History YMMV / Circleverse

* FanNickname: The four main kids are known as "the goats", due to Tamora Pierce's constant in-story habit referring to them as kids and then elaborating with some form of the phrase "street slang for child, actually means baby goat".

** Tris thinking that monarchy is preferably to any other forms of leadership in ''Shatterglass''. Granted, the only alternative she knows of is a "democracy" where only rich people have a say, bit still.
* VillainHasAPoint: Dimiter fer Holm, a noble who first attempts to force Sandry into marriage during ''The Will of the Empress''. He is a horrible person and a sore loser, but when he points out that the great mages at the Empress' court could easily bind Sandry's magic powers, he is right. [[spoiler:Two of them succeed at it during two separate abduction attempts, and in both cases (especially the first one) Sandry needs her friends' help to escape.]]
* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotForKids: It ''is'' for kids. The protagonists start at age 10 and the style of the writing is well suited to older children, but maybe not ones who can't handle dark subject matter. Even in the first series (arguably the lightest), rape is mentioned and there are quite a few gruesome deaths.

*** ''Briar's Book'' actually seems to acknowledge it, in a subtle way. The whole plague only comes about because a mage of ''far'' lower standing than even Yarrun could hardly afford either food or rent. As such, she reluctantly dumps some magical waste instead of paying the cost for proper disposal, accidentally releasing a magical disease on the land.

** The crew of Third Ship Kisubo were Daja's immediate family, and she's the sole survivor, but other Kisubo ships with other family members exist, and relatives too old or young to go to sea are on the land. But even when her ''trangshi'' status is revoked she doesn't so much as think of contacting them.

* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotForKids: Even though the protagonists start at age 10, this is ''not'' something you should show your ten-year-old. Even in the first series (arguably the lightest), rape is explicitly mentioned and there are quite a few gruesome deaths. And yet some libraries still put it in the kids' section.

** During the final battle in ''The Will of the Empress'', [[WorthyOpponent Ishabal Ladyhammer]] taunts Sandry, Briar and Daja with "You cannot be so foolish as to think the powers of the world might allow you to pursue your own selfish desires all your days. Wake up, children. It is time to learn to live in the real world". The characters are not inclined to listen (especially as she is the one who [[spoiler: cursed Tris]]) and dismiss her as haughty, [[SillyRabbitCynicismIsForLosers too cynical]] and ignorant of PowerOfFriendship, and narratively, [[spoiler: them subsequently beating Ishabal and (temporarily) depowering her]] seems to prove them right, painting her as a classical ThisCannotBe villain. But ultimately her taunting is correct: no matter how powerful the Circle is, they cannot take on the whole Namorn Empire. Sandry [[spoiler: being forced to sign over her lands, thus guaranteeing that the money from them stays in Namorn]], is indicative of this.

** ''Battle Magic'' also has some controversy over the far more prominent role played by gods and spirits, which many fans accuse of clashing with the setting as portrayed up until then, and feeling more like something that belongs in the Tortall series. Some of them also call UnfortunateImplications on this increased exoticism being played in an analogue to southeast Asian countries.

** ''[[Literature/TheCircleOpens Street Magic]]'': [[AristocratsAreEvil Lady Zenadia doa Attaneh]] is a noblewoman [[EvilOldFolks in the senior years of her life]] who, finding nothing in her regal life stimulates her anymore, turns to lording over a gang full of street orphans [[ForTheEvulz for her own amusement]]. Zenadia wins the loyalty of the children with money and clean clothing, dubs them the "Vipers", then sends them off to start causing [[MobWar gang wars]] regardless of how many people die in the process. Those she deems lacking "discipline" or who otherwise bore her are strangled to death by her mute assassin and used as fertilizer for her sapient plants, who gloat about how well fed they are. Zenadia elects to [[BetterToDieThanBeKilled kill herself rather than face justice]] at the end of the novel, dismissing all the orphan children she's murdered as tools without value.

* WhatMeasureIsANonBadass: Although Pierce goes out of her way to deconstruct the RealWomenDontWearDresses trope, that doesn't stop fans from believing in it. Sandry, being the "girliest" protagonist (because TextileWorkIsFeminine, she loves fashion, and she's a countess), tends to get a lot of flak from the readers who don't think she's as cool as the other three despite her own ''numerous'' displays of badassery.

