] came around to challenge her status as the most hated lord in the franchise), but the people who love her will rabidly defend her to the death. Then there's the less vocal third "we like her, but we can see why people have issues with her" group which is sadly drowned out by both the rabid haters and rabid defenders alike.
15th Sep '16 4:22:23 PM spiritsunami
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** Strictly from a gameplay standpoint (she's fairly well-liked as a character), Ilyana in ''Radiant Dawn''. Due to showing up fairly early in the Dawn Brigade's scenario and then joining Ike's group early in Part 3, she has ''the'' most availability of any unit in the game, and is also the only one who can reach SS-rank in Thunder Magic, allowing her to use Rexbolt. Given that one of the toughest bosses in the endgame is a dragon and is therefore weak to thunder magic, that makes her pretty awesome. That said, she'll probably still be ''slightly'' weaker than Soren when she first joins Ike's group even if you use her liberally in Part 1...and given that the Dawn Brigade's chapters in Part 3 allow you to field ''every unit available to them'', giving experience to a unit that ''won't'' be available to them in Part 3 will leave them at a severe disadvantage. Which means it might be wiser to just bench her whenever possible during part 1. Which...means she'll still be a first-tier unit at a point where your strongest units are nearing third tier, and is therefore ''horrible''.



** Other places people notice LesYay include but are not limited to Jill/Mist, Jill/Lethe, and Tanith/Sigrun.

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** Other places people notice LesYay include but are not limited to Jill/Mist, Jill/Lethe, Tanith/Sigrun, and Tanith/Sigrun.Nephenee/Calill.



** Leonardo, Meg, and Fiona; Leonardo is an early-game archer with awful base states and poor growths in strength and speed, Meg is an armor unit who comes in very underlevelled with poor growths in strength and defense, and despite attempting to fill the niche of a "speedy armor" her speed cap is ''lower'' than Gatrie's (a character with '''far''' better Strength and Defence) and Fiona comes in late in Chapter 1 with hilariously bad base stats that would be fitting for a level 1 unit. Fiona is especially bad, as by the point you get her the enemies can double and kill her in one round, while the remaining maps of Chapter 1 either restrict her movement (eliminating her main advantage of being a mounted unit) or don't allow you to use her at all (and when you go back to the Dawn Brigade in Part 3, the first mission there also heavily restricts her movement), so it's impossible without an extreme amount of coddling and resources to make Fiona remotely useable (and it's not like she has amazing growths and stat caps to make it remotely worthwhile). All three are also [[FlatCharacter flat characters]] who get barely if any characterisation, so they have no chance to win people over in spite of their terrible performance. The few people who do like them tends to be for how hilariously bad they are.

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** Leonardo, Meg, and Fiona; Leonardo is an early-game archer with awful base states and poor growths in strength and speed, Meg is an armor unit who comes in very underlevelled with poor growths in strength and defense, and despite attempting to fill the niche of a "speedy armor" her speed cap is ''lower'' than Gatrie's (a character with '''far''' better Strength and Defence) and Fiona comes in late in Chapter Part 1 with hilariously bad base stats that would be fitting for a level 1 unit. Fiona is especially bad, as by the point you get her the enemies can double and kill her in one round, while the remaining maps of Chapter 1 either restrict her movement (eliminating her main advantage of being a mounted unit) or don't allow you to use her at all (and when you go back to the Dawn Brigade in Part 3, the first mission there also heavily restricts her movement), so it's impossible without an extreme amount of coddling and resources to make Fiona remotely useable usable (and it's not like she has amazing growths and stat caps to make it remotely worthwhile). All three are also [[FlatCharacter flat characters]] who get barely if any characterisation, so they have no chance to win people over in spite of their terrible performance. The few people who do like them tends to be for how hilariously bad they are.



*** It also doesn't help that you get them at the same time that you get Lethe and Mordecai back, units with identical classes and either outright better stats (Lethe vs. Lyre) or roughly even stats at lower levels (Mordecai vs. Kyza; Mordecai has the advantage in HP, Strength, Luck, and Defense while Kyza has the advantage in Magic, Speed, Skill, and Resistance, but Mordecai is only level 16 if he didn't gain any levels in part 2 while Kyza is level 18 and [[DumpStat Magic is more or less useless to any laguz that isn't a heron or a white dragon]].)



** Stefan and Shinon in ''Path of Radiance'' are infamous for being two of the hardest characters to recruit in the series. The first is pure GuideDangIt: you need to move one of two specific characters to one specific, out-of-the-way tile in a ''desert chapter'', with only one ''extremely'' vague hint to the whole ordeal. (The mention of "strange figures wandering the desert" in a base conversation. Yeah, that's helpful.) Even more annoyingly, if you miss him you miss both the S rank sword and one of the Occult Scrolls. For Shinon, you need to talk to him with Rolf, an Archer who'll be vey weak if untrained, a fact only hinted at if you check the "conversations" section of the Unit menu. After this, you have to have Ike ''defeat'' him, which is normally [[FinalDeath the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you want to do to a recruitable enemy]]. And he doesn't join until the very end of the chapter, meaning a player could restart after Ike beats him, thinking he's gone for good.

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** Stefan and Shinon in ''Path of Radiance'' are infamous for being two of the hardest characters to recruit in the series. The first is pure GuideDangIt: you need to move one of two specific characters to one specific, out-of-the-way tile in a ''desert chapter'', with only one ''extremely'' vague hint to the whole ordeal. (The mention of "strange figures wandering the desert" in a base conversation. Yeah, that's helpful.) Even more annoyingly, if you miss him you miss both the S rank sword and one of the Occult Scrolls. For Shinon, you need to talk to him with Rolf, an Archer who'll be vey very weak if untrained, a fact only hinted at if you check the "conversations" section of the Unit menu. After this, you have to have Ike ''defeat'' him, which is normally [[FinalDeath the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you want to do to a recruitable enemy]]. And he doesn't join until the very end of the chapter, meaning a player could restart after Ike beats him, thinking he's gone for good.



* VindicatedByHistory: Although both games were for the most part always well regarded among most hardcore fans of the franchise, their low sales made it feel like their memory wasn't going to last very long. Fast-forward a decade, two stellar appearances in ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' and an espectacular franchise comeback thanks to ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' later, and now it's more broadly praised than it ever was. There is no shortage of people who think these two games are the highlight of the entire franchise, especially among the games released in Western territories. The narrative is particularly well regarded thanks to the elaborated JigSawPuzzlePlot spanning two games.

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* VindicatedByHistory: Although both games were for the most part always well regarded among most hardcore fans of the franchise, their low sales made it feel like their memory wasn't going to last very long. Fast-forward a decade, two stellar appearances in ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'' and an espectacular a spectacular franchise comeback thanks to ''VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening'' later, and now it's more broadly praised than it ever was. There is no shortage of people who think these two games are the highlight of the entire franchise, especially among the games released in Western territories. The narrative is particularly well regarded thanks to the elaborated JigSawPuzzlePlot spanning two games.
11th Sep '16 5:47:08 AM BigKlingy
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Was Deghinsea [[spoiler: siding with Ashera against the party a case of SuicideByCop as a way to atone for his past actions? Some of his post-battle dialogue would imply him to be a DeathSeeker]] and it's one of the few ways his actions there would make any sense.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.FireEmblemTellius