** Frostpine relates part of his backstory in ''Daja's Book''. He was born to a poor family, but a local mage could sense the magic in him and paid his parents so he could siphon it away. They lived well after that. Frostpine grew up with the sense that he was somehow incomplete, gravitating towards the forge anyway, and when the mage died when he was fifteen the magic returning to him almost killed him. When he recovered metal sang to him and his tools melted, the smith kicked him out, his life was in ruins and his parents told him they'd sold his magic for ''his'' good.

* HarsherInHindsight: Just try reading ''Briar's Book'' in 2022 and see how many times you get chills from how much the book resembles the UsefulNotes/COVID19Pandemic - a brand new disease is discovered, nobody knows where it came from or how to fight it, and it's a race against time to find a vaccine (and thank god, they do). Even worse is how overwhelmed the book's healers are, complete with ''Rosethorn'', of all people, breaking down from overwork and feeling useless in the face of the unknown disease and nearly succumbing to the disease herself. It's a heartbreaking foreshadowing of exactly what happened to RealLife medical personnel during the UsefulNotes/COVID19Pandemic, as hospitals and medical centers were overrun with patients, and doctors and nurses also caught the disease and died, despite all known precautions, increasing the strain on the already-overwhelmed medical systems.

** During the final battle in ''The Will of the Empress'', [[WorthyOpponent Ishabal Ladyhammer]] taunts Sandry, Briar and Daja with "You cannot be so foolish as to think the powers of the world might allow you to pursue your own selfish desires all your days. Wake up, children. It is time to learn to live in the real world". The characters are not inclined to listen (especially as she is the one who [[spoiler: cursed Tris]]) and dismiss her as haughty, [[SillyRabbitCynicismIsForLosers too cynical]] and ignorant of PowerOfFriendship, and narratively, [[spoiler: them subsequently beating Ishabal and (temporarily) depowering her]] seems to prove them right, painting her as a classical ThisCannotBe villain. But ultimately her taunting is correct: no matter how powerful the Circle is, they cannot take on the whole Namorn Empire. Sandry [[spoiler: being forced to sign over her lands, thus guaranteeing that the money from them stays in Namorn]] is indicative of this.

** During the final battle in ''The Will of the Empress'', [[WorthyOpponent Ishabal Ladyhammer]] taunts Sandry, Briar and Daja with "You cannot be so foolish as to think the powers of the world might allow you to pursue your own selfish desires all your days. Wake up, children. It is time to learn to live in the real world". The characters are not inclined to listen (especially as she is the one who [[spoiler: cursed Tris]] and dismiss her as haughty, [[SillyRabbitCynicismIsForLosers too cynical]] and ignorant of PowerOfFriendship, and narratively, [[spoiler: them subsequently beating Ishabal and (temporarily) depowering her]] seems to prove them right, painting her as a classical ThisCannotBe villain. But ultimately her taunting is correct: no matter how powerful the Circle is, they cannot take on the whole Namorn Empire. Sandry [[spoiler: being forced to sign over her lands, thus guaranteeing that the money from them stays in Namorn]] is indicative of this.

** Briar meets with the ''mutabir'', or head of the City Watch, during ''Street Magic''. We're supposed to hate him, as does Briar, for acting so heartless about the problems of Chammur, and for wanting to use Evvy as a spy in Lady Zenadia's house. The thing is, everything the ''mutabir'' says is absolutely correct. For all Briar and Rosethorn may have saved one girl from poverty, there are thousands more they didn't, and no-one can save them all. If he gets rid of the current gangs, more will rise to take their places, as has always happened. He really can't pin a few murders of beggars and street orphans on one of the most powerful people in the city. And he is genuinely trying to clean up the corruption in the city; while using a child as a double agent in such a dangerous household is morally reprehensible, from his position it is the only way he can nail Zenadia for her crimes.

*** In her defense, her calling it bitterness came from him saying she and her friends were "fortunate" and she's remembering how each of them had their lives ruined by their magic/in the process of discovering it. Plus, the people who get famous for without reasons aren't to blame for the system anymore than the people who unfairly lack acclaim, so bitterly resenting the famous mages is pretty petty.

** Also, her backstory. She survived the smallpox epidemic because her nurse locked her in a small room, after walking into find her parents dead bodies in their bedroom, alone, in the dark after her oil lamp ran out of oil. She manages to discover her latent magical powers, but by the time she gets out of the room, everyone in the house is dead.

* FanNickname: The four main kids are known as "the goats", due to Tamora Pierce's constant in-story habit referring to them as such and then elaborating with some form of the phrase "street slang for child, actually means baby goat".

** ''[[Literature/TheCircleOpens Street Magic]]'': [[AristocratsAreEvil Lady Zenadia doa Attaneh]] is a noblewoman [[EvilOldFolks in the senior years of her life]] who, finding nothing more in her regal life stimulates her anymore, turns to lording over a gang full of street orphans [[ForTheEvulz for her own amusement]]. Zenadia wins the loyalty of the children with money and clean clothing, dubs them the "Vipers", then sends them off to start causing [[MobWar gang wars]] regardless of how many people die in the process. Those she deems lacking "discipline" or who otherwise bore her are strangled to death by her mute assassin and used as fertilizer for her sapient plants, who gloat about how well fed they are. Zenadia elects to [[BetterToDieThanBeKilled kill herself rather than face justice]] at the end of the novel, dismissing all the orphan children she's murdered as tools without value.

** Some fans really weren't happy with the serious divisions in the group from ''Literature/TheWillOfTheEmpress'', as a large part of the series' appeal is the friendship between the four, and no matter how well justified, seeing them at odds is no fun to read about. Also, some fans take issue with Briar having gone through a major life-changing event between books that goes largely unexplained until two books later, making him harder to empathize with.

** ''Literature/TheCircleOpens'' has some criticism from fans due to the lack of interaction between the four Circle members that made the first series so much fun. Others argue that the characters it adds are just as interesting in their own right and the books open up the world of Emelan similar to the Tortall series.

* BaseBreakingCharacter: Evvy, sort of. While she remains a popular character, fans are also getting a bit restless about her being a SpotlightStealingSquad and apparently the only one of the five students from the ''Opens'' series that Pierce has any interest in exploring further, to the point that she has her own first-person-narrated book, the only first-person-narrated book the author has ''ever'' done.

* BaseBreakingCharacter: Evvy, sort of. While she remains a popular character, fans are also getting a bit restless about her being a SpotlightStealingSquad and apparently the only one of the five students from the Opens series that Pierce has any interest in exploring further, to the point that she has her own first person narrated book, the only one the author has ''ever'' done.

* AngstWhatAngst: Gudruny Iarun. She spent decades married to a physically and verbally abusive husband (who she never wanted to marry in the first place), was callously refused help by Sandry's mother twice, and finally snuck into Sandry's house and hiding in a desperate attempt to have her marriage annulled. She's described then as looking permanently worn-out and disheveled, naturally, and one would expect that suffering many years of DomesticAbuse would leave her with many emotional issues — nope. As soon as Sandry hires her as a maid, Gudruny turns into a motherly mentor with no apparent ill effects from her mistreatment, with no mention of her having ever visited a mind-healer.[[note]]From conversations with Briar, it's implied they can magically treat mental disorders.[[/note]]

** ''Tris' Book'' teases us with her getting to confront her family for abandoning her, after discovering the truth about her magic, but the story about her father being about to die was a lie. And she never does get to do it.

** Evvy, who was sold as a slave because a mere girl took up room and food that could have gone to her brothers. She actually watched her mother sell her. Then she ended up in the middle of a war-zone, suffered heavy PTSD, and [[spoiler:lost her oldest friends, her cats]].

** Tris. She was shuffled from relative to relative, who all hated her because of her unidentified magical powers. She was mercilessly bullied by school-mates and family for years. When she went to Winding Circle she was able to find safety, but outside of her adopted siblings, parents and teachers, she doesn't seem to have much luck. Apparently her every attempt at dating failed due to people making fun of her due to her looks, and practically every other mage hates her due to her incredible powers. She can't even use her magic for a traditional career, [[BlessedWithSuck since the things prospective employers would want her for would involve ruining weather systems and/or killing huge numbers of people]].